2011-06-15, 15:37 | Link #22901 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Before EP5 I didn't even understood the river was a railway really...
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2011-06-15, 15:41 | Link #22902 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: England, UK
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Uh, having only read the first novel (after watching the anime) I came to the conclusion that the culprits were Genji and Nanjo. But everyone probably already knew that and I'm either gonna be ignored or spammed about my idiocy...
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2011-06-15, 15:48 | Link #22903 | |
Ars Magica Translator
Join Date: Oct 2010
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2011-06-15, 16:18 | Link #22905 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: England, UK
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To be honest though, my main standing point would be the absence of their alibis. |
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2011-06-15, 16:26 | Link #22906 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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The part where the adults are discussing about the epitaph. At a certain point with the fixed translation it becomes clear that they all know what is the "beloved homeland".
Because of that the very next part where we learn that Eva went there it becomes clear that she went to that place they are all thinking about (and yet they don't mention). The brief description Eva made of that place was enough for Oliver (after a few researches) to narrow it down to only two possible places, one of which was Taiwan. Before the translation was fixed, everyone would think that Eva went to Odawara and therefore nobody even started to think about which kind of place she went to. EDIT: I guess you want to know for translation purposes, here's the sentence: Quote:
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2011-06-15, 18:07 | Link #22908 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Honestly when I watched the anime(which was before I read this), I figured this was one of those stories where the magic is ''real'', but it's catalyst to powering it was belief(not totally uncommon), meaning it wasn't some metaphor for some special warm fuzzy feeling, but happens in the most literal sense. Sort of like Fate/Stay night's magecraft, where it can only work if it is scientifically possible in reality, although FAR less useful than that as there had to be a literal method that could be performed by humans here and it had to have matching scenarios completely.
I thought Battler was aware of many Fantasy scenes, like when Beatrice told Battler about the candy that Beatrice threw in the air, which did happen by magic. But would alter reality if he could explain a human method, and then turn into something that could be naturally done. Hence Beatrice would have to slowly prove she exists by doing low level magic and then going much higher. Needless to say this series really confused the hell out of me on my first go through. I like the theory hagaruma made though, that's pretty close to what I started thinking halfway into Umineko. |
2011-06-15, 19:12 | Link #22909 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
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I thought this idea too when ep 8 came out as a way to help explain meta-world's existence+the ending scene at house Fukuin+there was a beautiful comic someone did on pixiv that followed this idea but the author idea/metaphors galore make a strong argument against.
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2011-06-15, 22:39 | Link #22910 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Meta-Battler = "intended audience?" Lambdadelta = "editor who enables the books publication, keeps writer in check"? Bernkastel = The INTERNET ? It can be taken further - I think Erika's aggresive detective work is a result of the fandom's backlash against Battler being such a "go with teh flow" detective, interpreted as "The author has Battler being a lazy ass to keep us away from relevant information. A REAL detective would be duct-taping the vents and shit." Cue Erika. Or, a simpler one - Meta Battler becoming Game Master equates to R-Prime Battler (Toya...?) finally either figuring the solution, or regaining his memories, thus he's qualified to write new stories because he knows the "rules and solution". Getting to the point, I do wonder how the Blue / Red truth equates up into R-Prime. Like, when you go to buy your copy of 'Turn', is it literally printed as something like "Rosa retrieved the two master keys from the envelope. Genji, Shannon, and Godha offered theirs as well, to help their standing in the eyes of Rosa, who took all five keys into Maria's purse. There are only 5 Master keys, one for each servant. "Are you satisfied now, Rosa oba-san? asked George dejectedly. "Like a boss, George. Like. A. Boss." Meanwhile, in the study..." ... ... that's not too unreasonable, actually... ... |
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2011-06-16, 03:14 | Link #22912 |
Ars Magica Translator
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Uh, thanks for the explanation. I didn't understand you're talking of that part
In Italian translation we thought carefully how to render the Epitaph parts, especially in Ep3. So I thought we missed something, fortunately it's not so XD
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2011-06-20, 18:42 | Link #22913 |
Senior Member
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The new Tip that was released recently is quite neat I have to say. At least I think it hasn't been translated already, so I decided to do so.
We actually get an answer for the mystery of the knock. But be careful, it's something that shouldn't be read before EP8. Spoiler for TIP Forgery No.XXX:
It's nice how Ryűkishi can't stop writing in the Beatrice persona...well I imagine it must be fun. But he's right...he really did put an eternal torture on us. |
2011-06-20, 19:46 | Link #22914 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Thanks for the translation, haguruma.
Looking through the TIPS index on umineco.info, I realized that a couple of other new ones slipped under my radar. Did anybody ever translate "Jessica and the Electric Murder Fan" or "Rokkenjima Investigation File"?
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2011-06-22, 08:35 | Link #22916 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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At some point you would figure there'd be a more interesting solution to things than "lol someone lied." I mean hell, if you want I can write a mystery where every interesting thing that happens was actually just lied about, but it'd kinda make me an asshole.
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2011-06-22, 13:29 | Link #22917 | |
Senior Member
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But it's not even that much if you think about it and consider the reason each person lied...it's a constant theme of Umineko after all, so it's bound to appear more often. In the end lying is the basis of every impossible crime situation. Be it the culprit lying actively or witnesses/suspects lying to protect themselves and involutarily helping with the creation of the illusion. But "a lie being the only component of a crime" did not happen THAT often in Umineko. We had the chained locked-room in EP1. Well okay, probably all of EP4. The knock at the door in EP5. But apart from that there is nothing that is basically only constructed by a lie, even though of course somebody lying is a part of the solution. |
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2011-06-22, 13:31 | Link #22918 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Again with the infamous "Land".
God fucking dammit. Stop teasing so much with it R07. Anyway, just to clarify something, this TIP takes place before "Twilight," right? Quote:
Lies, damn lies and forgeries.
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2011-06-22, 13:45 | Link #22919 | |
Senior Member
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Also, if you consider the fact that it says that the torment will continue for all eternity, I think that it implies that while the people in Ange/Yukari's 1998 might be gone, the Meta-Battler and Meta-Beato as well as all the others of course live on as long as we continue thinking about those theories... So I think it can be seen as a parallel ending to Twilight. It's similar to Saikoroshi-hen in Higurashi Rei where... Spoiler for Saikoroshi-hen:
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2011-06-22, 15:09 | Link #22920 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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