Toradora! - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[BetoJR]

In Minorin's defense, she was pretty shook up after seeing Taiga in that state. She is her best friend, after all. And she was actually shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that her best friend cared way more for Ryuji than anyone could have thought. That's quite a lot to have on your shoulders...

[typhonsentra]

I just don't understand what you mean by happy. Where are you getting the idea she was acting happy from?

[Nosauz]

well hey, male leads in general are pretty useless, ba da pa! thank you everyone I'll be back stage signing auto graphs, oh wait they actually are. Unfortunately this type of man might actually exist, though I highly doubt he'll ever procreate in the a in vivo situation. At first Ryuuji is billed as your typical male student, except as the show progresses he turns into the biggest bitch ever, he's indecisive, and unreliable, it just makes sense that he wouldn't chase after minorin. Why because he's an idiot. Though this was a contrived situation, it feel ooc for him to acutally get what Minorin says, because he basically ignores all the attraction between the two of them, and suddenly his thick skull is able to interpret the rejection, come on.

[Nukerjsr]

I believe that while she did need to break off with Ryuuji, she doesn't exactly understand that how the break up scenario is going to affect Ryuuji.

If she wants to make Taiga happy, then shouldn't she want to take this whole thing in a different direction? The way she pulled it off could leave Ryuuji in a multiple set of attitudes from having a breakdown like with Taiga or being depressed. And while yes, we do not know what would of happened from a serious confession, I believe it would of been better if she done it that way. I can understand the breakup would be hard but changing to the facade during this incredibly emotional moment feels unnecessary.

[animeboy009]

hey just wanted to say, this was a good ep liked it....and that in the end when you see all the chs. and what they are doing at the end, with ami's scene, i think the person behind her looks like he has ryuji's suit (22:04) maybe the one he exchange the bear suit for?

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

well hey, male leads in general are pretty useless, ba da pa! thank you everyone I'll be back stage signing auto graphs, oh wait they actually are. Unfortunately this type of man might actually exist, though I highly doubt he'll ever procreate in the a in vivo situation. At first Ryuuji is billed as your typical male student, except as the show progresses he turns into the biggest bitch ever, he's indecisive, and unreliable, it just makes sense that he wouldn't chase after minorin. Why because he's an idiot. Though this was a contrived situation, it feel ooc for him to actually get what Minorin says, because he basically ignores all the attraction between the two of them, and suddenly his thick skull is able to interpret the rejection, come on.

In hindsight, Ryuuji didn't really want to go get Minori, he wanted to stay with Taiga...so maybe his not chasing after Minori means he's over his crush (in which case they could somehow reconcile later on) and realized he likes Taiga more

[Nukerjsr]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

well hey, male leads in general are pretty useless, ba da pa! thank you everyone I'll be back stage signing auto graphs, oh wait they actually are. Unfortunately this type of man might actually exist, though I highly doubt he'll ever procreate in the a in vivo situation. At first Ryuuji is billed as your typical male student, except as the show progresses he turns into the biggest bitch ever, he's indecisive, and unreliable, it just makes sense that he wouldn't chase after minorin. Why because he's an idiot. Though this was a contrived situation, it feel ooc for him to acutally get what Minorin says, because he basically ignores all the attraction between the two of them, and suddenly his thick skull is able to interpret the rejection, come on.

Actually, Ryuuji is GOOD compared to most harem lead males. I just find it a shame because he started out well and had a manly climax...but now he's starting to fall into the train as the other the male leaders where they become oblivious and kind of become an afterthought compared to the girls of the show.

[typhonsentra]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

In hindsight, Ryuuji didn't really want to go get Minori, he wanted to stay with Taiga...so maybe his not chasing after Minori means he's over his crush (in which case they could somehow reconcile later on) and realized he likes Taiga more

If he was over his crush he wouldn't of taken the rejection as hard as he did.

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

If he was over his crush he wouldn't of taken the rejection as hard as he did.

He seems more confused to me than crushed...guess we'll find out in the next episode^^

[puppygod]

Originally Posted by Nosauz

From my pov, i feel like many of the characters continue to sacrifice, and in the end you get a taiga x ryuji ending which is not bad, but the way its achieved is pretty brutal. If two people's happiness costs five other people theirs I would opt to not have that happiness.

What five? I see Minori and maybe Ami... That's two. Who else?

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by puppygod

What five? I see Minori and maybe Ami... That's two. Who else?

All the Taiga fans at school nah just kidding,take it as a manner of speech, 2=5.

[Waking_Dreamer]

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

Maybe not sternly, emotionally. Like, she should still show care for Ryuuji throughout this whole thing. We know that Taiga is the reason she isn't going to hook up with Ryuuji, but shouldn't Ryuuji's feelings be put into play? Shouldn't she say something along the lines like "Hey, I don't want to be with you but I still really care for you." After all, they are supposed to be friends. I don't want this characters to grow isolated.

I think youre asking a bit too much. I mean why is it all this responsibility being put on Minori? Why is it that Ryuuji needs to look after Taiga while Minori has to look after them BOTH?

Ami got it right...why are they playing house...cause in the end its put them in this situation...

Granted, she did have to hurt him to get the message across, but it was just executed in a bad manner (imo). The emotional shift she has where she acts happy during that ONE scene and was depressed the entire time feels awkward. It feels like the way that Minori pulled it off that she almost gave the impression like she never cared. I always felt like Minori DID want to be Ryuuji's friend because she was the kind of person who thrived off other people's happiness. Especially if that involves making your friend's lovers feel comfortable too.

I think part of that just applies to how Ryuuji takes it. I mean, he doesn't get ANY of the little hints and pieces of advices given to him. Yet Minori says that she doesn't want to find ghosts and aliens and he suddenly gets it.

The whole episode makes both characters just look really bad.

Too much. Too much expectations for one person....

What relationship did they have when she talked to Ryuuji about UFOs/Ghosts so long ago..friends right? As friends she told him she didnt want a boyfriend...in a very Minori way. The whole UFOs conversation has only ever been between him and her. To them it is personal...therefore it means something.

Anyway, when does it ever help when someone says, I dont love you anymore but we can still be friends... I mean seriously it doesnt change the magnitude of your heart break at all...

Think about it, everything revolves around Taiga...Ryuuji puts her happiness as first priority and so does Minori at great hurt to herself - yet she's still getting flack because she not doing enough or making so many mistakes.

Im surprised no ones even slightly pissed off that Taiga is off chasing make believe Santas contemplating how she will always be alone - when in fact she has real guardian angels like Minori and Ryuuji putting their happiness aside for her sake.

oh but lets poke at Minori because she making people feel sad...LMAO

Im just saying...thats another way to look at it...

EDIT: I dont hate Taiga...but like Nosauz said there is so much sacrifice for a TaigaxRyuuji end. The other characters are treated pretty bad and people go, oh Taiga's crying..

[nor4d]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

He seems more confused to me than crushed...

The last second Takasus's standing does not look like confused to me either

Originally Posted by puppygod

What five? I see Minori and maybe Ami... That's two. Who else?

I can count more. Look deeply.

[Nukerjsr]

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

I think youre asking a bit too much. I mean why is it all this responsibility being put on Minori? Why is it that Ryuuji needs to look after Taiga while Minori has to look after them BOTH?

Ami got it right...why are they playing house...cause in the end its put them in this situation...

Minori chose to go through with the whole scenario of breaking up with Ryuuji, I just believe that she should of taken Ryuuji's feelings into consideration because those same feelings are going to directly affect his future relationship with Taiga. The way I see it is that Ryuuji's and Taiga's happiness are linked.

Originally Posted by Waking_Dreamer

Too much. Too much expectations for one person....

What relationship did they have when she talked to Ryuuji about UFOs/Ghosts so long ago..friends right?

As friends she told him she didnt want a boyfriend...in a very Minori way. The whole UFOs conversation has only ever been between him and her. To them it is personal...therefore it means something.

Anyway, when does it ever help when someone says, I dont love you anymore but we can still be friends... I mean seriously it doesnt change the magnitude of your heart break at all...

Think about it, everything revolves around Taiga...Ryuuji puts her happiness as first priority and so does Minori at great hurt to herself - yet she's still getting flack because she not doing enough or making so many mistakes.

Im surprised no ones even slightly pissed off that Taiga is off chasing make believe Santas contemplating how she will always be alone - when in fact she has real guardian angels like Minori and Ryuuji putting their happiness aside for her sake.

oh but lets poke at Minori because she making people feel sad...LMAO

Im just saying...thats another way to look at it...

The thing I don't like about the scene is how Minori has to tell Ryuuji all of this in her "Minorin" way. In the beach-house it made sense, but in this particular moment it doesn't.

I think the subtlety of it could of worked if Ryuuji DID NOT figure it out. But he did, which contradicts how he didn't pick up every other piece of subtlety in this episode.

I honestly believed that if she broke up with him in a serious way, then it would of been a much gentler blow. I just believe that the way this break off was performed is completely going to change the the Ryuuji/Taiga/Minori atmosphere by shoving all of the pressure onto Ryuuji.

I'm more of concerned how this whole thing is going to be played off because Ryuuji's character has been treated like CRAP during this whole arc and it feels like it's going to rub off on the rest of the series. Taiga isn't the center of this whole thing, even though she's been treated like it. It would of been nice to see a little bit of Minori/Ryuuji development before the break up so that there's some mutual understanding.

[nor4d]

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

I honestly believed that if she broke up with him in a serious way, then it would of been a much gentler blow. I just believe that the way this break off was performed is completely going to change the the Ryuuji/Taiga/Minori atmosphere by shoving all of the pressure onto Ryuuji.

This atmosphere was boiling for some time before it happend i guess. Look before when Minori told about not talking with Ryuuji to much last times. It will be hard, especially when heard the Ryuuji talked about hearing Minori's voice. (last seconds of 19ep) That means ONLY that he really love her and probably that Taiga wont tell him anything about last night. Maybe she knew that Minori rejected Takasu before she told him about her feelings. Who knows..

But what i surelly agree is the part about the pressure... Unfortunately it goes to Ryuuji mainly now.

Originally Posted by Nukerjsr

I'm more of concerned how this whole thing is going to be played off because Ryuuji's character has been treated like CRAP during this whole arc and it feels like it's going to rub off on the rest of the series. Taiga isn't the center of this whole thing, even though she's been treated like it. It would of been nice to see a little bit of Minori/Ryuuji development before the break up so that there's some mutual understanding.

Agree.
But what he could do? I hope he will find a better way that i can imagine.

[Sixth]

Pretty nice episode.

Taiga is trying her hardest to supress those feeling yet, it the end, her heart unable to supressed it any long and she crying unconsciously ....A very nice scene IMO.

and Kitamura, The man know no shame..and I have to respect him for being that.

and It seem Ryuji care Taiga more than his own affair in the end.

[Caster13]

The best laid plans and all that.

I'm going to resonate what Vexx said earlier about timing and chance. Throughout the series, it seems nobody gets together like they expect to. Trying to come up with a mastermind plan to hook up Ryuuji and Minorin is a sure fire way to doom yourself from the start.

Even the simplest of plans such as sticking around at a party and waiting for Minorin to show up gets messed up when Ryuuji suddenly can't bear (<_<) the thought of Taiga being alone.

The saddest thing, though, is that Taiga tried so hard. She put all of her effort into the Christmas party to create the perfect place for Ryuuji and Minorin to meet one another. And the wrench that brings the gears to a screeching halt is her own feelings.

There's only one thing to do after the machinations crumble though: see what's still standing and rebuild from there.

[Led_Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Caster13

The saddest thing, though, is that Taiga tried so hard. She put all of her effort into the Christmas party to create the perfect place for Ryuuji and Minorin to meet one another

I think that Taiga make a situation so perfect, that she realices the things that are coming, Ryuuji and Minori becoming boyfriends, she will no longer can be to ryuuji side, and that she don't want to leave his side, and she stop repressing her own fellings for Ryuuji...

[LoweGear]

Freight and shipping asides...

I really haven't felt this WAFFY about a Christmas-themed episode since I saw the 5-episode AMG OVA almost a decade ago. Think it was when Ami and Taiga sang that Christmas song that made me incredibly warm and fuzzy inside...

Damn, I want that song RIGHT NOW

Also, I don't get how anyone can say Ami got shafted, when she gets an entire 3 minutes in the spotlight singing an insert song with Taiga. There are worse cases of shafting out there >_>

[Traece]

I thought it was a pretty cute episode. We got to see a surprise singing duo at the Christmas party, and there was a very adorable moment between Ryuuji and Taiga. Plus, it was also nice to see Taiga beginning to both realize and admit her feelings for Ryuuji to herself. Minorin was under the suspicion that Taiga was in love with Ryuuji and it kept her away, but in the end it seems her misunderstandings weren't so misunderstood.

It's a bit of a sad thing though. Minorin not getting what she wants isn't 'too' bad, I'm sure she'll get over it if Taiga is happy. She's not much for selfishness it seems. Ami though, well Ami is going to miss out. I feel a bit bad for her, but she's a good sport for sending Ryuuji along to Taiga's side to help her out and be with her (at least for a little while). On the happy side though, Kihara is free to date Kitamura full with all his glorious nudity (Eek...).

I'm surprised people are putting blame on people for this situation. Nobody is really to blame, it was a team effort. Taiga left to be alone, being scared that Minorin and Ryuuji becoming a couple would leave her out of the loop (and she's not entirely wrong to think that either people, it does happen). Ami in a way sent Ryuuji off to be there for Taiga. Most importantly, Minorin falsely suspected Taiga loving Ryuuji (as I said before) and thus avoided him, then found out she really was in love with him (although Taiga may not realize it herself quite yet). Ryuuji is just sort of along for the ride, he's the one being pushed around and lead in to all this stuff, and in the end he prioritized his very special friendship over a chance to be with a girl he's in love with for some odd reason. I'd rather make my friends feel better, and then seek love. Better than seeking love and leaving your friends to their own sad ways.