Tsuki ga Michibiku Isekai Douchuu (月が導く異世界道中) [WN]

[Garn]

^^
Certainly does not affect the reader, but one not only reads because wants to repeat words in different order, one reads to immerse in the reading (I think that is the goal in the act of reading), certainly the characters accept it but not for that One will. It's like the nonsense of "Turn Your Brain Off", is to have no criterion of what is done.

You do not need the novel / play to be "insert yourself in MC". You're just telling me to read a text like a student reading aloud in class what the story teacher tells him to read.

[Garn]

On the other hand, if the author put that situation with the parents, Makoto may be an illegitimate child, or later a more interesting event is developed in relation to this one. If left in the forgetfulness would be a waste.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Garn

On the other hand, if the author put that situation with the parents, Makoto may be an illegitimate child, or later a more interesting event is developed in relation to this one. If left in the forgetfulness would be a waste.

Eh....even if Makoto is illegitimate, he's a middle-kid so at worst, he's a human/hyuman.

[m4rc0s]

makoto ordered it; there is multiples passages in the novel where we have this; makoto mainly have told Mio to taken care of them allowing for a free risk leveling, where she would multiple times taken them to do requests, allowing the free risk where she would kill many of the mobs, or let them fight in one x one and so on, search on one of the chapters focusing on Mio, where makoto ordered her to make tsige her base, where tomoe would be around the world collecting intel, and the result of Mio turning tsige in her "base of operations".

About the levels, when i was reading the novel in raw, i have not get to understand the power gain from level that way, and even in the English translation you have pointed out, at least for me there is a far bigger difference what have being written than simple level gives power.
in my view as someone reading the raw and even after reading the English you have pointed out: i would still be by my side of how things work out that goes like this :
If you kill someone stronger than you; you learn by it; you learn by fighting him-her; and so on; by using mana-spells you mana would grown and you would be better and thus reflect it on their level: this is the interpretation i had when reading the novel and this is from where the experiences comes; not something magical like simple killing would result in power.
to show in a way as learning increase their level, i would like to point out this sentence for you; that you have put your self!

Originally Posted by Rasen

Chapter 109:
[I]"Right now, our party of seven are in a forest that is slightly apart from Rotsgard. The objective is level up. It is normally something that is impossible to forget, but since the time we entered Raidou-sensei’s class, we practically haven’t increased our levels. Probably not only me, Amelia Hopelace, but also Jin who stands at the front of battle and decides on his objectives, and the Rembrandt sisters who have just joined the class, must be the same. In Raidou-sensei’s class there’s no practices for increasing levels, moreover, seeing that my level has not increased from the latter halves of 40, I might have been feeling bitter.

reigokai translation are up to notch and i have not in any form mean harm in saying.
But this word "practically" indicate that they have leveled, even if only a little, and later on we have "my level has not increase" . those two Phrase should not be together in the same sentences, since one completes negates the other, i'm not gonna go search all the raws for all the quotes because there is no place to do this here, even more because would create far bigger problem for the translation and i do not want to do it; is just how i have interpretation the entire leveling process when i was reading and so on, other could have as well, and there many times where the author changed his mind in minor details-explanation from chapter 1 to 250, this is because we are reading the webnovel version, maybe if i ever read the LN version those minor inconsistency would go away but i must say that I have not seen nothing wrong with it at first time i read because i had this mentality on me from reading all other chapters; but if they gain stats and experience by killing enemies, why would not all children be level 1? since we have many examples of this in the beginner, focused on why makoto is level 1, something that should be impossible because even children who never killed monster and so on are not level 1; this shows that by gaining knowledge would also reflects in their own power and thus be show in levels, this is my interpretation at least; killing monsters and fighting by putting your knowledge on practice would cause a faster leveling as well, the simple by fighting you learn more than just theory.
what we call experience could be multiples things than simple the "number" experience like we have in mmorpg, what i want to say is; the novel focus more on the abstract way of leveling, where experience is not numbered by "numbers" but by a abstract value that with Root's knowledge he could determine a number.
this is how i have read it so far and how i remember because it have been so long as well since i started reading and those earlier chapters like the one from toa levels for example i have not remember unless there is many passages in multiples chapters saying so like again of how Mio have being helping them, so i'm far open to both possibilities working together, but killing being the only way to gain levels i'm against it, because the novel i have being reading does not show it this way.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by m4rc0s

makoto ordered it; there is multiples passages in the novel where we have this; makoto mainly have told Mio to taken care of them allowing for a free risk leveling, where she would multiple times taken them to do requests, allowing the free risk where she would kill many of the mobs, or let them fight in one x one and so on, search on one of the chapters focusing on Mio, where makoto ordered her to make tsige her base, where tomoe would be around the world collecting intel, and the result of Mio turning tsige in her "base of operations".

Can anyone confirm this? I know Makoto ordered Mio to act as an adventurer and take on requests. I do NOT recall him ordering her to protect Toa.

reigokai translation are up to notch and i have not in any form mean harm in saying.
But this word "practically" indicate that they have leveled, even if only a little, and later on we have "my level has not increase" . those two Phrase should not be together in the same sentences, since one completes negates the other,

The two sentences do NOT negate each other. Read the whole sentences.

"we practically haven’t increased our levels" - it means there HAS been some change, but very small.

"seeing that my level has not increased from the latter halves of 40" - It means that her levels could have changed from 46 to 47. As long as her level didn't start at less than 45 or reach 50, this statement remains true.

And as she presumably had OTHER classes, it was because of the other classes that she gained any levels at all (until the summer vacation)

Originally Posted by m4rc0s

but i must say that I have not seen nothing wrong with it at first time i read because i had this mentality on me from reading all other chapters; but if they gain stats and experience by killing enemies, why would not all children be level 1? since we have many examples of this in the beginner, focused on why makoto is level 1, something that should be impossible because even children who never killed monster and so on are not level 1;

What makes you think children have never killed? This world is a magic and sorcery world with monsters in it. With no videogames. You know what children (tiny psychopaths) do when they're bored?

In Extra chapter 4 (the one about Makoto's parents):
"Children living in the villages or cities treasure the specially-designed cards and comparing their own levels recorded on the cards is fun for them. In most cases, children only hunt small animals until they safely reach level 10."

Whatever your view is on the Levelling system, Root designed it so that people gain stats with a level-up. Maybe knowledge applies a multiplier, or (I suspect), knowledge lets you kill more creatures quicker.

And in chapter 91:

There was a time when Hibiki who was particularly stuck to the idea of levels, didn’t understand why she lost to Toa who has a lower level than her, and had to ask.

“When I was in Zenno, I was like that. Well, aren’t levels just one of many indicators?” (Toa)

Is what Toa thought as she remembered the masked merchant.

“Having a high level is just proof that you have killed a lot. You shouldn’t feel strength from a number but with your body” (Mio)

I think you're applying too much importance to the meanings of Levels. I think the author has stated many times that you gain Levels through killing and absorbing energy/power from the kill, and with Levels come stat increases. That's just how the system Root designed works. And remember, Root designed the Leveling system based on the RPGs his husband used to play. Leveling would not be nearly as addictive if it were ONLY a measure of how much you killed. It has to have the power/stat increases to make people want to do it more.

But Levels are not the ultimate measure of strength.

[Darius Drake]

^ On how I think that levels work. Personally, I don't think that it's knowledge that make's levelling easier. Instead, I think that it's training that makes levelling up easier.

The benefits of a level up is presumed to be essentially just some manner of an increase in power. "Some Manner" being anything from an increase in strength to an increase in durability. So how does it do this? By forcefully transforming your body so that it matches the requirements for the level. As such, by training yourself to a certain level beforehand, the amount that the transformation requires to actually transform is either lessened, or otherwise made easier due to your body already being being in a state closer to what the transformation needs.

Basically, it's the difference between (in the One Punch Man Universe) a malnourished, unfit Saitama starting and proceeding with the One Punch Man Workout System, and a healthy, fit and well trained person who could easily do the listed exercise attempting the One Punch Man Workout System. Saitama got insane results because he was starting at nothing. A person who's already at the level where it's easy wouldn't really get anywhere near as much out of it, but would have an easier time at it.

The one's who only gain power from levelling are the malnourished Saitama struggling to do 100 push ups, by the way, while the students are fit people.

[Sparteh]

It would be quite fun to see Makoto's power being truly judged in terms of level.

[akbarsanjaya]

Back to spoiler guys...

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Darius Drake

^ On how I think that levels work. Personally, I don't think that it's knowledge that make's levelling easier. Instead, I think that it's training that makes levelling up easier.

The benefits of a level up is presumed to be essentially just some manner of an increase in power. "Some Manner" being anything from an increase in strength to an increase in durability. So how does it do this? By forcefully transforming your body so that it matches the requirements for the level. As such, by training yourself to a certain level beforehand, the amount that the transformation requires to actually transform is either lessened, or otherwise made easier due to your body already being being in a state closer to what the transformation needs.

I don't think it's anything that complicated or fancy. Again, I suggest looking at it from an RPG perspective.

The Goddess' automatic blessing and/or curse has made hyumans lazy and stupid. As a result, when it comes to fights, they didn't have to learn tactics. They just powered through the fight like a bulldozer.

This is best illustrated during the school competition. Students TAKE TURNS whacking at each other with their swords, casting spells. This is basically playing a game on "Auto mode."

Now think about how leveling works in a traditional RPG. If you fight an enemy more powerful than you, you get more EXP. If you fight an enemy weaker than you, you get less.

If you fight your battles on "Auto-mode," (like regular hyumans) you have to restrict your enemies to ones that are weaker than you. Or else you run a chance of dying. But if you understand tactics, or look for weaknesses (like Jin and others), this lets you even fight enemies stronger than you.

This is why Amelia comments that enemies who used to require being surrounded to be killed (and it was still a tough fight), were now being killed so easily by only a few students.

Knowledge lets you fight fewer monsters and get more EXP at the same time (and probably less time too). We might even take the logical extension of Root's system (absorbing energy from the killed), and say that the smaller the party that kills, the more EXP per person (because it's divided among party members).

It is no surprise then, that Jin and the others level faster and easier than regular students (who are basically farmbots)

[kazzuya]

The father still couldn't fully the wife till now. That is the reason why he is working at home and he doesn't go to any book signing tour.FYI his work is a light novel author.
Furthermore Makoto's sisters still doesn't where his true whereabouts are. But Makoto's bow and sword instructors both know.

[Darius Drake]

Originally Posted by Rasen

I don't think it's anything that complicated or fancy. Again, I suggest looking at it from an RPG perspective.

The Goddess' automatic blessing and/or curse has made hyumans lazy and stupid. As a result, when it comes to fights, they didn't have to learn tactics. They just powered through the fight like a bulldozer.

This is best illustrated during the school competition. Students TAKE TURNS whacking at each other with their swords, casting spells. This is basically playing a game on "Auto mode."

Now think about how leveling works in a traditional RPG. If you fight an enemy more powerful than you, you get more EXP. If you fight an enemy weaker than you, you get less.

If you fight your battles on "Auto-mode," (like regular hyumans) you have to restrict your enemies to ones that are weaker than you. Or else you run a chance of dying. But if you understand tactics, or look for weaknesses (like Jin and others), this lets you even fight enemies stronger than you.

This is why Amelia comments that enemies who used to require being surrounded to be killed (and it was still a tough fight), were now being killed so easily by only a few students.

Knowledge lets you fight fewer monsters and get more EXP at the same time (and probably less time too). We might even take the logical extension of Root's system (absorbing energy from the killed), and say that the smaller the party that kills, the more EXP per person (because it's divided among party members).

It is no surprise then, that Jin and the others level faster and easier than regular students (who are basically farmbots)

I wasn't actually talking about that. I was talking about the fact that the demerit against being Power Leveled was that leveling up, particularly doing so quickly, both hurt and was exhausting, in and of itself. The combat bit of it that you're focusing on is correct and obvious, but not what I was actually talking about.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Darius Drake

I wasn't actually talking about that. I was talking about the fact that the demerit against being Power Leveled was that leveling up, particularly doing so quickly, both hurt and was exhausting, in and of itself. The combat bit of it that you're focusing on is correct and obvious, but not what I was actually talking about.

Has there been any indication that leveling takes a toll on the users? It's a magic world, and I don't think there're any obvious physical changes. (i.e., everyone still looks trim and pretty)

The closest I've heard of was when Amelia said:
"Moreover, there’s no sense of inconsistency in their body that should be felt when one levels up and gains power. They were able to properly use the increased power as their own. It was mysterious."

I just chalked that up hyumans (during level up) suddenly being a little faster, a little stronger, and usually needing time to adjust to it. (like imagine if you suddenly were as strong as Superman. You'd be shattering things left and right) Whereas I figured that Jin and company have been pushing their bodies hard and becoming really skilled at body control, so they adjusted much quicker.

[Hiro Hayase]

Originally Posted by Rasen

Spoiler for Quote:

Has there been any indication that leveling takes a toll on the users? It's a magic world, and I don't think there're any obvious physical changes. (i.e., everyone still looks trim and pretty)

The closest I've heard of was when Amelia said:
"Moreover, there’s no sense of inconsistency in their body that should be felt when one levels up and gains power. They were able to properly use the increased power as their own. It was mysterious."

I just chalked that up hyumans (during level up) suddenly being a little faster, a little stronger, and usually needing time to adjust to it. (like imagine if you suddenly were as strong as Superman. You'd be shattering things left and right) Whereas I figured that Jin and company have been pushing their bodies hard and becoming really skilled at body control, so they adjusted much quicker.

About Raidou telling Mio to help power level Toa's party, yes he did. Tomoe also comes to adventure with them sometimes whimsically. Mio adventures with them for cooking tips and information about ingredient locations later too. It's usually mentioned in passing or as a minor detail (one or two sentences) in the regular chapters. You might find an example in the Mio pov chapters of the main story where she meets Hibiki.

Also, in typical stories with RPG like settings, the level up bonuses require sleep to update the status. And power leveling exhausts lower levels both mentally and physically.

------------------------------------

Chapter 204~

Makoto's discrimination towards hyumans was blatantly obvious. There's a line Makoto will not cross in intereactions with hyumans. The BUG and overall hyuman society as well as the incident in Asora is to blame for that origin.

Everyone look forward to Mio's scheme! Once that girl uses her head she's scary! Tomoe is overthinking it, Makoto does care about Asora since he did cry and regret for the Orc that died more so than the hyuman he killed.

Shiki misdirected that conversation... he wanted to put Amelia down so far down the well of despair, and then later bring her hopes up so high to the extent that she would be attached to Shiki and love him more. Shiki doing Lich things with mindbreak and conditioning Amelia.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase

About Raidou telling Mio to help power level Toa's party, yes he did. Tomoe also comes to adventure with them sometimes whimsically. Mio adventures with them for cooking tips and information about ingredient locations later too. It's usually mentioned in passing or as a minor detail (one or two sentences) in the regular chapters. You might find an example in the Mio pov chapters of the main story where she meets Hibiki.

Huh. I guess I'll keep that in mind.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mio or Tomoe occasionally accompany Toa, but I definitely don't recall any "Power-level them" order.

Edit: Found some questionable proof about Tomoe helping to power-level Toa's group. It's in Chapter 48. I say questionable because it's a POV from the female adventurer who Makoto kills. (Which means she may or may not be coming to the correct conclusions. For someone who prided herself on her intuition, she also thought Makoto was Mio's servant, and that Mio was Tomoe's boss. *shrugs*)

Also, in typical stories with RPG like settings, the level up bonuses require sleep to update the status. And power leveling exhausts lower levels both mentally and physically.

But is there any indication of this in THIS story? We at least know sleep isn't necessary to update the status in this story. Amelia and company went up multiple levels in the course of a single day, and unless we think they took...15 naps in the middle of a monster-infested forest....

[leobreaker]

Makoto didn't exactly say power level them but said help them with quest, words were be different but intention was same. He wanted to make Toa stronger so he didnt have to worry about her.

Author didn't explain clearly about how levelup work he just explain how and why level up started. That's why we also didn't know why makoto's level not going up, author gonna explain this thing later that time we will know how exactly levelup works. I'm surprise makoto wont ask to his follower about not leveluping nor his follower or root comment about it so we would have gotten some idea about leveluping.

[Hiro Hayase]

Originally Posted by Rasen

Huh. I guess I'll keep that in mind.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mio or Tomoe occasionally accompany Toa, but I definitely don't recall any "Power-level them" order.

Edit: Found some questionable proof about Tomoe helping to power-level Toa's group. It's in Chapter 48. I say questionable because it's a POV from the female adventurer who Makoto kills. (Which means she may or may not be coming to the correct conclusions. For someone who prided herself on her intuition, she also thought Makoto was Mio's servant, and that Mio was Tomoe's boss. *shrugs*)

It's not explicit, but implicit. Knowing Tomoe and Mio, they tend to go overboard... look at Tomoe training Misura for example.

But is there any indication of this in THIS story? We at least know sleep isn't necessary to update the status in this story. Amelia and company went up multiple levels in the course of a single day, and unless we think they took...15 naps in the middle of a monster-infested forest....

No idea since I never cared much about the system since Makoto and co. don't do any adventurer requests anymore.. well there are some off screen but otherwise none. However, I get the impression that after a level up or several of them at once, it makes an individual more excitable or reckless. Hence, increasing the chance of their own mortality rate.

In Makoto's case for being level 1, I suspect that he has so much mana at his disposal it makes analyzing him return errors and the default is at level 1. Or that the power given by Tsukiyomi has placed Makoto outside the BUG's world system.

----------------------

Chapter 205~

Mio never change! Hibiki is about to get the Grount baptism.

Lime should get an award for not fainting after these revelations lol.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase

It's not explicit, but implicit. Knowing Tomoe and Mio, they tend to go overboard... look at Tomoe training Misura for example.

They do go overboard, but only on things they care about. Mio doesn't give a Dos Equis about anyone aside from Makoto, and it would take an explicit order to make her do something she has no interest in. For instance "Don't kill Zara. And if he's in trouble, save him."

No idea since I never cared much about the system since Makoto and co. don't do any adventurer requests anymore.. well there are some off screen but otherwise none. However, I get the impression that after a level up or several of them at once, it makes an individual more excitable or reckless. Hence, increasing the chance of their own mortality rate.

Pretty sure that the reason for the increased mortality rate has to do with Root basically turning gaining strength into a game, not any particular side-effect from leveling.

From chapter 105:

“Excess will destroy one’s body. Ruffians, freelancers, dreaming younglings as well. Aiming for success, they become strong, and somewhere along the way, they miss their footing at a step. Levels, ranks, rewards; there are truly a lot of adventurers that have lost their lives in the requests of the guild.....(Root)

....

“But to say that everyone goes mad with greed. Even they should know when to pull back” (Makoto)

“The ones that are able to act in that way are the successful ones, Makoto-kun. Even if they are unable to become kings. Using the guild system in an efficient way and obtaining a reasonable income, that is already a good enough success. You are free to believe me or not, but misjudging by a little step is how hyumans are. In fact, there are many people registering as adventurers every day, and yet, the amount of adventurers in itself hasn’t increased that much. If we take into account the time when the Goddess disappeared, it actually decreased. People that keep dreaming about the wasteland, labyrinths and quick cash, die in amusing ways” (Root)

And found a little more about how the Leveling system works, from the person who designed it.

“In short, increasing levels makes your base power rise right? Ability and experience, as well as talent, are not values that are taken into account in levels, is what you are trying to say. Tch, it feels vexing that I am losing to Mio, but if that’s the truth of it, there’s no real need to go through the trouble of raising it huh” (Tomoe)

“Well, that’s how it is. It varies depending on the race as well, so it doesn’t mean you can’t beat them. It is only like a reward for the strong ones by the world after all. No matter if you are a saint or a villain, as long you are able to kill someone of your same capacity, you will be able to obtain strength equal to that. It is like the complete opposite of the Goddess’ blessing, so it is better to not believe in it blindly.

[Keitaro hutako]

Originally Posted by kazzuya

The father still couldn't fully the wife till now. That is the reason why he is working at home and he doesn't go to any book signing tour.FYI his work is a light novel author.
Furthermore Makoto's sisters still doesn't where his true whereabouts are. But Makoto's bow and sword instructors both know.

Wait... Why does makoto's sensei knows about his whereabouts...? But not his sisters?
And how did they even know? As far as I can remember, both of the instructors doesn't know why he went to another country just to study and his sword instructor saw talent in him and kept pestering the bow instructor to let him train Makoto(I also remember someone mentioning the bow instructor's name...in which I forgot)

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Keitaro hutako

Wait... Why does makoto's sensei knows about his whereabouts...? But not his sisters?
And how did they even know? As far as I can remember, both of the instructors doesn't know why he went to another country just to study and his sword instructor saw talent in him and kept pestering the bow instructor to let him train Makoto(I also remember someone mentioning the bow instructor's name...in which I forgot)

I though Makoto's bow instructor is the same person as his sword instructor (because Hibiki learned from the same person)?

[kazzuya]

Originally Posted by Rasen

I though Makoto's bow instructor is the same person as his sword instructor (because Hibiki learned from the same person)?

Makoto's bow instructor is a black ops sniper female. While is his sword instructor is a warrior type man that is an acquaintance of his bow instructor. And he found Makoto to be quite amusing and planned to have Makoto as his legacy disciple. The thing that he like about Makoto is that he has zero talent in both the bow and the sword and he overcome and surpass it with nothing but perseverance and will power.