Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[superzombie23]

I feel so bad for yoshida-san. I'm looking forward to her climax moment where she has to make the decision. I hope the director doesn't screw this scene up, cuz it will make me cry if they do it right; scenes that make me cry are good I haven't read any novels or anything so I'm just hoping for something good.

[MidoriHiME]

I absolutely ADORE the new animation for the opening, but the tune itself is...I don't know. I don't like it, really. I do like the ending, however - it sounds like a mix of KOTOKO's Ketsudan no Entrance and Mami Kawada's Triangle.

As for the episode itself? Well, I can't wait for Kazumi to use that item. I do felt it dragged a bit, but it looks like there's plenty of action in store, so I'm OK with that for now. It'll be interesting to see Yuuji start fighting in battle, for sure.

[DX HBK]

Originally Posted by lua thien

From a human POV, that's morally wrong.

From a Tomogara's POV... well, that's a restaurant for them.

Better yet, the death row inmates are about to be killed so why not take their PoE instead?

Honestly, to think that there would be Tomogara that would breed humans in the same manner as livestock, they are gonna need a lot of farms to surpass the demand.

Well, humans have a sense of morals that center only around thmeselves. I guess none of them could accept that they aren't at the top of the food pyramid with Tomogara and Rinne running around.

Originally Posted by Freeter

Spoiler for 16:

LMAO @ Pheles' proposition to Yoshida.

"Nobody cares about you, so when you realize how worthless you are and that you'll never beat that loli even with your massive tits, use this cross to summon me and I'll win Sakai over.

The only catch is that you'll die, but you're a weakling anyway and nobody notices you so it's no biggie. Kthxbye"

That has to be the most ass-backwards proposition I have ever heard

Aww, they're trying to make us care about Fumina's absen*YAWN*...next.

Poor Ike...he's become the laughing stock of the series. I wonder if they'll still include his confession scene to Yoshida in the snow that was in the first OP, though I can't take him seriously anymore so that'll certainly put a damper on things.

Just like with the first Shana, I prefer the old OP/ED to the new one. Yuji looks kind of ridiculous standing there with everyone holding out Blutsauger like that

Kazumi could just trick Satou or Ike to use that Hougu in her place. But she's not as effective to the plot as she used to be. Nonetheless, it's tempting for me to think of jumping into the episode and smash Pheles on the head with a steel chair due to her "the world revolves around me" nature.

Well, even if no one really cares about her, Konoe Fumina's memory will live on. Someone should have videotaped Konoe during the festival march and they might just see the wizard attire walking on its own?

[Proto]

Remember the photo Hirai Yukari took with Sakai and Ike during ep 2, and how she disappeared from it after her torch burned out. Clothes included

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by UPR

The way I see it Tanaka is being a complete wimp and baby. Im not looking forward to the next ep. After this he should never appear again. He just disrupts the plot development.

No..

He's doing what he should be doing, or at least what Margery wants him to do. Get away while you still can. He's not part of this world.

That's not being a baby, that's being smart.

See this is what Kazumi should be doing. As Pheles noted she has no part of this world. I mean yeah woman we know there's a huge gap between you and yuji and it's the size of 10 football fields. Just give it up already woman.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Kazumi could just trick Satou or Ike to use that Hougu in her place. But she's not as effective to the plot as she used to be. Nonetheless, it's tempting for me to think of jumping into the episode and smash Pheles on the head with a steel chair due to her "the world revolves around me" nature.

That's rather in sync with what Wilhelmina told everyone about her: That she was just a self-absorbed Tomogara until Johan came into the picture. Now that he's out again, I would add 'Obsessed' to that 'self-absorbed'. Besides, most of the powerful Tomogara we actually saw were 'exceedingly confident' in themselves, so as to speak. Merihim was one example, as was the one who could use paper soldiers (Can't remember his name, darn it.)

Well, even if no one really cares about her, Konoe Fumina's memory will live on. Someone should have videotaped Konoe during the festival march and they might just see the wizard attire walking on its own?

Just to add on to what Protoman said, I'm assuming that the faux vessel works in a similar way to that of a Torch, that once it disappears after fulfilling it's purpose, it's existence is considered erased to the normal people.

The way I see it Tanaka is being a complete wimp and baby. Im not looking forward to the next ep. After this he should never appear again. He just disrupts the plot development.

After seeing the person you like getting embroiled in this shit and fretting over his decision to help out Margery or to get away from the world makes you a wimp? Riiight.

[HashiriyaR32]

Yuuji swinging Blutsauger around in the OP sort of reminds me of a section of the first OP for Bleach.

[qtipbrit]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

That's rather in sync with what Wilhelmina told everyone about her: That she was just a self-absorbed Tomogara until Johan came into the picture. Now that he's out again, I would add 'Obsessed' to that 'self-absorbed'. Besides, most of the powerful Tomogara we actually saw were 'exceedingly confident' in themselves, so as to speak. Merihim was one example, as was the one who could use paper soldiers (Can't remember his name, darn it.)

I believe he was Organ, or something similar.
I found that scene to be quite amusing, and I actually had to rewatch it to confirm that she had really told Kazumi what I had read. Haha, wow.

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

Just to add on to what Protoman said, I'm assuming that the faux vessel works in a similar way to that of a Torch, that once it disappears after fulfilling it's purpose, it's existence is considered erased to the normal people.

Regarding this, I haven't quite grasped how one would remember an erased torch or Konoe-san. Yuji apparently remembered the original Yukari Hirai and Konoe-san because he was a torch himself (or because he was a mystes.), but how are Kazumi, Eita, Keisaku able to? (I'm not quite sure there was a comment on Ike, he probably didn't though.)
The only conjecture I have is that Kazumi was in possession of a hougo at the time, and Eita and Keisaku had Margery's spells and such. Gah, confusing.

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

After seeing the person you like getting embroiled in this shit and fretting over his decision to help out Margery or to get away from the world makes you a wimp? Riiight.

Of course, Sekai and Kotonoha handled their problems well in School Days, so Eita, who has his manly pride as a delinquent to consider, should have done the same. [/sarcasm] in case you couldn't tell.

Originally Posted by HashiriyaR32

Yuuji swinging Blutsauger around in the OP sort of reminds me of a section of the first OP for Bleach.

That's nice. It also reminds me of a scene in the OP of Rurouni Kenshin, which looks very, very similar. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that a lot of animators probably watch anime (seeing as they decided to go into this line of work) and possibly draw inspiration from other series?
Naw.

[Whitemoon648]

You guys are all being naive. As if Yoshida-san would ever die. I mean come on. Its shakugan no shana we talking about. A show that is hafly Romance-drama related. If they want to ever get rid of Yoshida ( if they ever do), it would be when they want to end Shakugan no shana series all togher.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by qtipbrit92

Regarding this, I haven't quite grasped how one would remember an erased torch or Konoe-san. Yuji apparently remembered the original Yukari Hirai and Konoe-san because he was a torch himself (or because he was a mystes.), but how are Kazumi, Eita, Keisaku able to? (I'm not quite sure there was a comment on Ike, he probably didn't though.)
The only conjecture I have is that Kazumi was in possession of a hougo at the time, and Eita and Keisaku had Margery's spells and such. Gah, confusing.

Probably has something to do with how they are able to move in a Fuzetsu, or else it could that those who were active in one and knew what happened in there were able to remember. Of course, we could always wait for someone more well-informed to answer this question.

Of course, Sekai and Kotonoha handled their problems well in School Days, so Eita, who has his manly pride as a delinquent to consider, should have done the same. [/sarcasm] in case you couldn't tell.

Let's see...I guess it's pretty rational to compare two girls to a guy with different degrees of mental endurance and in different situations. Maybe I ought to go back and watch School Days all over again.

Aside from that, I don't quite understand what you meant when comparing Sekai and Kotonoha to Eita. Makes no sense.

[Ratix]

One thing I was wondering about...

Does Yoshida know how to "activate" the hougu? There isn't any buttons on it LOL.

On a serious note, Shana seems so much like Haruhi near the end while teaching Yuji to wield the Blutslauger. At least thats my first impression but Shana is still so kawaii ^_^.

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Ratix

One thing I was wondering about...

Does Yoshida know how to "activate" the hougu? There isn't any buttons on it LOL.

On a serious note, Shana seems so much like Haruhi near the end while teaching Yuji to wield the Blutslauger. At least thats my first impression but Shana is still so kawaii ^_^.

I guess it goes like this,


PHHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLES. Yells Yoshida,

Then BGM. TADAAAAAAA.




Shana seeeeems alot cuter than before. She has been looking alot cuter in the last 2 episodes. I agree.

[Ratix]

^_^ Shana has cute outfits... Much more variations in Season 2 compared to 1...

The "Casual Going Out" outfit is my favourite(The one where shana wore in the "lightsabre" game episode). So cute ^_^.

And Yoshida can just go and die or something <_<. NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOSHIDA SAN. NO ONE. EVER.

*Raises Shana Banner*

[Sinestra]

So we start off episode 16 with the new OP and while nice and kind of catchy I still prefer the the first at the moment. Who knows it might grow on me, Also, Triangle as the ED i still prefer but its still nice to get a change every now and then.

Interesting episode as we see our characters trying to pick up the pieces from the events that transpired recently and trying to come up with a game plan. At this point they are all on defensive. Knowledge is power but so far all they have are questions. What they do know is to protect Yuji because eventually the enemy will come and next time it probably will be force.

I feel that this is the time where Yuji will step up and know that he cant depend on Margery, Shana and Willa... to protect him always. So seeing him ask for Blutsauger back from season 1 and the OP where we see him owning several people was nice. I think soon we will see a new Yuji.

I had never entertained the thought of Yoshida possibly dying. But with the explanation of what cross was i can totally see Yoshida using it to save Yuji, which would be a shame. I know she is longing to be in a place where she has more contact with Yuji but its not like you can wake up one day and say hey i want to be a Flame Haze. In the long run i feel that Yoshidas love Yuji is strong enough for her sacrifice herself if need be. But i dont think Johan would condone Pheles giving her something that would kill her. I think there is something else behind it and a reason we have discovered yet.

As i predicted Tanaka is starting to move on his own path and that path takes him away from everyone else. Tanaka has found whats important to him which is Oga and i cant blame him. So im sure we will be seeing a lot less of him in the matters of Flame Hazes. In school im sure we will but i feel his time will be winding down. It seems Tanakas time with Yuji and Shana and the rest of crew winds donw Yoshida's has increased.

[Kiyoru]

Hm, the new OP is pretty decent, a lot of good scenes in there. As for the music, it's meh. It's okay, but I don't really like it. The credits song is A LOT better, I love it.

Anyway, about the episode. It was okay, although it was focusing around Yoshida quite a great deal, and I strongly dislike her. What's so special about her, anyway?! This jealously thing seems to be taking over each episode. If she plucked up the courage a little sooner, then something may have happened between her and Yuji, but because she didn't, we're stuck with little screen moments of her talking about how jealous of Shana she is.

It's all because Shana is way too goodz and will be closer to Yuji than Yoshida ever will be.

Hmph, rant ovar.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I had never entertained the thought of Yoshida possibly dying. But with the explanation of what cross was i can totally see Yoshida using it to save Yuji, which would be a shame. I know she is longing to be in a place where she has more contact with Yuji but its not like you can wake up one day and say hey i want to be a Flame Haze. In the long run i feel that Yoshidas love Yuji is strong enough for her sacrifice herself if need be. But i dont think Johan would condone Pheles giving her something that would kill her. I think there is something else behind it and a reason we have discovered yet.

Personally, I thought it was Yuji and Shana who would fall together in the end, and Kazumi reflecting on the past in the epilogue. After gathering much information on the novels (this was before I found out what happened in novel 16), I came to that prediction thinking that Kazumi would just be on the outside observing. Now it seems that Kazumi has come close to the center of the plot, and it could be completely the opposite of what I had previously theorized.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Ratix

And Yoshida can just go and die or something <_<. NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOSHIDA SAN. NO ONE. EVER.

I care about Yoshida-San, discussion over.

Like superzombie23 said, the animators better get her climax moment properly animated or they will burn

As a side note, while the new OP is not really bad, the old OP was so much better.

[ZODDGUTS]

Originally Posted by Whitemoon648

You guys are all being naive. As if Yoshida-san would ever die. I mean come on. Its shakugan no shana we talking about. A show that is hafly Romance-drama related. If they want to ever get rid of Yoshida ( if they ever do), it would be when they want to end Shakugan no shana series all togher.

sigh I have a bad feeling that there going to do that drag out the whole love triangle to the very end of the series. They really need to get rid of her and for Yuji and Shana to leave the city but it seems the author/creator of Shakugan no Shana is playing it safe by keeping the whole love triangle going and keeping both Yuji and Shana in the city as long as possible. Would really like to what sort of adventures they would have outside the city but it doesn't seem it's gonna happen.

[alvinkhorfire]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

Probably has something to do with how they are able to move in a Fuzetsu, or else it could that those who were active in one and knew what happened in there were able to remember. Of course, we could always wait for someone more well-informed to answer this question.

Well, if anyone can move around in a Fuzetsu, he or she will be separated from the flow of the world. Therefore, he or she can still remember those who have disappeared.

[UPR]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

.After seeing the person you like getting embroiled in this shit and fretting over his decision to help out Margery or to get away from the world makes you a wimp? Riiight.

YES. Because he knew Margery or Shana or Whilhelmina could fix everything no problem. It has happened BEFORE. It was not the first time. Get over yourself. Again it just disrupts flow. And personally I don't want to see minutes of him crying like a baby when there are actual problems and where people can actually die. Personally I just fast forward evrything that has to do with him and the other dude. Unfortunatly that may cover more than half and ep or close to it.