Problem: 'I'm right, therefore you're wrong for not agreeing!' culture

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Clearly the point has been lost beyond salvaging and people are taking mortal offense at the drop of a pin

But clearly we're going in circles now and people are blowing this out of proportion.

Am I one of these people? Because if I am I apologize, I don't think there's anything wrong with anything you've said here and certainly didn't intend to come across as rude or closedminded in any way.

I know that the bit about Shakugan no Shana might have seemed rude, but that was just me raging against the guys that posted back then and taking random pot shots at them, nothing to do with you :[

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

* - Of course, I also realised that the names I have marked, alongside Demongod86, are regulars for the game of SC2, and are also frequently complained against for their "offensive posting". Is there a plot against SC2 players, or is this a small part of a greater conspiracy regarding the ongoing war between Japanese and Korean pop culture, where these people are marginalised just because they enjoy SC2?

All of us here had alot more in common than we realise. So why the hate when we can find a similar stand to take?

Wat, at first I get accused of being a tsundere and now a kuudere. I guess that's an upgrade.

As for Sc2, it's because competitive gaming leads to much douchebaggery on the net, far far worse than on your average forum. In fact, some people are plain scum and we used to dub them "creep colonies" (or tumors for you sc2 minded folks) In general, if you can't stand people saying mean things about you, don't play online games. :S

We hate because we have frustrations in life. But yes, we really need to view the other side as a human being.

Of course, my posts are hardly offensive. I am so glad to have friends that make me look moderate.

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Clearly the point has been lost beyond salvaging and people are taking mortal offense at the drop of a pin - illustrating exactly what has sickened me in recent discussions.

If, as relentlessflame says, open discussion is not the purpose of AS, then so be it.

Well, it's more like open discussion is not a means to an end, not that it shouldn't be allowed.

But clearly we're going in circles now and people are blowing this out of proportion.

So I think it's best a moderator lock this thread. Solace, Skyfall, relentless - whoever is on, just lock this.

The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

Well, honestly, I don't really think anyone's been too hostile, in fact there's at least one poster that referred to you as "bro" in a non-sarcastic tone. We can try harder to work things out, but whether it happens or not is up to the individuals.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

If, as relentlessflame says, open discussion is not the purpose of AS, then so be it.

Now hold on: I never even said or alluded to that. I said we're not a debate club, but debates can happen here. We have to accommodate a lot of people who have a lot of different reasons for being here, and those reasons could include just wanting to hang out with people with similar interests. We all have to get along.

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

All I asked for was that people would have respect for someone that says '8/10. I like this show! But here's a couple of things I'm not so keen about in this show.' It's that bit and the reactions that come with it that are disgusting me. If the hardcore '10, anyone who doesn't think this show is perfect can die in a fire' fans are simply going to be allowed to tell the fans who have a reasonable like for the show that they have no right to be a fan or participate in discussion, I don't consider that a healthy community. THAT has been the issue people have brought up to me privately.

You know what? Here's what I want you and everyone else "who have brought this up privately" to do: I want you all to send, via PM or Reports, real examples of this behaviour. You are saying that people are blowing this out of proportion, but this if anything is a huge exaggeration in my view.

What I see on a regular basis is that certain posters tend to not show any tact when critiquing shows, and they say things in such a way that imply or insinuate that the people who enjoy the show have "objectively poor taste". After this happens enough times, people get mad, and get overly-defensive and start telling people to just leave already, which causes the critics to believe that people don't want to hear any negativity when it's the arrogant holier-than-thou attitude that is grating. (Sometimes I think some people can come across this way without realizing it.)

People who like a show but have some legitimate criticisms don't usually get flamed, and actually I often see interesting discussion result from such comments. Even dedicated fans of a show won't agree about every single thing in every single episode, and there will be disagreements about this or that. Otherwise, what the heck would we be here to talk about?

If there are bad apples in our bushel, help us find and eliminate them. The way to do that is: report. All opinions are welcome, as long as they're stated in a tactful, respectful way. You might disagree with me or any of the rest of the staff about what constitutes "tactful and respectful" from time to time (opinions! we all have them!) but the sort of behaviour you're describing is never okay. None of the staff would accept it, including me. If you point it out specifically, we will investigate. Pointing it out "generally" doesn't help.

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

I am a person who strongly advocates for the individual and for freedom of speech IRL. I am not a state-oriented person and never will be. [...]

But clearly we're going in circles now and people are blowing this out of proportion.

So I think it's best a moderator lock this thread. Solace, Skyfall, relentless - whoever is on, just lock this.

You know, after all this, now I'm pissed off. Why did you even bother starting this thread in the first place rather than just reporting the problems like you're supposed to do? Did you just want to whine? And what of these anonymous people who have been approaching you? Why don't they try to have the problem fixed by talking to the staff? And now that other people are trying to present their own view of the problem (which in some cases is similar, and others dissimilar to your own), you're whining that they're missing your point and telling us to lock the thread? And this right after you say that you strongly advocate freedom of speech?

If this is the way you approach discussions and disagreements, why are you so surprised when people get mad at you? How is your behaviour right now so different from "I'm right, therefore you're wrong for not agreeing"? Hint: it isn't.


How to deal with this issue in the future:

1. Report all problematic posts.

2. Contact a staff member privately to discuss your specific concerns. Provide real, tangible examples.

3. Use this forum to talk about clear, visible problems and offer actionable recommendations. Do not use this forum to rant that humanity doesn't live up to your idealized standards, or to be a voice for other anonymous people who haven't tried taking the above steps to deal with their personal problems.


And though it annoys me to do this, thread locked. If we want to have a real conversation about differences of opinion, don't start with a vaguely accusatory premise. That is exactly the sort of behaviour that causes problems in the first place. We need to try to understand each other, not divide even further into factions.

[monir]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

You do see the inherent contradiction in what you are asking for, don't you?

As many people have already noted, how would you make the problem "go away", short of setting up a fully-armed corps of Thought Police?

In some ways, your request reminds me of the ongoing rage between mainstream media and supporters of "new media". The latter group is only too happy to celebrate the anarchy of new media, relishing in the liberties of anonymity. Those few among them daring enough to voice their discomfort with the often puerile and banal "discussion" brought up in such media are immediately shouted down for being closet supporters of the Big Bad Censor.

Meanwhile, professional journalists continue to do their jobs as best as they can — checking their facts, keeping a close watch on their use of language, and carefully exercising editorial judgment, ever conscious of their role as a "gatekeeper" of information. And for all that, they get accused of being lapdogs of the Establishment^TM.

And now, you come around demanding more moderation, more gatekeeping, broader oversight over online behaviour, and so on. Basically, you want more watchmen. The irony, when compared against the larger context I illustrated above, is simply delicious.

I'm not going to score any brownie points for this, but I'd just politely remind you to consider the demographics of this forum, and also the target audience of most anime. It's not hard to put two and two together to see why such behaviour is more prevalent here than in those other forums you frequent.

That is one of the reasons I realised some time ago that I ought to make public my actual age. It occurred to me that some people may be repping me while thinking that I'm some high-school or college kid who sounded unusually mature. The possibility of giving a false impression bugged me enough to finally decide to reveal more about my real identity and, over time, I've given away more and more of my private information.

In short, there came a time when it just felt wrong for me to hide behind total anonymity.

It worked for me. Simply because I expect people who are 30 and above to behave a certain way. I don't feel that is too much to ask for, simply because that is precisely what I'd expect of such people in real life. It also puts pressure on me to behave, and I'm always conscious of the need to set an example.

If you ask me, that's the real way to solve this "problem". Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

People like yourself and the-old-man Seji keep making me come back to this forum after all these years!!!