Gurren-Lagann - Episode 27 (END) Discussion / Poll

[qwertyuiopz]

EPIC 10
poor simon though

WOOT THERES A MOVIE
time to watch

[Kanish]

Fantastic ending. At first, I too was put-off by the old Simon and Yoko showings, but now I realize it took some guts to do that. They needed to show how the world progressed after the anti-spirals were beaten and they needed to show where all the characters were in relation to that.

[david01840184]

W00t! Getting the full information from wikipedia does put the ending and everything else about the anime into perspective. 9/10 instead of 10/10 for a bittersweet instead of happy ending.

[Hejin]

Probably the most epic, well-thought out, and sensible ending I have ever seen in most anything. It certainly exceeded expectations.

[Dan the Man]

Gotta give it a 10. I just finished watching the ending about two hours ago, and it's still blowing my mind.

I've rarely seen an anime that ended on such a grand scale. I have to say Simon's fate was rather sad, but I appreciate a story that doesn't have to end in a happy ending.

[Bea Rabbit]

Perfect for mee!!!
Simon is so amazing! still wont give up till the end! Hell yeah!

[hero147]

WHAT?!?!?

Simon actually let Nia die? What happened to "do the impossible and kick reason to the curb" motto of the dai-gurren brigade. Simon didn't even try to save her, he just sort of...accepted it. Trading Simon back for Kamina!

PS it wouldn't have killed Gainax to make a happy ending. A bitter/bittersweet ending isn't always the better than a happy one.

[qwertyuiopz]

Originally Posted by hero147

WHAT?!?!?

Simon actually let Nia die? What happened to "do the impossible and kick reason to the curb" motto of the dai-gurren brigade. Simon didn't even try to save her, he just sort of...accepted it. Trading Simon back for Kamina!

PS it wouldn't have killed Gainax to make a happy ending. A bitter/bittersweet ending isn't always the better than a happy one.

happy endings are overrated

[Ninjacat]

Originally Posted by hero147

WHAT?!?!?

Simon actually let Nia die? What happened to "do the impossible and kick reason to the curb" motto of the dai-gurren brigade. Simon didn't even try to save her, he just sort of...accepted it. Trading Simon back for Kamina!

Simon did what he did because he had to set the example. Abuse of spiral power could destroy the universe, and bringing back the dead is as close to an abuse of it's power as you can get. Being capable of doing something doesn't mean you should.

By the end of the show Simon has outgrown the Gurren Brigade's motto. You see, if you're a sucessfull rebel and you win, you end up becoming the guy in power... The very same figure of authority you've been fighting. That means having to act like a responsible adult and take hard decisions. It's easy to tell others they have to let their loved ones go, much harder to hear your own advice.

It's part of the show's theme about growing up. You get more freedom, but you have to think about what it really means...

[Kanish]

^^True! Simon promised the anti-spirals that he'd protect the universe in their stead. It's the one lesson he learnt while fighting them - That with power comes responsibility.

[Jujubee]

I give Gurren Lagann's ending a 9 out of 10, just 1 point shy of being perfect because:

1. Nia vanishing, when she said "I love you so" and disappeared it almost made me cry. And Simon, who was left all alone to wander the world aimlessly after all he had done. Over the top action needs over the top romance and GL's last few episodes tops the charts for best 'epic' romance. Simon went across the universe and defied the laws of reality itself to bring Nia back home and then... ; ;

2. Then there was Yoko. My poor, precious fanservice Yoko.. She was single up until the very end when she became an old lady. At least that's the impression I got when they showed part of her face. I got the impression that she never married, had kids or fell in love again. I really wanted to see her end up with somebody because Yoko, frankly, was way too beautiful to go to waste like that..

So yeah, if the ending was just a little different [less depressing] I'd give it a 10 out of 10 because I didn't want a bitter sweet one.

[ludacris10]

just re-watched the whole series. I'm a sucker for this anime . Cried again watching the last ep. There was part of me that wanted an Alternate ending.

[Vegard Aune]

...Holy. Freaking. Crap. That final battle was just... Honestly, I can't think of a proper way to descibe how awesome it was. Because seriously, "Mind-blowing" doesn't even begin to cover how utterly spectacular that was. I remember saying back in the episode 8-thread that

Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

...Holy crap, the Giga Drill Break(er?) was one of the most epic things I've ever seen.

...By comparison, this episode was, without a doubt, THE most epic thing I've ever seen. Like, despite the fact that I'd already been spoiled on the galaxy-sized Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, its entrance was just... Well, I suppose calling the Crowning Moment of Awesome in a series practically made of Crowning Moments of Awesome would be a good way to describe it.

The episode easily gets a 10/10 from me, and I honestly think that's too low a score to express just how good it was.

[BashZeStampeedo]

Ah, there's nothing quite like an anime that doesn't cheapen the thrill ride at the very end. Simon's end is quite tragic, yes, but it's nice to see Simon turn out to be a real hero by knowing who he was. He wasn't simply stereotypically GAR/longcoat in the end, he was genuinely what Kamina and others believed him to be.

It would have certainly been nicer if Nia could live on a little longer, but the moment she flickered in the Lagaan and I saw Simon's look of abject terror, I felt a tear streak down my face. Yet I was contented that the series wasn't just a cheap thrill ride. I haven't been moved by simple foreshadowing in that way in a very long time, so I knew in that instant that this series was epic, and not just "fun".

I don't, however, consider it a sad ending at all. It was heartwarming to see that the others continued on doing what they were best at, even after Simon had lost the only purpose his life had up until that point. It seemed fitting that his sacrifices were not in vain and that it brought everyone he held dear some happiness, while ensuring that the principles he fought for were upheld. That, to me, is a truly happy ending.

Simon loved the people he fought for enough to not risk destroying everything for the sake of a little more time with Nia. He proved that he actually had the strength of will the show had taken such pains to prove he had. He walked into his doom proudly, and continued on with strength and poise even after he passed the torch along to a younger generation.

The last episode made me actually care about Simon, and by extension the series itself. It didn't push it's luck with a ham-fisted ending, and it managed to make a bittersweet and melancholy ending a relatively happy one. As a result I can safely re-watch this series later, knowing that it is a genuinely "epic" story that is worth watching again. Not many pieces of entertainment get that privilege.

Now I have to decide whether to read the manga and/or watch the movies

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by hero147

WHAT?!?!?

Simon actually let Nia die? What happened to "do the impossible and kick reason to the curb" motto of the dai-gurren brigade. Simon didn't even try to save her, he just sort of...accepted it. Trading Simon back for Kamina!

PS it wouldn't have killed Gainax to make a happy ending. A bitter/bittersweet ending isn't always the better than a happy one.

I completely agree with you. The motto of the dai-gurren brigade, which doubles as the principle theme and driving optimistic viewpoint of this anime imo, was undermined by what happened to Nia.

Now, it's still a wonderful anime overall, but Nia surviving would have made it better, imo.

Originally Posted by qwertyuiopz

happy endings are overrated

The question isn't whether the ending is happy or not. The question is if the ending fits in nicely with the overarching drive and/or theme of the anime.

Mai HiME's overwhelmingly happy ending was totally misplaced, imo, because of the overarching grim/dark theme it had for well over a dozen episodes leading up to the ending.

In TTGL's case, an overwhelmingly happy ending probably would have been ideal as it was a very optimistic and idealistic anime with inspirational, upbeat themes that frequently shone through out.

As is, TTGL's ending was a good ending in most respects, but I agree with hero147 about Nia.

Originally Posted by Ninjacat

Simon did what he did because he had to set the example. Abuse of spiral power could destroy the universe, and bringing back the dead is as close to an abuse of it's power as you can get. Being capable of doing something doesn't mean you should.

Well, this is pure speculation, but perhaps he could have used the spiral power to change Nia from anti-spiral to normal human. That would have been keeping with Simon's overarching drive to save the universe from the anti-spirals and save Nia.
I wouldn't consider this an abuse so much as an unique exception given Nia's unique nature as an anti-spiral.

By the end of the show Simon has outgrown the Gurren Brigade's motto.

I don't think so. Simon's triumph over the Anti-Spirals was with incredible odds stacked against him. Nia (Anti-Spiral mode) herself called Simon's chances of success "infinitesimally small", or something to that extent, IIRC.

When it came to battle, Simon lived up to the Gurren Brigade's motto, and with flying colors, right to the end.

You see, if you're a sucessfull rebel and you win, you end up becoming the guy in power... The very same figure of authority you've been fighting. That means having to act like a responsible adult and take hard decisions. It's easy to tell others they have to let their loved ones go, much harder to hear your own advice.

It's part of the show's theme about growing up. You get more freedom, but you have to think about what it really means...

... Simon handed the reigns of power over to Rossiu, after the Anti-Spiral threat was dealt with. This showed that, if anything, Simon had no desire to be an authority figure since it clashed too much with his philosophy on life.

[Vegard Aune]

Originally Posted by Ninjacat

Simon did what he did because he had to set the example. Abuse of spiral power could destroy the universe, and bringing back the dead is as close to an abuse of it's power as you can get. Being capable of doing something doesn't mean you should.

I agree, though I do think that reviving a dead person seems like a pretty insignificant action compared to punching holes in the very fabric of space, or using mechas that are big enough to stand on top of galaxies.

But yeah, with the war against the Anti-Spirals being over, and them having learned that overusing the Spiral Power would lead to the universe being destroyed, it makes sense for them to stop using it. Also, I think that Simon accepting Nia's death said quite a lot about how much he had grown since the start of the show. While it would have been nice if the series ended with everyone living "Happily ever after", I don't really have any problems with what they did here.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Vegard Aune

I agree, though I do think that reviving a dead person seems like a pretty insignificant action compared to punching holes in the very fabric of space, or using mechas that are big enough to stand on top of galaxies.

But yeah, with the war against the Anti-Spirals being over, and them having learned that overusing the Spiral Power would lead to the universe being destroyed, it makes sense for them to stop using it. Also, I think that Simon accepting Nia's death said quite a lot about how much he had grown since the start of the show. While it would have been nice if the series ended with everyone living "Happily ever after", I don't really have any problems with what they did here.

If Simon had the power to prevent Nia's death, then he should have used it to do so, imo. Like you said yourself, it's certainly no bigger a deal than creating mechas that stand on galaxies. I very much doubt that this one use of spiral power would have been the straw that broke the camel's back, given what it had already been used for before.

Saving Nia was an important secondary objective through out the entire final arc. Simon just chose to chuck that out the window - 2nd Objective: Failed.

He made the wrong decision there, imo.

[Mayhem The Great]

Good anime... Kind of a sad ending though. I really hate endings that show characters aging... well, I suppose it's a fitting way to end the series though.

Though I'm confused... The show was all about kicking reason to the curb in the beginning, but in the end, some things are just not meant to be kicked to the curb... What was with the sudden change? I usually don't read too deep into shows, so could someone clear this up for me? Was this forshadowed somewhere in the beginning of the series? Please help! D:

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Mayhem The Great

Good anime... Kind of a sad ending though. I really hate endings that show characters aging... well, I suppose it's a fitting way to end the series though.

Though I'm confused... The show was all about kicking reason to the curb in the beginning, but in the end, some things are just not meant to be kicked to the curb... What was with the sudden change? I usually don't read too deep into shows, so could someone clear this up for me? Was this forshadowed somewhere in the beginning of the series? Please help! D:

Personally, I think that Gainax just didn't have it in them to do an entirely happy ending; it just goes too much against their preferred way of doing endings.

But, in fairness, Gainax at least didn't NGE-ify this. That was a big relief to me when I first watched this episode a couple years back. I wouldn't call it an outright sad ending - the good guys did win, after all. More bittersweet than anything, probably.

[Mayhem The Great]

Hmmm Yea, I kinda worded it wrong when I said sad. I agree that bittersweet is a better way to put it. I remember seeing NGE's last episode, and I did not understand what the heck happened. But that's another story.

Still, I am wondering why the beginning is all about kicking reason to the curb and then in the end, there was a sudden change of heart. "Some things just weren't meant to be kicked to the curb," Is the way I see the episode's final moral. Why the sudden change of heart? I am aware that the reason why Simon decided not to revive Kamina and Nia is because he would end up stooping as low as Anti-Spiral. But who says he wouldn't have been a good god? LOL! I'm kidding about the good god thing, but could someone give me an explanation? Not trying to be a troll here, it's just something that's been bugging me alot recentally.