2011-10-08, 21:12 | Link #261 | |
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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They must still be on good terms though, since 8-Bit worked on the production of both Macross Frontier movies and are teaming up with Satelight for next years Aquarion EVOL. |
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2011-10-08, 21:14 | Link #262 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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The main reason I oppose "reveling in failure" is precisely because you never know when it'll be a show you like (and think was great) that sells poorly. As was said, the market can be cruel, but it's the ultimate judge. There are a lot of reasons why shows do or don't sell, and they don't always have anything to do with "quality"... or even with the show itself. There's a fair bit of money to go around (overall sales are up), but it's still finite. If too many people invest in popular show X, some of those people may not end up investing in niche show Y... even if they may have purchased niche show Y if it aired at a different time or in a different market climate. These are the sorts of gambles the producers take -- sometimes they win, sometimes they lose.
So I think it's rather presumptuous for anyone to attribute a show's success or failure to only objective factors. There will surely be shows that you dislike that sell like hotcakes, and shows that you loved that are total market bombs. That doesn't mean the market was wrong... but that also doesn't mean your opinion about the show is wrong either. It's just "a" measure of success. An important one, granted, but not the be-all-end-all. People shouldn't necessarily feel justified in their opinions when a show they didn't like fails, nor should they necessarily feel vindicated when a show they like sells well. That's way too simple a view of a complicated situation. And all that said, yes... my main objection to the original comment was about "showing tact". There are certainly ways of saying things that are less needlessly provocative.
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2011-10-08, 21:52 | Link #263 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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My only intention was to express that Croisee really isn't my type of show, and not the direction I hope the industry decides to take. The industry decided it valued other shows of the season more (Which I don't necessarily like either), but I'm relieved that such a thing will not result in the industry swinging the very direction I wish to not see it go to. That's me putting it less bluntly, and if it's really that big of a deal, I really don't know what to say.
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2011-10-08, 22:08 | Link #264 |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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Respectfully, without having seen the show in question, I don't think you can judge Reckoner's point on its merits. Fact is, Ikoku Meiro wasn't a moe show in my opinion, and that of many other admirers. It was a very subtle character study and the fact that some can't see anything except a "moe show" because one of the characters is cute doesn't make it any less of a good show.
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2011-10-08, 22:27 | Link #265 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Anyway, the second reason I wasn't in favour of that post was because I didn't really want us to get into a big discussion over whether the show is good or not, or whether Reckoner's opinion of the show is reasonable/justified or not. So if you want to discuss Croisee as a show (what it is, what it contains, the style of show it is, etc.), I'd ask that you go to the show's thread. We can discuss the sales of the show (and others) in here.
Thanks...
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2011-10-08, 22:43 | Link #266 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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It seems more than a few people took issue with my bluntness in this thread, so I'll step back and apologize for coming off badly. Sorry for offending anyone and hopefully we cannot dwell on this any longer.
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2011-10-08, 22:56 | Link #267 |
You're Hot, Cupcake
Join Date: Aug 2008
Age: 42
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Croiserre had a few things that was always going against it.
1. It didn't really seem to target a paying audience properly. In all honesty, I don't see a clear demographic that would buy it. It wasn't a moe show so the moe crowd wasn't going to pay for it. The setting in France was a limiting factor - it's been proven time and time again that otaku are more likely to buy what they can relate to. Classic example is what happened with Baccano and Durarara. Baccano didn't sell well in Japan due to its US setting and its divergence from the source material. Durarara - set in Ikebukro, has a couple of bishies, Japanese context. People associate with it and buy it. 2. As for the character chemistry, it wasn't unique that season. It was airing the same time Usagi Drop did. Another show with an older male taking care of a younger female. 3. If you're going for the relaxed mood, you become heavily reliant on the aesthetics and the characters. The visuals were okay but nothing special. The characters kept making me think about Usagi Drop and Kurenai instead for comparative reasons, plus none of them really stood out for me. One fact about the industry at present is that you have to incorporate aspects of popular anime into a work in order for it to sell well. If you look at anything that cracked 10k this year, you'll find obvious reasons for why they sold that much. Marketing is 9/10 of the battle. People don't necessarily want a masterpiece as much as they want their fixes. Characters sell more than story/plot. Mood sells more than content. It's the way things are now. If you want financial success, you have to give the people what they want in some form. For the record, I value quality foremost, but I know that in the modern world, you need to effectively market/target a title more than make a quality title.
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2011-10-08, 23:13 | Link #268 | |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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I also can't help but note that Kamisama no Memochou and Kamisama Dolls have also been poor sellers - I'm not going to go out on a limb and see that the three would have necessarily been great sellers in other years, but there's a very strong case to be made that sales of all but a few of this year's summer shows have been lackluster.
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2011-10-08, 23:38 | Link #269 | |||
Senior Member
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One thing I would add to that is that Baccano's highly unconventional plot structure may have been a sales limiter (i.e. made it hard for some viewers to get into), whereas Durarara's plot structure was more conventional here. Quote:
I do think the two shows appeal to the same customers, and so direct comparisons may have factored into purchasing choices. As for your general points, I do think that quality, in and of itself, doesn't sell. Much like you said, for an anime to sell well it needs to have some sort of otaku hook to it, something that appeals directly to one or more of the otaku sub-fandoms (moe fans, harem fans, 'otaku culture' fans, magical girl fans, etc...). What I do think, though, is that quality becomes a sales amplifier (or limiter) if that otaku hook is in place. For example, I really do think that Madoka Magica being generally well-written, well-directed, and having pretty high production values, likely earned it 20 to 30 K more in sales than what would have been the case if it was an amateurish "slapped together" effort. Quote:
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2011-10-08, 23:51 | Link #270 | ||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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I've noticed this on a couple occassions, actually... often when you look at two shows with what appear to be somewhat similar appeals, you'll find one ends up being the decisive winner in sales. Not always, but it happens.
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2011-10-09, 18:55 | Link #272 | |
Hyakko Fanboy
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 32
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I'm just trying to be blunt here... DRRR!!! sells more than Baccano is just simply they attract more Fujoushi.. More marketable Chara is the primary reason.
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We don't have 4-5 mega hit that selling 100k+ like last year.
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2011-10-09, 21:01 | Link #273 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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2011-10-10, 06:23 | Link #274 | ||
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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Breakdown by year: 2000 - 2 2001 - 2 2002 - 7 2003 - 4 2004 - 4 2005 - 9 2006 - 6 2007 - 9 2008 - 13 2009 - 11 2010 - 11 2011 - 9 Summer season still has Idolmaster and Penguin Drum to come, though Idolmaster will be hurt by the PS3 Game bundle and Penguin Drum is no guarantee. Usagi Drop is another that might pop up. Fall has Persona 4, Gundam Age, Horizon, Working 2, Hagani as potential 10k+ series atm, Shana if it can repeat the performance of S1 and S2 is another chance and we'll see what happens with Guilty Crown, Last Exile 2 and UnGo. Fate/Zero would've been another 10k+ contender but has moved to BD Season Box Sets... but regardless 2011 could be the best year in the last 11 when it comes to hit series. |
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2011-10-10, 08:41 | Link #275 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
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2011-10-10, 10:13 | Link #276 |
You're Hot, Cupcake
Join Date: Aug 2008
Age: 42
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Haven't found anything about total year sales for anime in Japan before 2008. The trend from 2008 onwards has been an increase in sales/revenue each year.
However, manga sales in Japan peaked in 1995 at 24 billion volumes sold that year. Last year, only 6 billion sold. The manga industry is MUCH weaker than it was at its peak. As for the US, anime sales peaked in 2002 and manga sales peaked in 2007. But note very few titles crack the 5k mark in the US in anime or manga. There was a report recently that over the last few years, Baccano and Sekirei were the only two newly released TV series to crack that mark. I hope that is no longer true. Generally, re-releases of older classics or movie versions tend to heavily outsell newer titles. As for collective studio revenue, it peaked in 2008. The bigger studios are doing well while the smaller ones are struggling.
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2011-11-01, 13:53 | Link #277 |
Lurker
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New York City
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October 24-30
Blu-ray *1, 21,613 21,613 Tiger and Bunny vol.6 Limited Edition *2, 19,774 19,774 Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae wo Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai vol.5 Limited Edition *3, 13,800 13,800 Steins;Gate vol.5 **, *8,363 *8,363 (IS: Infinite Stratos Live Event) *4, *6,172 *6,712 Scryed Blu-ray Box *5, *5,444 *5,444 Natsume Yuujinchou San vol.3 Limited Edition *6, *5,390 *5,390 Uta no☆Prince-sama♪ Maji Love 1000% vol.2 *7, *5,216 *5,216 Mawaru Penguindrum vol.1 Limited Edition *8, *5,031 *5,031 Denpa Onna to Seishun Otoko vol.4 Limited Edition *9, *4,861 *4,861 Dog Days vol.4 Limited Edition 10, *4,774 *4,774 Ro-Kyu-Bu! vol.2 Limited Edition 11, *4,306 *4,306 Ao no Exorcist vol.5 12, *3,915 *3,915 The iDOLM@STER vol.1 Limited Edition 13, *3,791 *3,791 Mayo Chiki! vol.2 Limited Edition 14, *3,545 *3,545 A-Channel vol.6 Limited Edition 15, *3,245 *3,245 Usagi Drop vol.1 16, *3,126 *3,126 Hidan no Aria vol.5 DVD *1, 11,936 11,936 Gintama' vol.4 *2, 10,456 10,456 Hakuouki Sekkaroku vol.4 Limited Edition *3, *9,350 *9,350 Prince of Tennis: Another Story II - Ano Toki no Bokura vol.2 *4, *6,563 *6,563 Uta no☆Prince-sama♪ Maji Love 1000% vol.2 *5, *5,601 *5,601 Ao no Exorcist vol.5 *6, *5,481 33,854 Macross Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa *7, *4,053 *4,053 Natsume Yuujinchou San vol.3 Limited Edition *8, *3,812 *3,812 Ano Hi Mita Hana no Namae wo Bokutachi wa Mada Shiranai vo.5 Limited Edition *9, *3,433 *3,433 Sekaiichi Hatsukoi vol.5 Special Edition 10, *3,007 *3,007 Bleach Hamen Metsubo Hen vol.9 11, *2,735 *2,735 Starry☆Sky vol.9 Special Edition 12, *2,138 *2,138 Dog Days vol.4 Limited Edition 13, *1,957 *1,957 No.6 vol.2 Limited Edition 14, *1,820 *1,820 Nurarihyon no Mago: Sennen Makyou vol.2 15, *1,797 *1,797 Tiger and Bunny vol.6 16, *1,718 *1,718 Hidan no Aria vol.5 17, *1,549 *1,549 The iDOLM@STER vol.1 Limited Edition 18, *1,517 *1,517 Baka to Test to Shoukanjuu Ni! vol.2 19, *1,222 *1,222 Beelzebub vol.5 20, *1,191 *1,191 Gundam Evolve DVD Box 21, *1,167 *1,167 Keroro Gunsou 7th Season vol.9 22, *1,159 *1,159 A-Channel vol.6 Limited Edition 23, *1,127 *1,127 Denpa Onna to Seishun Otoko vol.4 Limited Edition 24, **,959 **,959 Nintama Rantarou 18th Season vol.6 25, **,944 **,944 Usagi Drop vol.1 26, **,934 **,934 Super Robot Taisen OG: The Inspector vol.5 27, **,873 **,873 SKET Dance vol.3 Deluxe Edition Single CD *2, 42,624 42,624 Beelzebub "Baby U!" *7, 14,902 14,902 Shinryaku!? Ika Musume "High Powered" *8, 13,948 13,948 Tamayura: Hitotose "Okaerinasai" 10, 11,146 11,146 Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai "Zannen Kei Rinjin Bu ★★☆" 11, *6,963 21,405 Fate/Zero "Memoria" 12, *5,162 76,362 Supernatural The Animation "In My Head" 22, *4,255 *4,255 Tamayura: Hitotose '"Kami-sama no Itazura" 23, *4,018 *4,018 Bakuman 2 "monochrome rainbow" 24, *3,906 16,801 Last Exile: Ginyoku no Fam "Buddy" 26, *3,529 17,486 Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon "Terminated" 27, *3,485 *3,485 Mirai Nikki "Kusou Mesorogiwi" 28, *3,386 *3,387 Mashiroiro Symphony: The Color of Lovers "Authentic symphony" 32, *3,005 23,816 C³ "Endless Story" 36, *2,631 *2,631 Maji de Watashi ni Koi Shinasai! "U-n-d-e-r--Standing!" 37, *2,626 *2,626 Beelzebub "Papepipu♪ Papipepu♪ Papepipupo♪" 42, *2,075 *2,075 Inazuma Eleven Go "Naseba Narunosa Nanairo Tamago" 47, *1,905 19,028 Mawaru Penguindrum "Nornir" 58, *1,434 *1,434 Sekaiichi Hatsukoi 2 "Sekai no Hate ni Kimi ga Itemo" 60, *1,346 *1,346 Nurarihyon no Mago: Sennen Makyou "Departure" Album CD *1, 26,869 26,869 Persona 4 Game "Never More Perosona 4 Rinne Tensho" 13, *6,187 *6,187 Uta no☆Prince-sama♪ Maji Love 1000% Unit Drama CD 28, *3,258 *3,258 Hatsune Miku Project Diva Arcade Original Song Collection vol.2 29, *3,243 *3,243 Starry☆Sky Film Festival vol.4 42, *2,486 *2,486 Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei DJCD SZ-03K 44, *2,434 *2,434 Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei DJCD vol.10 47, *2,221 *2,221 Dog Days Drama CD Box vol.2 Source:Oricon http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=360611
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Last edited by Knight Hawk; 2011-11-01 at 14:20. |
2011-11-03, 01:55 | Link #278 |
Criminal Unrequitor
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Either the sales of Mawaru Penguindrum and Idolmaster started later in the week or they really just weren't popular enough to break the 10k mark. Kinda sad because I was hoping for Anohana/IS/Tiger and Bunny like sales
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2011-11-03, 03:06 | Link #279 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Well, with Idolmaster, don't forget that the game was also released in a "super bundle" with the PS3 game, and all those sales aren't counted here. The remaining volumes will also be released in a bundle with PS3 mini-games (in addition to as standalones) and those game bundles won't be included in the BD count, so it's not going to be an apples-to-apples comparison. Apparently the PS3 game sold in excess of 60,000 copies, but it's not clear many of those are game-only and how many are game+anime bundle.
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2011-11-03, 07:53 | Link #280 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Actually I think it did pretty good all things considering.
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sales, statistics |
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