2012-10-12, 09:12 | Link #41 |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Oh yeah...maker threads will definitely be like that. But fortunately, that's not where fluff discussion and spoilers lie
As for manga...must be due to too much Gan Gan Comic titles I usually browse so I usually avoid the worst lot.
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2012-10-12, 09:14 | Link #42 |
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Oh yeah, due to the minority aspect of Gan Gan readership, those threads don't attract the insane and the inane. They're peaceful as hell compared to the other shounen magazine threads.
Magi thread is also excellent, but I have a feeling if the anime becomes a hit, it's gonna degenerate into another craptastic thread.
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2012-10-12, 09:17 | Link #43 |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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I dunno why...Gan Gan needs more love.
This year's individual threads for the corresponding major PSP game releases have been quite ok too....seems that the more developed characters are or plot heavy a game is the more civil a thread...
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2012-10-12, 09:18 | Link #44 | ||
18782+18782=37564
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Maybe the roots of this problem weren't really in anime fandoms, but the internet culture itself. 4ch and 2ch may have a large amount of anime fandom in them, but they are probably ultimately a product of the "internet" rather than of the whole anime fandom thingy. I'm not sure though, does this "stereotype blaming" exists in other hobbies when brought to the internets? Edit: I think I can at least say that this is indeed happened/ing in the gaming world where old-timers are blaming newer, more casual fans for the "dumbing down" of games.
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2012-10-12, 11:45 | Link #45 |
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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While this thread has largely been focusing on the "otaku" part of my opening statement, the "fujoshi" part was brought up for a reason - I've always been interested in fan culture surrounding a series, seeing what the fans latch onto and make their own. Sure, none of it is "official", but it can often enhance enjoyment of a series. It's responsible for one of the biggest emotional reactions I had to a series, and is fun to watch evolve from week to week for an ongoing series. While I would still be interested in, say, Smile Precure, I get so much more out of it with the pixiv community's interpretation of Yayoi as a toku fan. Or to use an example with a slightly bigger audience, the "perverted Homura" stuff from Madoka Magica. Nowhere in the source material, but still an important part of fan culture.
So that's what makes the rejection of the fujoshi fan culture (and perhaps female anime fans in general? There are many at this forum, but it ties into something larger) to be confusing. Though an anime fan's reactions to a female character can vary wildly, there is on some level a desire to understand what exactly makes a girl's mind tick. To shove any group of female fans, no matter what their tastes are, off to the side seems like it won't solve the problem, but in fact make the divide larger. There has to be some common ground that can be found here. |
2012-10-12, 12:33 | Link #46 | |
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Now, I think that male anime fans sometimes overreact here (some of the reactions I've seen to both No. 6 and K are a bit over the top), but again, it's just not reasonable to expect people to embrace content (fanmade or otherwise) that's a turn off to them. This is especially true when you're dealing with entertainment, of all things. So there's always going to be some degree of division between fujoshis and most male anime fans. That being said, I've had some good anime-based conversations with fujoshis and I think it's important for male anime fans to realize that fujoshis are basically just the female mirror image of male yuri fans. So just as yuri fans can appreciate the many non-yuri aspects of anime, so to can fujoshis appreciate the many non-yaoi aspects of anime. There's no need to treat fujoshis as some weird and mysterious "other", in other words.
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2012-10-12, 12:38 | Link #47 |
Last Engage
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Florida
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That's precisely the point I was getting at. No fan needs to be othered, no matter what their interests are. Even if they can't see eye to eye, trying to put up a kind of "No Girls Allowed" barrier isn't going to benefit anyone.
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2012-10-12, 13:09 | Link #48 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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And Yuri doesn't tend to be so openly erotic either. I think saying the two are gender flipped equivalents is false. |
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2012-10-12, 13:31 | Link #49 | ||
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I am not really sure what you mean by "openly erotic". Quote:
They are both anonymous boards of course you are going to get the negative & crazy from that.
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2012-10-12, 13:48 | Link #50 |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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Watch the first episodes of Aoi Hana and Junjou Romantica and get back to me.
I think the difference between the two is generally indicative of the difference between Yuri and Yaoi. Might I add, were it not for the... ahem, subject matter of Yaoi, I'd probably prefer it. Yuri is too slow and depressing. |
2012-10-12, 14:07 | Link #51 | |
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I am not a fujoshi/yaoi fan but I am pretty sure there is a lot of different types of series out there.
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2012-10-12, 14:30 | Link #52 | |
Knight Errant
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Both are considered some of the best in their respective genre (at least according to baka-updates), you're the one being unfair by calling one of them (I don't know which) fanfiction. I watched both and didn't consider them bad, but they are not to my taste. But Yaoi is the more openly erotic genre. Yuri often shrouds itself with all kinds of annoying saccharine "forbidden love" stuff. Yaoi just skips straight to the, uh, main event. |
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2012-10-12, 15:02 | Link #53 | |
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But I still think you are being unfair in your comparison. I am only vaguely familiar with the Yuri/Yaoi genre but even I know there are Yaoi series that aren't about the characters having sex. In fact from my understanding whether it's smut or just romance it's still under the umbrella term Yaoi in Japan. So there is definitely "innocent love" in Yaoi too.
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2012-10-12, 15:13 | Link #54 |
18782+18782=37564
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So basically, you want people to wise up and be more open-minded (probably be less stupid as well...). I understand the feeling really well, but I think this is a lost cause, however noble. Especially on the internets
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2012-10-12, 15:22 | Link #55 | |||
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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Or, er, Tiger x Bunny, if you prefer it the other way. I have to agree, fujoshi gets unfair flak in this male-dominated forum. I don't think they care though, the Yaoi community online is big and confident, and it's not like they're the butt of the Internet (that honor goes to the furries). They don't have to be here to listen to the male fanboys complain. :/ Quote:
So the difference in *focus* is indeed there. Aside from the vast quantities of yaoi porn, something like Loveless is pretty plot-heavy, but it doesn't shy away from the "stuff." I've read some pretty good BL series that focus on romance and relationship, and they rarely avoid "contact." |
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2012-10-12, 15:46 | Link #56 | |||
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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On the flip side, Yuri does not really stem from any shonen genre in the same way. It's not simply shonen romance with one woman replaced. It's a distinct genre that tends to focus on forbidden love and romantic passion. It's not really erotic in the way Yaoi is. Usually the relationship is Sempai/Kohai, with young chirpy freshman and her mature, serene "Onee-Sama". Frankly, I find it melodramatic and dull. As Irenicus said, half of the anime pretend they're not even Yuri... There is Yuri Hentai, but it's not really like normal Yuri in that it's just Sex Sex Sex. Whereas Yaoi Hentai is a lot like Yaoi in that the same structure is used, except what is simply alluded to in "normal" Yaoi is depicted hardcore in hentai Yaoi. And another important distinction is popularity. Yuri is not really that popular, whereas Yaoi is ubiquitous among the Fujoshis (if they're not into Yaoi, they're not really Fujoshis). To give an idea of the difference, Baka-updates Manga has 11056 series tagged as "Yaoi". Yuri? 1146! That's right folks, there's ten times more Yaoi then Yuri. So as I said, the two really aren't equivalent. |
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2012-10-12, 15:48 | Link #57 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Well perhaps I misunderstood Don and then I apologize again.
But from what I've seen neither yaoi & Yuri seem to have a strong presence in anime (maybe there are a few more yaoi titles). They seem to have a stronger presence in manga. Is there no manga where the Yuri is explicit? I would be really surprised by that. On another note from my understanding Yuri also started out as a Shoujo genre, I am not really sure if that's still the case or not though. But anyways I think we can compare fujoshi to Yuri fans, at least among the Western fandom. Because I see the same people saying oh no BL, yay Yuri. In that sense I don't really see what the difference is, even if the genres are different, the fans don't seem different to me. And fangirling/fanboying Yuri & Yaoi is certainly not exclusive to actual Yaoi/Yuri series. Maybe there is bit more fan art/fic on the BL side but again I think you just have more women writing fic/drawing art in general.
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2012-10-12, 15:57 | Link #58 | ||
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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So fujoshi "squee" at their BL pairings, while moe fans like me squee at all sorts of other stuff, what's the difference? What do you feel (well, maybe you don't; I don't know if you're a moe fan like me or not) when you have to defend squeeing over moe because of some "serious mecha/sci-fi anime fan" wet paper bags insulting us and our soft spots? It's precisely what Midonin is creating this thread to argue against (well partly). Like, dudes, let it go. And by the way Bunny x Tiger is totally squee. XD Quote:
Despite the perception otherwise in the West yuri fans in Japan are mixed gender, even largely women at times (depending on magazine demographic targets). Girl on girl porn, yup that's a male thing. |
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2012-10-12, 16:09 | Link #59 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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Now I'm going to stare wistfully at my VF-25 Messiah. It has such big... missile bays. |
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2012-10-12, 21:04 | Link #60 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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You like what I like, I like what I like...if sometimes those likes overlap all the better. The way all those people get instantly blasted for their likings is....stupid? After all, it's not like they shove it in your faces unlike say....K-On...... Hell if you interact more with them there's much in common interest-wise I usually find...
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