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Old 2017-02-10, 18:55   Link #3321
Hokoga
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You guys and possible gals are bitching way too much about his parents.
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Old 2017-02-10, 18:58   Link #3322
Rasen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albatros View Post
it's the godess that shoked me:does the autor plan some sort of redemption for her?see,no long ago i would have called her the bug!
Probably no redemption for the Bug.

From Makoto's parents POV, she was like a Tsundere friend. But that's because she likes beautiful hyumans, which we already knew.

I mean look at all the stuff she does for hyumans. The unlimited blessings, two heroes from another world, some still-unknown trump card, prime real estate.....

She treats all hyumans like her children. Children that she never wants to grow up or defy her, and should always worship her and love everything she did. But if they're not pretty....well, look at what happened to Makoto.

Last edited by Rasen; 2017-02-10 at 19:42.
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Old 2017-02-10, 22:59   Link #3323
coded321
He Who Games
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokoga View Post
You guys and possible gals are bitching way too much about his parents.
logically, we know that everything can't be rainbows and sunshine, but the parents' story still gives a bad taste in our mouths, can't help the feeling...
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Old 2017-02-10, 23:39   Link #3324
Keitaro hutako
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Truth be told I actually giggled a little when makoto's father said the Goddess is a tsundere and his mother just added more tsun since there wasn't enough
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Old 2017-02-10, 23:52   Link #3325
decoysheep
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I can kinda understand the rabid hatred of makotos parents but I agree, they were teenagers at the time and the mom just went for the bad boy. no one's even commenting on how the dad won her back at all, which for typical ntr stories doesn't happen. isn't it ntr prodical that the cucked has to be spineless and cry when he finds out? also as its been mentioned the goddess is only kid gloves with pretty people and if you have decent folks you know you're number 1 in your parents eyes no matter how average you are. unfortunately average looks in bugs eyes is a sin that needs to be flung to the end of the world to get raped princess Knight style.
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Old 2017-02-11, 00:36   Link #3326
Corvo269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decoysheep View Post
I can kinda understand the rabid hatred of makotos parents but I agree, they were teenagers at the time and the mom just went for the bad boy. no one's even commenting on how the dad won her back at all, which for typical ntr stories doesn't happen. isn't it ntr prodical that the cucked has to be spineless and cry when he finds out? also as its been mentioned the goddess is only kid gloves with pretty people and if you have decent folks you know you're number 1 in your parents eyes no matter how average you are. unfortunately average looks in bugs eyes is a sin that needs to be flung to the end of the world to get raped princess Knight style.
You guys are kinda missing the point that it can't even be NTR when the mom got seduced by the demon before she even got to know the dad. Their engagement initially was for political purposes only. The dad only got to know and love her later
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Old 2017-02-11, 08:02   Link #3327
Hokoga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decoysheep View Post
I can kinda understand the rabid hatred of makotos parents but I agree, they were teenagers at the time and the mom just went for the bad boy. no one's even commenting on how the dad won her back at all, which for typical ntr stories doesn't happen. isn't it ntr prodical that the cucked has to be spineless and cry when he finds out? also as its been mentioned the goddess is only kid gloves with pretty people and if you have decent folks you know you're number 1 in your parents eyes no matter how average you are. unfortunately average looks in bugs eyes is a sin that needs to be flung to the end of the world to get raped princess Knight style.
I don't know if saying he "won her back" is the right way to describe what happened.

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Originally Posted by Corvo269 View Post
You guys are kinda missing the point that it can't even be NTR when the mom got seduced by the demon before she even got to know the dad. Their engagement initially was for political purposes only. The dad only got to know and love her later
No before that happened they loved each other.
Spoiler for Exra 4:
And I have no idea where you got this from, but there was no mentioned of it being a political engagement.
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Old 2017-02-11, 08:34   Link #3328
J4n1
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The side story 4 kinda gave me a better image of the goddess.
I don't expect any redemption arc, and i fully support Makoto kicking her ass and even killing her.
But my opinion of her is marginally higher than it was.
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Old 2017-02-11, 08:39   Link #3329
evilgenius
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its pretty clealry stated


Spoiler for 'z':


this is NTR at his best haha
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Old 2017-02-11, 09:10   Link #3330
Ruki0089
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See, she is that kind of woman... Guess, she had another adultery...
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Old 2017-02-11, 09:46   Link #3331
Rasen
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Originally Posted by Ruki0089 View Post
See, she is that kind of woman... Guess, she had another adultery...
...Based off what?

A one-time affair as a teenager?

This is like all those rabid idol-fans, who once they find out the idol has a boyfriend or is not as pure as the untouched VIRGIN snow, start screaming "WHORE! WHORE!" Once they find out the idol is not perfect in absolutely EVERY way, then the idol automatically becomes the WORST POSSIBLE person out there.

At least with idols, I sorta get it. Because so much time and effort (and possibly money) was spent imaging the person was a certain way. And reality contradicting that is sort of a betrayal of all that. But I can almost guarantee that up until THIS chapter, people have spent less than 2 minutes wondering about what Makoto's parents are like. So what the hell?

Last edited by Rasen; 2017-02-11 at 10:09.
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Old 2017-02-11, 14:34   Link #3332
m4rc0s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasen View Post
...Based off what?

A one-time affair as a teenager?

This is like all those rabid idol-fans, who once they find out the idol has a boyfriend or is not as pure as the untouched VIRGIN snow, start screaming "WHORE! WHORE!" Once they find out the idol is not perfect in absolutely EVERY way, then the idol automatically becomes the WORST POSSIBLE person out there.

At least with idols, I sorta get it. Because so much time and effort (and possibly money) was spent imaging the person was a certain way. And reality contradicting that is sort of a betrayal of all that. But I can almost guarantee that up until THIS chapter, people have spent less than 2 minutes wondering about what Makoto's parents are like. So what the hell?
hahah, i too, do not understand so many hate, and i myself have read this chapter ages ago, i have found something so normal and clearly a plan from the devils that i have not even put as spoiler in the topic before.

since you have mentioned idols ; In the end i believe we need to find a art work of makoto's mom, and have her remove all her hair as apology for her affair to the people in the tread and all her fans out there in the world.

and all the people in the thread seems to forget the fact that after her affair, he have found her, asked her to marry again; traveled the world and reached fucking level 300+, something that many people here seems to forget ,again, because our mc is so OP, but for normal players in that world level 300+ is already top notch and takes years for them to achieve,be aware that outside of our "outer world party" and some Op entities, there is no normal "hyuman" who have being given the level 300+, the only one close to it, was the one who faked in the first city, or tomoke's slaves that he have power leveled himself. and this shows a lot.
this makes a good measurement of how many years they must have taken to complete the bug trials, and how many more situations of life and death they had, for someone to even suggest that she had new affairs in our world, something that would be impossible as well because the severity of their situation.
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Old 2017-02-11, 15:39   Link #3333
Hiro Hayase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasen View Post
To be fair, there's a lot more in the way of Hibiki forming a secret truce with the demons than her grudge.

1) There's the demon's grudge against hyumans
2) The fact that (currently) Hibiki has no reason to want to ally with the demons,
3) Hibiki is on the hyumans' side,
4) Hibiki doesn't have a big objection to the BUG, except for the treatment of demi-humans. (Not much sympathy for her enemies who have tried to kill her multiple times)

Hibiki is pretty rational, but (for now) she is also firmly in the Limia camp.
That's social capital. Zero relationship with the demons or any form of mutual trust between them for negotiations to bear any fruit.

Spoiler for End of Limia visit arc:


Makoto POV extra~

Quote:
She transported us to Limia in a very comfortable manner. You know, like how she sent me down before, in the beginning.
The trip was so comfortable that I really wanted yell thank you right next to her ear while amplifying my voice with magic.
Wonderful words of sarcasm from our lovely MC.

Quote:
Also, why is she dressed like one of the heroines in my eroges?
Heh... Tamaki is an expert in that area; Makoto's fetishes. Soon. Very Soon.

Quote:
The CEO of Kuzunoha Company is here, Have at thee.
You are a King, Makoto.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The parents did in fact travel together for quite some time while clearing the hard trials of BUG until they asked to leave the world for Earth. Makoto's parents probably got sick of that world after the trials. Plus the BUG was very vague on what she would take from them and Makoto's parent's didn't know that she would be so partial to pretty people and hyumans only.

Furthermore, its more Netori than Netorare in the end result.
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Last edited by Hiro Hayase; 2017-02-11 at 15:50.
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Old 2017-02-11, 15:57   Link #3334
Rasen
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Originally Posted by m4rc0s View Post
and all the people in the thread seems to forget the fact that after her affair, he have found her, asked her to marry again; traveled the world and reached fucking level 300+, something that many people here seems to forget ,again, because our mc is so OP, but for normal players in that world level 300+ is already top notch and takes years for them to achieve,be aware that outside of our "outer world party" and some Op entities, there is no normal "hyuman" who have being given the level 300+, the only one close to it, was the one who faked in the first city, or tomoke's slaves that he have power leveled himself. and this shows a lot.
this makes a good measurement of how many years they must have taken to complete the bug trials, and how many more situations of life and death they had, for someone to even suggest that she had new affairs in our world, something that would be impossible as well because the severity of their situation.
I dunno. I think the reason most people are low-leveled is the fault of the goddess spoiling them.

Assume each level gives the same increase in stats, so that a person at level X is half as strong as a person at level 2X. Then with the Goddess's blessing + The Goddess cursing, a level 100 person can fight equally with a level 400 demon.

No wonder hyumans are considered top-class at level 100. They could beat most anything in the world. Especially since levels are harder to get the higher they are. But I'm sure this is part of the goddess's plan. She doesn't want her hyumans to waste time fighting or getting scars, or developing muscles. She wants them to spend all their time looking pretty and applying makeup.

But if hyumans ever try hard, I think their growth is pretty amazing. Look at Toa's party, I think they reached level 400 (300 levels in a REALLY short time). And Makoto's students have learned some crazy cheat abilities. (And lest we forget, I believe Makoto was confirmed as a pure hyuman.)
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Old 2017-02-11, 16:02   Link #3335
J4n1
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Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase View Post
You are a King, Makoto.
But also a CEO, kinda.
While i wish he'd figure out his position in the world, that was pretty funny.
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Old 2017-02-11, 16:06   Link #3336
Garn
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^^^^
Hatred comes from one's own opinion, from the feeling of "if it were me," you can not blame that. If you can bear the fact that the woman you love deceived you "completely and conscientiously" without any kind of feeling of loss, then you have less right to reproach, it will be a novel, but the subject matter is real and those situations really hurt.

Taking part of the comment of "anton mr" of diqus in lnbastion

Spoiler for :


"What happened before or after does not matter, the problem is that it was in the course".

^^^
In the end it was a complete netorare "all the way", netorare is an event, not an infinite state, the mother consciously followed the demon in every sense, and at the end she does not regret it, is not netori because in the first place she was already in a relationship with the father. The only victim was the father.
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Old 2017-02-11, 16:09   Link #3337
m4rc0s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasen View Post
I dunno. I think the reason most people are low-leveled is the fault of the goddess spoiling them.

Assume each level gives the same increase in stats, so that a person at level X is half as strong as a person at level 2X. Then with the Goddess's blessing + The Goddess cursing, a level 100 person can fight equally with a level 400 demon.

No wonder hyumans are considered top-class at level 100. They could beat most anything in the world. Especially since levels are harder to get the higher they are. But I'm sure this is part of the goddess's plan. She doesn't want her hyumans to waste time fighting or getting scars, or developing muscles. She wants them to spend all their time looking pretty and applying makeup.

But if hyumans ever try hard, I think their growth is pretty amazing. Look at Toa's party, I think they reached level 400 (300 levels in a REALLY short time). And Makoto's students have learned some crazy cheat abilities. (And lest we forget, I believe Makoto was confirmed as a pure hyuman.)
for more information about why they are low leveled, you must remember root's plans and how he formed the adventures guilds, it is hard for a reason, and almost impossible for beings outside of the "normal" to go higher level this is root's plan from the beginner to more or less control the hyumans population, so for hyumans is fair harder than you may think to even reach 100-200.
And no, they do not gain stats by pure leveling; the level is a summary of their abilities, and only that; they do not gain outside forces by gaining levels, it is pretty clear by root standards, and this is also the reason of why he do not know why makoto is still 1 since he is pretty clear out of standard be with mana or body power.
About toa and his party, there are beings of heavy power leveling them, in this case by Mio since makoto ordered it, it have multiples mentions of it in the history, and they are only at later 2xx earlier 3xx, there is no mention of them going 400 + as far i remember, even after so many power level by Mio, so again they would enter in the same category as tomoki's slaves, since they are being power level by someone far stronger than normal.
And makoto and his sister are pure hyuman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garn View Post
^^^^
Hatred comes from one's own opinion, from the feeling of "if it were me," you can not blame that. If you can bear the fact that the woman you love deceived you "completely and conscientiously" without any kind of feeling of loss, then you have less right to reproach, it will be a novel, but the subject matter is real and those situations really hurt.

Taking part of the comment of "anton mr" of diqus in lnbastion

Spoiler for :
like you said; the rage comes from one own feelings, this is why i never have said that they are wrong, only that i do not see why so many hate because For me the netore is a event like you have said, but this is by far a reason for rage and hate;if they had hate for the event itself i would agree but they are putting the blame on the mother and in the end she is only a victim as well since there is clearly a plan from day1. in my opinion there is multiple facets to a characters and define them by only one event is wrong, even more one that have happen by a clearly a inside "plan", so you could even say that she is the victim, yes there is ntr, but she was being used from day one.
If the person likes to see only one "event" of the character and hate them for it, i would still do not agree with them and this is coming for someone who totally agree with your vision of Mio but in the end i would still evaluate how the events unfold as well before start hating her, since in this case the events speaks by them self showing that the mother was in fact a victim and she does regret it this is show by her determination of future events since before she was being used by her naivety and immature ideals.
and i complete dissaggre with your statement that "What happened before or after does not matter, the problem is that it was in the course". since you have yourself said that is a "course" so how could you complete negate what have happen before and after? if it's a course you need to follow it through to the end to see it's result and the end we know already, Ntr have happen, there is multiple reason for that that mainly turn the mother in a victim just as big like the father and in the end they are happy and together in our world.
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Last edited by m4rc0s; 2017-02-11 at 16:52.
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Old 2017-02-11, 16:13   Link #3338
J4n1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasen View Post
I dunno. I think the reason most people are low-leveled is the fault of the goddess spoiling them.
I'd put more blame on most people who try to get to high level dying in the process.
Higher your level, more you need to work for next level, bigger the risks get and more changes to get unlucky appear.

Just pick some not utterly cakewalk mmo for example, and try to hit max level without ever dying.
Can be done, but most people will either get bored from the slow progress and quit (equivalent of dying of old age in this metaphor i guess), get over confident and die from taking too big a challenge, are randomly attacked by a mob they did not notice, die because of lag or bugs (no, not the goddess), or get killed by other players.

Simply put, most people don't try to get to high level because they either don't need to, or it is not worth the risk, and those who do try, usually either take long time to do so, or die.

And as Makoto's students (and Makoto himself) prove, levels are not everything.
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Old 2017-02-11, 16:14   Link #3339
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garn View Post
^^^^
Hatred comes from one's own opinion, from the feeling of "if it were me," you can not blame that. If you can bear the fact that the woman you love deceived you "completely and conscientiously" without any kind of feeling of loss, then you have less right to reproach, it will be a novel, but the subject matter is real and those situations really hurt.

Taking part of the comment of "anton mr" of diqus in lnbastion

Spoiler for :


"What happened before or after does not matter, the problem is that it was in the course".

^^^
In the end it was a complete netorare "all the way", netorare is an event, not an infinite state, the mother consciously followed the demon in every sense, and at the end she does not regret it, is not netori because in the first place she was already in a relationship with the father. The only victim was the father.
But it is not you and the character most affect doesn't care. This isn't is even a "insert yourself in MC" type of novel/game. The event that happens to a couple of side characters is completely irrelevant to you or anyone around you.
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Old 2017-02-11, 16:31   Link #3340
Rasen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4rc0s View Post
for more information about why they are low leveled, you must remember root's plans and how he formed the adventures guilds, it is hard for a reason, and almost impossible for beings outside of the "normal" to go higher level this is root's plan from the beginner to more or less control the hyumans population, so for hyumans is fair harder than you may think to even reach 100-200.
And no, they do not gain stats by pure leveling;
Speaking of Root's plan, IIRC, he and the Goddess interfered with the way the world worked so that by killing others, you absorbed some power from them. In other words, you get stat gains.

And that the stat gains are supposed to be so addictive (like gaming) that people recklessly try to keep leveling and get themselves killed.

Levels give power (not abilities), and the more you chase levels, the more likely you'll get killed.

Found it: (Chapter 105)
If your level increases, you will get stronger. Of course, even without knowing that number, by defeating mamonos and doing war, you will not see the number, but it will certainly show the changes. But just by making it a simple to understand number, their enthusiasm increases. And so I, for the sake of speeding up that enthusiasm, intervened in this world’s system. Well, I only made it so that the power absorption they gain from others is increased though. In words that Makoto-kun would understand better, it is like increasing the experience gain”

And

Chapter 109:
"Moreover, there’s no sense of inconsistency in their body that should be felt when one levels up and gains power. They were able to properly use the increased power as their own. It was mysterious."

Quote:
the level is a summary of their abilities, and only that; they do not gain outside forces by gaining levels,
Er, no. Look at Makoto's students. They didn't gain any levels while they were taking his classes, but then when summer break happened they killed a bunch of monsters and went up 8 levels.

If levels were a measure of ability, they would have already gotten the levels.

Chapter 109:
"Right now, our party of seven are in a forest that is slightly apart from Rotsgard. The objective is level up. It is normally something that is impossible to forget, but since the time we entered Raidou-sensei’s class, we practically haven’t increased our levels. Probably not only me, Amelia Hopelace, but also Jin who stands at the front of battle and decides on his objectives, and the Rembrandt sisters who have just joined the class, must be the same. In Raidou-sensei’s class there’s no practices for increasing levels, moreover, seeing that my level has not increased from the latter halves of 40, I might have been feeling bitter.

But I think that the number one reason lies in Raidou-sensei. That sensei’s class is a strange class where one gets strong even without increasing levels.
"

Raidou's class taught them skills, so they didn't level up but still got stronger.

But after killing a bunch of monsters by themselves, by the time they meet the dragon, the students gained 30 levels. In two days.

Quote:
About toa and his party, they are being heavy power leveling by Mio since makoto ordered it, it have multiples mentions of it in the history,
I don't recall Mio being ordered to party with Toa. And doesn't the guild system prevent people whose levels are too different from forming parties?

Also, this is another sign that Levels represent power, not skills. Riding on the Mio bus means you don't learn skills. And Toa is skilled enough to beat Hibiki, who was also in the 400s (and did not have a Mio bus)

Quote:
and they are only at later 2xx earlier 3xx, there is no mention of them going 400 + as far i remember, even after so many power level by Mio, so again they would enter in the same category as tomoki's slaves, since they are being power level by a being far stronger than normal.
Chapter 27. Toa's party is level <=130
Chapter 91. Toa's party is average level 450.

Last edited by Rasen; 2017-02-11 at 17:00.
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