2008-07-14, 07:04 | Link #1281 | |
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Yeah I agree. Well, I for one would like C.C. to move on at the end of the series, start anew once every issue is resolved/terminated. In regards with romance I don't believe C.C. will end up with anyone, she is not human, she doesn't belong on Earth. |
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2008-07-14, 07:09 | Link #1282 | |
Akira
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Side 3
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C.C. deserves a second chance at a normal life. It really seems like she was robbed of, well, of everything. And as far as the romance nonsense goes, in order to get a fresh start, she needs to not affiliate herself with any of the people she's currently with. She needs to go off on her own and if she finds romance in her travels, then so be it. It's definitely not going to be with any of the characters we know. C.C. and her travels after the show sounds like a great idea for one of those "slice of life" animes, no? Heheh. |
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2008-07-14, 09:17 | Link #1283 | ||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Land of Dead Cakes!
Age: 34
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I know I started the 'anything is possible because Kallen stopped him debate' you do not need to inform me about my own arguments. And so far, I have kept that point quite alive. My saying that not everything is possible prior to the event is in no way contradictory to my original claim. Do not even say that anything is possible anywhere. This is not a blank slate, only on an empty plane of no preordained events is 'anything possible anywhere'. In a story only a few events are ever possible because of how the story was built up. For instance, since you seemed to have missed this point, the show made it quite clear that Lelouch needed to be saved from Rolo and from his loss of Nunally. The only person shown to care about the situation or even understand it was Kallen. As such, if no one had shown up, meaning Kallen had not shown up, the number of possibilities is limited to one and only one baring some supernatural nonsense. That possibility is Rolo breaking Lelouch. Once Kallen intervenes all bets are off because Rolo's original plan is thwarted and Lelouch is no longer completely out of his mind. Sure enough, Lelouch could be saved later in a myriad of ways, he could also be further condemned and the story could have ended. Given the situation and Rolo's existence, the latter would be far more likely. Once Rolo breaks Lelouch, he'll not let anyone have him. We know this as fact, that he is greedy of Lelouch, there is no other reason for him to have killed Shirley. So while anything is certainly possible, some events are far more probable than others, so much so that the improbable should hardly even be humored. Quote:
If you are curious as to why I do such a thing, it is because one happened out of coincidence, while the other occurred because of a single person's own actions. Quote:
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Where have I even mentioned Lelouch's affection towards Kallen? I simply said that there are romantic developments occurring. Kallen's attempt to learn about Lelouch through his sister is about as obvious as it can get. |
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2008-07-14, 11:38 | Link #1284 | ||||
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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The only people to knew about his loss were Rolo, C.C. and Kallen. C.C. was too busy pretending not to care. Rolo saw it as a good opportunity to keep him to himself. Kallen went after him. It doesn't make her the only person to care though. C.C. didn't go after him for other reasons. Different people deal with things differently. She expected him to come back on his own. Kallen went after him. She happened to find him there taking refrain. Neither of them knew about his miserable condition at the time. Kallen originally goes to talk to him. If you call the fireworks scene a coincidence, this was just as much of a coincidence. Even more so, because she was lucky to find him in time, and lucky he was where she had gone. What plan did Rolo have? He didn't even come until Kallen left. So how could Kallen stop his plan. Any plan he had he put into motion after she left. It was nice of her to come but it doesn't show she cared more than C.C. They are both different people. C.C. spends half her life trying to hide her emotions. She cared enough to smile (she was quick enough to stop smiling, when she saw Kaguya watching). C.C. puts up a cold front. She thought Lelouch would come back on his own. It happened not to work in her favour. If his friends had left for the trip it would have been over. Any other thing couldn't have happened to send him back in time. I don't see how anything else could have saved him. They didn't stay there because it was raining or something ruined their plans. They stayed there for Lelouch. It was no coincidence. That is what touched him. That they cared about the people more than the place. Quote:
There is no point in arguing anymore on this. I'll leave this to point of view now. Quote:
She said she was sorry for neglecting them. It doesn't prove she left the cult. I doubt she handed her leadership happily to V.V. Last edited by Asleep; 2008-07-14 at 11:50. |
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2008-07-14, 12:11 | Link #1285 | ||||||||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Land of Dead Cakes!
Age: 34
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I've humored several ideas concerning that part of the OP, and the only one that doesn't fall apart is that those are the characters that still exist on both sides of Lelouch. Like so:
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That is not what I meant by coincidence. Especially not if we bother arguing causality. Quote:
I'm sorry but facial expressions are trumped wholeheartedly by actual actions. As I said before, Kallen cared enough to do something. Therein it does show that she cared more than C.C. because if Kallen had, say, been like C.C. then Lelouch would have been lost to his past. Unless you're going to tell me that C.C. can see the future? So, as much as C.C. may 'care', she didn't care enough to do anything. Quote:
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As for the Tabasco sauce line... I'll go right back and throw in the fact that her interruption was not on a 'I love you' line, but on a line that would have likely changed the entire mood of what Lelouch said. The way C.C. interrupted the moment leaves Kallen not knowing anything beyond that Lelouch asked her, and only her, to return with him to Ashford. Had C.C. not appeared, and Lelouch continued, Kallen would have likely been privy to Lelouch's plan which would have involved everyone not just her. Quote:
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She chose, for whatever reason, to turn her back on the Cult. |
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2008-07-14, 15:13 | Link #1286 | |||||||
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People show their concern in different ways. If a child falls, one parent might go and pick them up, while another might leave them alone because they want them to pick them self up, and thus grow stronger. Neither of them are wrong. Neither cared less. And like I said before, she was surprised to find him with the drug. It was not some information they already had. She happened to find him there. And you don't know how much C.C. knew. Don't tell me she has remote viewing or some other power. We are talking about what we know. Quote:
Edited after morbosfist's post: But he was still broken down after Kallen left. She only stopped him from taking the drug. She halted Rolo's plan temporarily, but after she left he was back to his old self. Quote:
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Last edited by Asleep; 2008-07-14 at 15:44. |
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2008-07-14, 18:18 | Link #1289 | ||||||
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Land of Dead Cakes!
Age: 34
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And again, the scene does not fit with Nina present as she's most definitely not going to betray Britannia. Quote:
You trying to convince me that sitting on your ass and playfully tossing around a Zero mask is somehow comparable to going out and trying to find the person you're worried about. I'm sorry but common sense tells me that that does not make any sense at all. (PS: Remote viewing, as you called it, was in C.C.'s defense. But if you want to drop it then fine, we can. Making her even less caring in that situation.) Quote:
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The reason it was stopped like that was for the audience, and for Kallen. She's left hanging and so is the audience. Not the same, because Lelouch never forsook his friends and most of all Nunally. C.C. forsook everyone. Quote:
It is Lelouch's fault that Shirley died, to some degree, and that is simply him over blowing the point. He is overly self-critical about it. But as it stands, I do not see him ever saying that. He didn't say it this episode, he blamed the cult, he has no reason to blame himself after that. |
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2008-07-15, 02:09 | Link #1290 | |||||||
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You don't know how she would react if Lelouch admitted to "killing Shirley". She ran away last time, when she found out Zero was Lelouch. It took her sometime to think it through and come back. In that time Lelouch had lost his memories. She is known to react impulsively. She can do the same again. She was already denying that Lelouch killed her. She could have thought 'maybe he had a reason' or 'I don't know the whole story'. But she refused to believe that Lelouch could ever do such a thing. In such a circumstance, it is very possible, if Lelouch goes "I killed Shirley", she might act without thinking again. Mind you, I am not saying she will not come back. But initially she could leave him. Quote:
You said C.C. might have already known how miserable Lelouch was and still chose to stay. That is why I brought up remote viewing. I was defending her. We have no knowledge of her possessing such a power. They didn't know how bad his condition was. Kallen only found out when she found him with refrain. At first, she had only gone to talk to him, but ended up finding him with refrain. She was pretty shocked herself. If you heard what she was talking about while tossing the zero mask, you would see that she was trying to act professional and uncaring. She doesn't like to display her emotions. She is trying not to get attached to Lelouch. She doesn't want anything personal in her contractual relationship. She is completely different compared to Kallen. Of course she would act differently. Quote:
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I see we have been the only ones to have posted in this thread recently! |
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2008-07-15, 07:28 | Link #1291 | |||||||
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C.C. might be happy to see Lelouch go after Kallen because it: Moves him towards someone other than herself for support, Kallen is her friend, she wants Lelouch to find someone, etc... Heck, for all we know, she may have set Marianne up with Charles and this may be a parallel for her. Quote:
Or C.C. might have been honest, we don't know but past occurences (read: Mao) make me doubt her being self-critical of what she was saying because it was, to a point, an apology and that is usually when the truth is revealed in this show. |
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2008-07-15, 08:11 | Link #1292 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Does anyone think that maybe C.C. and Marianne had the same type of relationship as V.V. and Charles have? My reasoning is that in the flashback at the beginning of episode 14, it shows Marianne and C.C. sitting by a lake looking as if they had just been riding horses together, then it shows Charles and V.V. off watching them.
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2008-07-15, 09:09 | Link #1293 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Harsh Reality, Aisle of Fiction
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"If you're a witch then I'll be a warlock!" XD Said with determination. Therefore, C.CXLulu 4evah~ (literally) :P Cheer up Dann, I mean look at the angsty wonder that is the beautiful first CLAMP pic of the second R2 ending. Isn't it pretty? I can't look away *.*
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2008-07-15, 09:13 | Link #1294 | |
Observer/Bookman wannabe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
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2008-07-15, 09:33 | Link #1295 | |
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I also think her wish definitely had something to do with eradicating the power of Geass completely as Lelouch is attempting now to do. There was just something about this in ep14. I can't shake the feeling that's what she was trying to say before shooting her ex-disciples who were attempting the emergency escape train route. Oh and BTW, why can't I c my own siggy ^^;?
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2008-07-15, 11:20 | Link #1296 | |||||||
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I wonder how many friends C.C. has had. There is Marianne, but we don't know about any one else. I think she hasn't been around many people she cared for. Like with the OotBK now. Kallen is her friend, that is why she was happy he chose to go after her. Also she sees Lelouch taking a more human decision, rather than a practical one which Zero would take. But I don't know if she is setting Kallen and Lelouch up. We'll have to see more for that. Quote:
But if she didn't have much power over them how could she have neglected them? Maybe there is more to it than what meets the eye. Last edited by Asleep; 2008-07-15 at 11:32. |
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2008-07-15, 12:03 | Link #1297 | ||||||||
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Land of Dead Cakes!
Age: 34
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Her actions in every episode except Episode 10 in S2 had been portrayed as more thought out than before. Notably, Episode 2 when she confront Lelouch. That is no impulse, impulse is following his orders as the rest of the Order did without question. She made a thought out decision to confront him. Also, as I said, Ep.10 was the culmination of her jealousy of C.C.. She acted impulsively due to extenuating circumstances. She wanted Lelouch to recognize her, to be in the spotlight, to take it from C.C.. She acted impulsively because of her heart and as its said, a trembling heart often sways a sound mind. As such your example falls short because she was being heavily influenced by her emotions rather than cognitive thought. Changing sides, for instance, is not an emotional decision. It is something one must rationalize to themselves to undergo. People do not just switch sides for shits and giggles (this isn't GS). Especially not after what has just happened to her in Ep.14. She does not make rash decisions in situations where she has the ability to think a decision over, that much has been shown to have changed about her in S2 from being around Lelouch and C.C.. She's growing up, believe it or not. The only thing that is even remotely possible, and I can see happening, that comes into line with your examples has to deal with Shirley. If, and really only if, Lelouch admits to killing Shirley, then she may very well leave him to sort out her mind. This is, of course, assuming they plan on undermining what they focused on building all of S2... again. It is possible, yes, but I do not find it probable. Even if Lelouch says "I Killed Shirley." She should stop and think and figure out why, of all people, Lelouch would kill Shirley. He'd have no reason and she should very much question him. Quote:
That is the difference, Kallen is being built as Lelouch's new pillar even to the point of throwing all of the shit of Ep.13 and 14 on him 'coincidentally' when she's not present. C.C. is being distanced from Lelouch and being brought closer to the Geass and her own wish. Quote:
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She hasn't repeated its just a contract in ages. In fact, she didn't repeat it in her conversation with Marianne. All that she said is that he only needs to be alive for her contract, she didn't dismiss their relationship as just that. Quote:
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If she says neglect then she made the choice to neglect them. Again, I will repeat this, neglect is a personal choice. One does not neglect something that is outside his power. Neglect requires full control of a situation to be applicable. It is free choice to neglect something, not a forced action. That is neither neglect nor abandonment, that is powerlessness. |
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2008-07-15, 12:38 | Link #1298 | ||||||||
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I don't think she thinks it out right away. She needs time for the information to sink in, to start to question herself. It's not about growing up, it's how she works. If she is too shocked and believes it she might leave temporarily. Lets leave this until we get anymore information. We are going in circles. Quote:
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She said it in the last episode. something like "I don't think so, I am just worried about the contract". If all that mattered was for him to stay alive, why was she happy when he returned to the order? Quote:
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2008-07-15, 12:46 | Link #1299 | |
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And the thing about eps 13 and 14, it's strangely convenient for Lelouch to suddenly be given a little karmic retribution and go heavily off the deep end as soon as Kallen gets captured. |
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2008-07-15, 13:01 | Link #1300 | |
All Hail Lelouch!
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Location: In His Majesties Service.
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