[Manga] Chapter 513 Discussion

[-Sho-]

Ow lol , zombie can talk like if they're still alive , seems that they still have their memories back too .

Page 16 : Lol ..

Anyway we'll see some Tsuchikage actions .

[Kafriel]

Ow lol , zombie can talk like if they're still alive , seems that they still have their memories back too .

Were you expecting Deidara to go all "braaains....art, KATSU!" or something? Gotta say I'm getting snoozy though, despite this being an important time in the Naruto story. Probably because Naruto is taking a back seat to the elite forces, which reminds me a LOT of bleach (Ichigo lost in oblivion and gotei 13 taking up months of panels), but still, I hope it gets better after a point...

[Seta19]

Whatever.. either way I think naruto is ending soon enough.. hopefully sasuke dies, sacraficing himself for naruto, would be ideal for an ending.. and of course naruto becoming hokage. >_>

[KidKoolAid]

I personally think the best set up for the hidden leaf to have in the future would be Shikamaru as the hokage and Naruto as the town's protector. I know this will never happen as naruto since his introduction has been screaming about being hokage, but he hasn't shown me anything other than raw power that makes him worthy of that title.

[Endrance]

I agree with you on that naruto might have the strength to be a hokage but he doesnt have the brains to be in charge

[lucasd]

So what a problem, Naruto is a kage, shikamaru is a shadow kage...

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Endrance

I agree with you on that naruto might have the strength to be a hokage but he doesnt have the brains to be in charge

Nah... Kishi is always trolling us with Naruto being the dumbest ninja. But when it comes to important things, he is not (so) dumb.

Jiraiya for instance, even Orochimaru (and Tsunade) called him dumb. They say that Kushina and Naruro share same personality, but Kushina even taught Minato Sealing Jutsus.

Naruto is a comic relief by himself.... but he can kick some butt.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by lucasd

So what a problem, Naruto is a kage, shikamaru is a shadow kage...

Just as an FYI, Kage translates to shadow...

[KidKoolAid]

I doubt Naruto would let Shikamaru do that , as he would find that insulting. Maybe Shikamaru can be to Naruto what the elders are to the current and past Hokages...I mean without the "evil" or "one sideness"

That being said yeah kishi has shown him to be competent at times and then he goes right back to being all but slow. I would like to see him be a tad bit maturer , but still be able to be funny and lovable. Rock lee does it , J-man did it , even Minato seemed to be that, and Kushina had that personality as well. I guess my problem is I am expecting him to act mature while forgetting his age, war is here to help him make that transformation and he will if Kishi makes this a real war and not just a set of battles.

P.S. Kishi having the dead brought back (villagers , friends , etc ) after dying takes credibility away from the fight , battle , war , villain , and the growth the hero makes , because of the outcome. Okay Kishi no more heroes or innocents coming back after they die. Don't pull another Pein on me again.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by KidKoolAid

I doubt Naruto would let Shikamaru do that , as he would find that insulting.

I doubt he has the brain to ever notice it was happening if it came to that.
But it won't. Naruto may act like a retard but Kishimoto destiny is on his side. It doesn't matter that he is dumb, he will somehow impress all the Kage by making insane decisions which will magically end up making the world a better place despite all odds.
Naruto is the Messiah, he cannot do wrong and for the unbelievers a little senselessly cheesy speech will transform them all into dribbling zealots eventually.

I guess my problem is I am expecting him to act mature while forgetting his age

He is sixteen, not four.
If you want to make excuses blame Madara, Naruto is the textbook example of why you shouldn't put explosive on a baby and toss him in the air.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by KidKoolAid

I doubt Naruto would let Shikamaru do that , as he would find that insulting. Maybe Shikamaru can be to Naruto what the elders are to the current and past Hokages...I mean without the "evil" or "one sideness"

With that kind of things i always mention Kishi, not the characters.
So, Kishi already put in Shikamaru's "mind" that he will walk with Naruto because he will be an important guy. Even in the fillers or not so fillers, the anime reinforce that point when Shikaku asks him about Naruto... and Shikaku knows everything about Naruto.

So i believe that Shikamaru will never think in terms of be an authority, only if Naruto asks him, they will accept, after whining a while about how troublesome it will be though

I would like to see him be a tad bit maturer , but still be able to be funny and lovable.

Well, Kishi did that: Konoha's Invasion, Tsunade's search, Pain's arc... but it seems that isn't enough... at least to me, it's quite enough. Mature and funny it's quite hard to find in Shounen, because those are states of mind in certain circumstances. I remember Keshin Himura, who was very mature only when it was important, but in the daily life, he was just a vagabond, who played with kids, did errands, the laundry and was scolded by everybody.

P.S. Kishi having the dead brought back (villagers , friends , etc ) after dying takes credibility away from the fight , battle , war , villain , and the growth the hero makes , because of the outcome. Okay Kishi no more heroes or innocents coming back after they die. Don't pull another Pein on me again.

Well, that's why i always say that the culprit is Kishi, not Naruto.

[kitten320]

Good to see that Zombies have their own mind, though at the same time it is slightly dissapointing... what is the difference between zombie and living one? Hope it will be hown somehow.

Can't wait to see other zombie akatsuki action, especially Sasori. I missed him.

[KidKoolAid]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Well, Kishi did that: Konoha's Invasion, Tsunade's search, Pain's arc... but it seems that isn't enough... at least to me, it's quite enough. Mature and funny it's quite hard to find in Shounen, because those are states of mind in certain circumstances. I remember Keshin Himura, who was very mature only when it was important, but in the daily life, he was just a vagabond, who played with kids, did errands, the laundry and was scolded by everybody.

Well I always enjoy that personality in a character whether they are good and evil , it is just that Kishi has naruto almost in a regressive state in a way of thinking. I never expect Naruto to be Itachi or Kakashi (Wouldn't want to see him be them either), but at times he down right acts like a small child , but hey that's Naruto..I guess. What really will make the difference in my way of viewing Naruto in the future is how Kishi has him act in battles when he finds out about the war. It might come off as I am critical of Naruto , but he is 2nd favorite character in the series next to Orochimaru.

Orochimaru - Naruto - Shikamaru - J-man - Pein

[Ulquiorra]

Kishimoto has a balancing act with Naruto the character. He has made him extremely powerful the past two years with Sage Mode and now mastering the Kyuubi chakra. Also with the revelation about his lineage. But I also believe he wants Naruto to still retain a number of his old traits because that's what the Japanese expect. They still want the lovable idiot that they can relate to. Especially for younger kids who probably laughed at him this chapter because they can identify with Naruto. A lot of his Western fanbase want him to be some kind of cool badass like Minato, but that is never going to happen. He is always going to be an Idiot Hero.

And as Hunter points out, Naruto doesn't have to be a genius. He will always end up being right anyway.

Think of Shikamaru as Mr. Spock and Naruto as Captain Kirk. Spock was at his best when he offered advice to Kirk. He might not have been as good running the ship.

[kusanagi25]

naruto was tricked they told him it was an S-class mission and naruto will do anything for a high ranking mission. Naruto has nothing else on his mind cause if he finishes it,he can brag about doing an S-class mission

[KidKoolAid]

I guess it is tough finding a balance and also trying to please the fans. Ichigo can be super bad ass at times , but sometimes his lack of emotion makes it hard to identify with him. Naruto ties a giant scroll to his back and destroys a pein body with one punch and we see a hero nobody in the right mind should want to F*ck with, but then the next moment he is searching for animal genitalia. It is hard to be a shonen hero these days.

[Fran~]

Well you put an example of why Kubo is a failure and Kishi -despite everything- isn't a failure.
Take Ichigo and compare with Naruto... Ichigo is only a spamming of Getsugatenshos... now Ichigo even lost his comic relief.

To me, Kira even Hisagi are far more interesting characters than Ichigo... Kubo did the same trick to powered-up Ichigo, he didn't explain Ichigo's past... Kishi in some way could manage to power-up Naruto in different ways: Normal Training, Inner battles, Itachi's Crow, advance training, improvisation, etc...

After 300 chapters, Ichigo went from the cool guy to a "meh" guy... Naruto is the same lovable knucklehead ninja but far more powerful than before.

What Kubo did the last chapters was really pathetic. I never read something that pathetic from Kishi, you can be mad at him for several reasons, but sometimes Kishi can create something worth to read.

[KidKoolAid]

I agree Fran. Bleach frustrates me to the point where I take long brakes from it and I have never even once thought about that with Naruto. In fact the naruto pein arc is the main reason why I will stick with Naruto til the end.

I doubt Naruto will remain like he is and I must admit I readily invite the knucklehead Naruto than the crying, depressed , self loathing naruto we got right after the Pein arc. It does say alot about Naruto that after what he has seen and been through that he can still remain pure like he does , like Killerbee.

I also enjoy after seeing him being bad ass in a fight and afterwards he is his same goofy self, it makes you respect him that he did not lose the things he believed in and remained true. I am not saying that Naruto hasn't matured , i guess I would just like to see more of it from time to time. For example when he proclaimed to Sasuke that there will be no bullsh*t , they will fight and they both would die. I seen right there that Naruto wasn't the same kid we first saw swinging in the tree in chapter 1.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Take Ichigo and compare with Naruto... Ichigo is only a spamming of Getsugatenshos.

Yeah, because Naruto spamming Rasengans is so much better.

Kishi in some way could manage to power-up Naruto in different ways: Normal Training, Inner battles, Itachi's Crow, advance training, improvisation, etc...

Naruto may power up in different ways, but that doesn't mean any of them are meaningful or amount to anything more than "Huge Power Boost #37!"

Oh yeah, and whatever did happen to Itachi's deep-throating crow?

Naruto is the same lovable knucklehead ninja but far more powerful than before.

Yeah, only now he's twice as goofy and irritating, has zero interest in the opposite sex, has an unhealthy obsession with Sasuke and, what's more, hyperventilates after considering the possibility that he might be *dun dun dun* evil!

Oh, and he has a fascination with armadillo penises.

Originally Posted by KidKoolAid

That being said yeah kishi has shown him to be competent at times and then he goes right back to being all but slow.

Naruto hasn't shown an ounce of competency or maturity since part 1.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

And as Hunter points out, Naruto doesn't have to be a genius. He will always end up being right anyway.

Uh, you do realize he was being sarcastic and that that's a point against the story, don't you?

Originally Posted by kusanagi25

naruto was tricked they told him it was an S-class mission and naruto will do anything for a high ranking mission. Naruto has nothing else on his mind cause if he finishes it,he can brag about doing an S-class mission

Our future Hokage, ladies and gentlemen.

Originally Posted by KidKoolAid

Ichigo can be super bad ass at times , but sometimes his lack of emotion makes it hard to identify with him.

It is literally impossible to identify with Ichigo; a character who has no personality nor any emotional stake in anything.

[Frenchie]

@Nobodyman, come on man. Naruto isn't OP, but give credit where credit is due. The story is still miles away from what Bleach has become.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Yeah, because Naruto spamming Rasengans is so much better.

Hm. His last fight was with the Kyuubi, so I don't know what you expected, really. It was obviously a question of who had the most power, and the Oodama Rasengan army was kiiiiinda awesome.

Otherwise, Naruto has shown he could use the Shadow Shuriken with his Fuuton Rasengan, has shown creativity with Henge and Kage Bunshin, with frog summons that can deal with the whole genjutsu aspect, added to some serious water jutsu. To be honest with you? That's enough for me, he's already got the variety he needs, and if we go by the hints given to us, he's going to be the next 'Flash' of Konoha. Might be purely symbolic, as his Kyuubi form affords him the looks and the speed, or it might be that he'll actually learn the Flying Thunder God technique. Which might or might not be 'that jutsu'.

Come on, Naruto is aeons away from Ichigo.

Naruto may power up in different ways, but that doesn't mean any of them are meaningful or amount to anything more than "Huge Power Boost #37!" Oh yeah, and whatever did happen to Itachi's deep-throating crow?

Huh, you know, as you put it, a power boost is what it is... I can't say OP has done much better in terms of power boost with Luffy's gears. And meaningful? The Kyuubi form has proven to be powerful, but impossible to control so far, which has given plenty of meaning to Naruto. I mean, this arc was almost entirely dedicated to his coming to term with hatred and taking control over a form that would normally make him go berserk.

That doesn't amount to anything to you?

Yeah, only now he's twice as goofy and irritating, has zero interest in the opposite sex, has an unhealthy obsession with Sasuke and, what's more, hyperventilates after considering the possibility that he might be *dun dun dun* evil!

You mean, 'sides the Sasuke deal, just like Luffy?

I think that looking back on the chapters that made part I, there is still a sense that Sasuke was the essential cornerstone of Naruto's willingness to push his limits. Perhaps the years of fillers dealing with Sasuke, essentially repeats of episodes peddling the same 'Rescue Sasuke' idea, has given Shippuuden a bad start, ie watchers that go: "Again with Sasuke?"

I think Naruto's obsession with Sasuke isn't 'unhealthy'. Naruto's entire childhood was unhealthy, and his relationship with Sasuke was the first healthy thing that ever happened to him. We may not necessarily agree with the way it's pictured, but we should both be able to understand Naruto's willingness and desire to save an old friend from a path of vengeance that our main character understands all too well, seeing as he felt the same kind of resentment towards the villagers.

Naruto hasn't shown an ounce of competency or maturity since part 1.

If you're going to troll, at least put some effort in it.