AnimeSuki Forums

Fronzel · 2004-09-28, 01:18

Jem!

Damn close to magical girl anime, if I remember correctly.

mememe · 2004-09-28, 01:24

oops, sorry misinformation, anyway what happend in Gargoyles I stopped watching it way before it got crappy, but I still wanna know what happened. Yeah Pirates of Dark water was good, I liked the bird, half monkey thingy (I've forgotten the name).

Anyone remember Beast Wars?

edit: yes Jem was cool!

bunnykun · 2004-09-28, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Paper

I'd also say Ren & Stimpy but it's best known for it's craptastic plots (albeit funny), horrid animation and cell/scene recycling and it's unique brand of abusive humor. None of these qualities can really stated as being those of a fine animated series. ^^;

Glad to know someone who appreciates Ren and Stimpy sick humor.
I love that show when i was a kid and now spongebob squarepants is somewhat the
evo of that show.

Remember...

"What rolls down stairs
and over the chairs
and into your neighbor's dog?
It fits on your back,
It's good for a snack,
Everyone knows it's log.
It's log, it's log,
It's big, it's heavy, it's wood.
It's log, it's log, it's better than bad, it's good."

EDIT: I believe i wandered off topic...

Kamui4356 · 2004-09-28, 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox

There was that short Invasion America thing.

What happened with that, wasn't it supposed to be a pilot for a longer series? Maybe the ratings weren't what they were expecting or something. I didn't think it was all that great, but it had promise.

hooliganj · 2004-09-28, 02:48

Gargoyles was great while it was running in syndication at 11 pm, but then Disney bought the ABC network and needed to fill up their Saturday morning lineup. They noticed they already had an animated show on that channel (yeah, it was produced by Disney all along) that was pulling in good ratings even in an awful time slot, and decided to try to make some more money off of that. They quickly realized that as it was, it was not suitable fare for Saturday mornings, but rather than leave it where it was doing well, they tried to clean it up, and lost the magic, just like Disney's been doing to everything else ever since Walt died.

What makes it even sadder, is that Gargoyles was just hitting its stride. The end of the second season, with the return from Avalon, the 'Future Tense' episode, the whole Midsummer Night's Dream story, and the big finale, was the best that show had ever been, and it looked like it was only going to get better. I was a big fan of the Mouse when I was a kid, but when they gutted Gargoyles it made me think again.

mememe · 2004-09-28, 06:27

yeah ok pm me with the details cause what your talking about doesn't ring a bell! or better yet just write what happened here and don't worry by the looks of it, with the release of old cartoons done up, eg. x-men and the new x-men, it'll probably be put in a new cartoon a few years down the track. If not I'll make them do it!

VenomSymbiote · 2004-09-28, 06:59

Can't believe noone's said The Real Ghostbusters yet. Not the Extreme ones from a few years back, the original ones from the early 90's. That was my all time favorite cartoon as a lad, and I always felt the animation was beyond a mere toon. Maybe it's just my love for it from a kid, and heck still today, but I really wish animators put as much effort into shows today like they did with The Real Ghostbusters.

And I will whole heartedly agree with Batman: The Animated Series. Mark Hamill = Only Joker voice, period. He does it so well.

babbito2k · 2004-09-28, 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyByNite

...animation has never been looked at as anything more then kids stuff in the US...

That's not the case. The Flintstones was a primetime show which ran for 166 episodes(!) in the early-to-mid 60s. Animation shown in theaters (including Betty Boop, Disney and the Warner Bros. classics) was meant to be family entertainment. Ralph Bakshi's Fritz the Cat (1972) was rated X.

Gevurah · 2004-09-28, 08:52

Shit, talk about memories. I'm surprised Thundercats or Silverhawks weren't mentioned yet (unless they're somehow anime). Dinosaucers rocked as well considering they played it usually right after Robotech on Fox back in the day (i.e. early 80s). Another series that caught my attention was the Dino Riders. It got less episodic later on in the show when they went after the Ultrasaurus, but that show never bored me. The Bots Master was pretty cool too. I really liked the cheesy premise with the dude who fought against that uber-conglomerate with his robot inventions in his underground house. I just didn't like busting out the 3d glasses every 3 seconds when action popped up.

Batman Beyond surprised me. I didn't like the whole premise of Batman in the future, kinda like the whole Spiderman 2099 and crap, but I liked the neo-dark atmosphere. When I watched "Return of the Joker," I fell in love with it because the animation was pretty top notch for an American Cartoon.

But nowadays, American cartoons just don't have the same appeal to me as before. It seems as if they're leaving the semi-mature issues to anime, which they import and horribly edit for broadcast, and focusing on really cheesy stuff. The only exceptions I can see now are the Simpsons, King of the Hill, Family Guy, Spongebob (I really hated that show until I sat down and watched a couple episodes). Oh now that I think about it, there were a couple toons on MTV that really caught my eye, such as the ever wicked Aeon Flux (which is becoming a movie) and the Maxx. Those were pretty badass during the mid 90s.

Radd · 2004-09-28, 10:05

I really hated both Thundercats and Silverhawks, to the shock and dismay of many of my peers, but while many people these days thing both they, and shows like Transformers and Inspector Gadget were somehow anime, they are not.

Zyan · 2004-09-28, 10:41

Nobody mentioned Spawn? I remember watching it on HBO. Pretty good stuff.

hooliganj · 2004-09-28, 14:00

I'll trump Spawn with The Maxx, which was actually about something above and beyond the cheesey comic book plot.

As for old Saturday morning cartoons, I watched a lot of stupid stuff when I was a kid, but for something better than the average, hmmm... maybe Cadillacs and Dinosaurs? I was all hopped up on sugar at the time, so my memory's a bit fuzzy.

ubb · 2004-09-29, 21:02

Invasion America was only suppose to last a few episodes, I actually forgot about watching it until it was mentioned here. It wasn't a bad show, but it was never meant to be aired for a whole season.

I think I would still like beast wars right now even if I haven't watched it when I was 10.

cindialai · 2004-09-29, 21:17

I think spongebob squarepants is funny, so is ren and stimpy...

JubeiYamazaki · 2004-09-29, 21:39

I so loved my Batman:TAS, so perfect for its time in so many ways, imo: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...31&postcount=8

Others that hit it for me: Batman Beyond, Superman:TAS, Gotham Knights, Justice League, and Justice League Unlimited, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Sealab, Exosquad, Wild C.A.Ts, Real Ghostbuster, the original TMNT, original He-Man, G.I. Joes, and G.I. Joes Xtreme, Silver Hawks, Gargoyles, original Transformers and Home Movies, to name a few. So loved all those shows.

Prince of Chronics · 2004-09-29, 21:52

JubeiYamazaki pretty much nailed most of my favorites (though I've never heard of GI Joes Xtreme)... but I would like to add the Fox Kids Xmen, Spiderman, and Batman series.... and who could forget M.A.S.K and Disney's Gargoyles?....those were some of my favorite cartoons of all time... definitely up there with some of my favorite Japanese cartoons like One Piece, FMA, Naruto, etc...

LK_LoA · 2004-09-30, 00:32

Meet the anime standard? I didn't know that there's an ISO-9000 standard for anime. (j/k)
A lot of people can reminiscing about their favourite anime shows but the title is somewhat inappropriate.

With anime from CrayonShin-chan to Ghost in the Shell, how can you ascribe a standard on such diverse genre (which only common feature is that it was drawn rather than acted)?

Oh, Batman:TAS was good.

wsheit · 2004-09-30, 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by LK_LoA

Meet the anime standard? I didn't know that there's an ISO-9000 standard for anime. (j/k)
A lot of people can reminiscing about their favourite anime shows but the title is somewhat inappropriate.

With anime from CrayonShin-chan to Ghost in the Shell, how can you ascribe a standard on such diverse genre (which only common feature is that it was drawn rather than acted)?

Oh, Batman:TAS was good.

Ok, let me clarify here again. There is a completely different opinion here in the U.S. on what animated features should do, what audience they should entertain. Here in the U.S., animation (even computer animation) is considered "kiddy"- Just tell anybody in the U.S. that cartoons are your favorite form of entertainment. Seconds after the words leave your mouth, they've mentally branded you as a weirdo; and with the rather narrow array of animation here in the U.S., they may have good reason to think that your development is a little stunted. Animation here, thus targeted, doesn't usually attempt to tell any grand stories or ever delve into deep morality/philosophy (with a few exceptions that I and others may have named).

Anime, however, is also quite different from live-action tv here. The number of series here that attempt to tell a grand story or actually go into philosophy are rather few. THE reason I watch anime is that I find it's one of the only places where really interesting and epic stories are being told. Here, we get CSI: MIAMI, CSI: CHICAGO, CSI: DETROIT, SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT: SEXUAL ASSAULT, SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT: NECROPHILIA, LAW & ORDER, LAW & ORDER: THE NEW TEAM- are ya gettin' my drift here?

And on the sci-fi/fantasy series front here, we can't seem to do any better than an endless series of Star Trek and Xena rip-offs (although the Children of Dune miniseries was quite good).

So, I find anime, in general, to be a volume of work that is rarely matched in other animation or live-action work. This thread is dedicated to identifying works that capture the same level of storytelling/artistic prowess.

hooliganj · 2004-09-30, 01:28

Are we allowed to mention live-action? 'Cause if we are, Babylon 5 was about as good as it gets, TV-wise, and while The Pretender was a serial, I'd put it's plot up against some the best anime out there. There's also older shows like Forever Night that really tried to push the envelope.

Of course the true groundbreakers always die young. Does anyone else remember VR5 or Profit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsheit

SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT: NECROPHILIA

I haven't seen that one, but then again, maybe that's for the best.

JubeiYamazaki · 2004-09-30, 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsheit

So, I find anime, in general, to be a volume of work that is rarely matched in other animation or live-action work. This thread is dedicated to identifying works that capture the same level of storytelling/artistic prowess.

I understand that, but when people watch anime/cartoons/TV/anything for entertainment, they're watching it for entertainment. Without a doubt, anime has such a wide variety of choices, that it can appeal to someone of some kind of genre. But what I measure both anime and anything else I watch is by one thing: my enjoyment. Not epic storytelling, bizarre backgrounds or unique situations. What I like and consider good, are two different things. I loved House of the Dead, the movie. I knew exactly what the director was getting at, random nudity, violence and kick ass fight scenes, since that was exactly what I was in the mood for, it was enjoyable to me. Was it good as a movie? No, the plot was almost non-existent, the characters were one-sided, and it was cheesy. I also loved the Lord of the Rings triology, that movie had it all love, friendship, great battle scenes and it was crisp and well done film. But I can easily bring it down to House of the Dead's level because I enjoyed both equally, since both appealed to me in different ways, and the messages that both directors were trying to get through came to me, with little or no confusion.

Lets say, I want some philosophical thriller to make me question what I think I know, I'll watch Ghost in the Shell, deals with all sorts of issues while at the sametime, keeping me interested. Now there's a Batman:TAS (If you haven't noticed I love my Bats

) episode entitled "His Silcon Soul" which dealt with morality and mircochips, both totally different in the sense that GitS was an epic 2 hour movie in a world of its own and with a style of its own, while the Batman episode was a twenty minute short with very few characters, and a far shorter, and to the point plot. I enjoyed both immensely, because both gave me what I wanted, the type of entertainment I was seeking, great action scenes, and storytelling, and both left me with the message that the directors wanted to leave with me. And that's the mark of what I measure both.

Ebichu is hilarious, its funny because of its perverted and just random as hell. But most will agree, that the show is drawn horribly. But I also watch Sealab which is equally as badly "drawn" but the show itself had me laughing as much as it did Ebichu, again, two totally different styles of comedy, giving me the one thing I wanted: laughter. Something is bad to me, when the topic that's trying to be projected towards me is either skrewed or lame. Let's say Ebichu actually had a deep plot while Sealab didn't, how can Ebichu be better then Sealab if both give me the one emotion I was looking for?

But I digress, and I'll say it again, if it invokes into what you wanted out of what you are watching, while also entertaining you, then its good weither its an over-complicated plot, or a straight-forward start-to-end story. Its all good.

As Nas says "No idea's original there's nothing new under the sun, its never what you do but how its done."

Prince of Chronics - GI Joes EXtreme(or Xtreme one of those) was a mid 90s to late 90s re-hash of the original GI Joes, I really don't remember much execpt one episode when the Joes floating island (so Cobra couldn't find them) was somehow infltrated and it got blown by the Cobra's it was a really sad episode.

P.S.: wsheit - I just want you to understand, I know exactly what you're trying to say through your posts and this thread, I was merely telling you, how I rate stuff personally, I mean I would never tell someone to watch House of the Dead when I know there's a better alternative that they might enjoy, even though I loved it, I mean its all my opinion anyway.

But really if you enjoy something simpler as much as you enjoy something much more complex, what's the real difference?

I enjoy both sides of the field, only difference is one is from Japan, and the other from Amerca. And I really don't want this to turn into a Japan vs. America argument/flame war, and if it does I won't be involved, theres somethings not worth having a flamewar about, and this is one of them.

2004-09-28, 08:52	Link #29
Gevurah What you say?!?! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: In a place where I don't want to...	Shit, talk about memories. I'm surprised Thundercats or Silverhawks weren't mentioned yet (unless they're somehow anime). Dinosaucers rocked as well considering they played it usually right after Robotech on Fox back in the day (i.e. early 80s). Another series that caught my attention was the Dino Riders. It got less episodic later on in the show when they went after the Ultrasaurus, but that show never bored me. The Bots Master was pretty cool too. I really liked the cheesy premise with the dude who fought against that uber-conglomerate with his robot inventions in his underground house. I just didn't like busting out the 3d glasses every 3 seconds when action popped up. Batman Beyond surprised me. I didn't like the whole premise of Batman in the future, kinda like the whole Spiderman 2099 and crap, but I liked the neo-dark atmosphere. When I watched "Return of the Joker," I fell in love with it because the animation was pretty top notch for an American Cartoon. But nowadays, American cartoons just don't have the same appeal to me as before. It seems as if they're leaving the semi-mature issues to anime, which they import and horribly edit for broadcast, and focusing on really cheesy stuff. The only exceptions I can see now are the Simpsons, King of the Hill, Family Guy, Spongebob (I really hated that show until I sat down and watched a couple episodes). Oh now that I think about it, there were a couple toons on MTV that really caught my eye, such as the ever wicked Aeon Flux (which is becoming a movie) and the Maxx. Those were pretty badass during the mid 90s. __________________ "I appear to be a plushie, but my heart is that of a wolf." - Kon

2004-09-28, 10:05	Link #30
Radd Just Married, Oct. 28th! Join Date: May 2003 Age: 45	I really hated both Thundercats and Silverhawks, to the shock and dismay of many of my peers, but while many people these days thing both they, and shows like Transformers and Inspector Gadget were somehow anime, they are not. __________________

2004-09-29, 21:17	Link #34
cindialai Tsukimori Join Date: May 2003 Location: Canada	definately not martin mysteries I think spongebob squarepants is funny, so is ren and stimpy... __________________

2004-09-29, 21:52	Link #36
Prince of Chronics One Piece fan Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada	JubeiYamazaki pretty much nailed most of my favorites (though I've never heard of GI Joes Xtreme)... but I would like to add the Fox Kids Xmen, Spiderman, and Batman series.... and who could forget M.A.S.K and Disney's Gargoyles?....those were some of my favorite cartoons of all time... definitely up there with some of my favorite Japanese cartoons like One Piece, FMA, Naruto, etc... __________________ MyAnimeList page

2004-09-28, 01:18	Link #21
Fronzel Schmuck Join Date: Nov 2003	Jem! Damn close to magical girl anime, if I remember correctly.

2004-09-28, 01:24	Link #22
mememe hmmm baka Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Australia Age: 37	oops, sorry misinformation, anyway what happend in Gargoyles I stopped watching it way before it got crappy, but I still wanna know what happened. Yeah Pirates of Dark water was good, I liked the bird, half monkey thingy (I've forgotten the name). Anyone remember Beast Wars? edit: yes Jem was cool!

2004-09-28, 02:48	Link #25
hooliganj Team Player Join Date: Apr 2004	Gargoyles was great while it was running in syndication at 11 pm, but then Disney bought the ABC network and needed to fill up their Saturday morning lineup. They noticed they already had an animated show on that channel (yeah, it was produced by Disney all along) that was pulling in good ratings even in an awful time slot, and decided to try to make some more money off of that. They quickly realized that as it was, it was not suitable fare for Saturday mornings, but rather than leave it where it was doing well, they tried to clean it up, and lost the magic, just like Disney's been doing to everything else ever since Walt died. What makes it even sadder, is that Gargoyles was just hitting its stride. The end of the second season, with the return from Avalon, the 'Future Tense' episode, the whole Midsummer Night's Dream story, and the big finale, was the best that show had ever been, and it looked like it was only going to get better. I was a big fan of the Mouse when I was a kid, but when they gutted Gargoyles it made me think again.

2004-09-28, 06:27	Link #26
mememe hmmm baka Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Australia Age: 37	yeah ok pm me with the details cause what your talking about doesn't ring a bell! or better yet just write what happened here and don't worry by the looks of it, with the release of old cartoons done up, eg. x-men and the new x-men, it'll probably be put in a new cartoon a few years down the track. If not I'll make them do it!

2004-09-28, 06:59	Link #27
VenomSymbiote Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004	Can't believe noone's said The Real Ghostbusters yet. Not the Extreme ones from a few years back, the original ones from the early 90's. That was my all time favorite cartoon as a lad, and I always felt the animation was beyond a mere toon. Maybe it's just my love for it from a kid, and heck still today, but I really wish animators put as much effort into shows today like they did with The Real Ghostbusters. And I will whole heartedly agree with Batman: The Animated Series. Mark Hamill = Only Joker voice, period. He does it so well.

2004-09-28, 10:41	Link #31
Zyan Member Join Date: Dec 2003	Nobody mentioned Spawn? I remember watching it on HBO. Pretty good stuff.

2004-09-28, 14:00	Link #32
hooliganj Team Player Join Date: Apr 2004	I'll trump Spawn with The Maxx, which was actually about something above and beyond the cheesey comic book plot. As for old Saturday morning cartoons, I watched a lot of stupid stuff when I was a kid, but for something better than the average, hmmm... maybe Cadillacs and Dinosaurs? I was all hopped up on sugar at the time, so my memory's a bit fuzzy.

2004-09-29, 21:02	Link #33
ubb Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004	Invasion America was only suppose to last a few episodes, I actually forgot about watching it until it was mentioned here. It wasn't a bad show, but it was never meant to be aired for a whole season. I think I would still like beast wars right now even if I haven't watched it when I was 10.

2004-09-29, 21:39	Link #35
JubeiYamazaki Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003	I so loved my Batman:TAS, so perfect for its time in so many ways, imo: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...31&postcount=8 Others that hit it for me: Batman Beyond, Superman:TAS, Gotham Knights, Justice League, and Justice League Unlimited, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Sealab, Exosquad, Wild C.A.Ts, Real Ghostbuster, the original TMNT, original He-Man, G.I. Joes, and G.I. Joes Xtreme, Silver Hawks, Gargoyles, original Transformers and Home Movies, to name a few. So loved all those shows.

2004-09-30, 00:32	Link #37
LK_LoA Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004	Meet the anime standard? I didn't know that there's an ISO-9000 standard for anime. (j/k) A lot of people can reminiscing about their favourite anime shows but the title is somewhat inappropriate. With anime from CrayonShin-chan to Ghost in the Shell, how can you ascribe a standard on such diverse genre (which only common feature is that it was drawn rather than acted)? Oh, Batman:TAS was good.