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Xion Valkyrie · 2012-12-10, 01:10

Okabe: Just As Planned!

Eisdrache · 2012-12-13, 02:52

Someone seriously snapped this chapter.

I always liked Okabe and Maya (yes I'm wicked) so the impending showdown between them is a treat to me.

Shadow5YA · 2012-12-13, 02:59

I like Okabe, but I don't like Maya. Okabe is interesting to me because while she showed some selfish and "corrupt" characteristics like Maya, she is far more complex than that and has kinder sides.

Maya's character is too shallow for me to find her character interesting. So she is self-centered and spiteful... okay, is that all she has?

Eisdrache · 2012-12-13, 03:34

There is still her back story with Okabe. It's most likely something small that only matters to Maya (like getting 2nd place in a beauty contest in school) but that's perfectly fine with me. The way I see her is someone with a an outstanding (although bad) personality that still has a lot of potential. Also she's cute :3

But before this turns into an argument about taste let's just say that it needs more Takamina.

Shadow5YA · 2012-12-13, 03:43

That hidden backstory makes me more curious about Okabe than Maya, because again, Okabe has shown that she is capable of many things, both good and bad, that the possibilies of what she could have done to Maya seem much more numerous than the possibilities of how Maya could have reacted to Okabe in the past.

One-trick ponies do not impress me, and that's all Maya is right now.

Von Himmel · 2012-12-16, 06:55

I find it horribly ridiculous to see that producer(?) trying so hard to destroy GJ performance

hope this arc will end soon

sa547 · 2012-12-16, 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Himmel

I find it horribly ridiculous to see that producer(?) trying so hard to destroy GJ performance

hope this arc will end soon

Using Maya as a weapon of mass destruction, he's so power-mad that bringing down the whole AKB franchise would be the greatest feat of his business, and so he'll do anything to win that goal.

Shadow5YA · 2012-12-17, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by sa547

Using Maya as a weapon of mass destruction, he's so power-mad that bringing down the whole AKB franchise would be the greatest feat of his business, and so he'll do anything to win that goal.

It's not hard to see why he's doing it, but that doesn't make it any better. Maya being a spiteful prude is fine since she's professional enough to hide it, but seeing the producer do that is entirely unrealistic and unprofessional.

The way the "villains" are being portrayed in such a shallow and two-dimensional manner is getting ridiculous.

Eisdrache · 2012-12-17, 16:11

>manga
>unrealistic

( ﾟДﾟ)

Shadow5YA · 2012-12-17, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

>manga
>unrealistic

( ﾟДﾟ)

That doesn't excuse bad writing. That's like saying the trainwreck that is Kimi no Iru Machi during the Tokyo arc is fine even though it's unrealistic in terms of character development.

Maya and her producer as a whole have been a poor group of antagonists with hardly any character depth.

Eisdrache · 2012-12-19, 13:45

Personally I believe the producer and &J fit into the story just fine. What exactly do you think should they have done better in your opinion?

Shadow5YA · 2012-12-19, 22:21

Make them a little less shallow and mustache-twirlingly "evil" and a little bit more morally ambiguous like early Okabe Ai.

It was fine when the producer talked about money and raising Maya to be a selfish spectacle. That's his business model. It's fine when he overrules GJ's appearance on stages and shows using his monetary influence. However, when he decides to directly sabotage their performance by messing with the microphone volumes like a panicking child, my suspension of disbelief stops there. Why get so desperate to ruin a group that he believes has little funding or monetary value? Not only is it unprofessional, it doesn't fit his philosophy.

Maya's antics are just repetitive. GJ loses an opportunity, Maya puts on her best smiling face in front of the TV. GJ one-ups &J, and Maya shows contempt. Throw in some internal dialogue of Maya name-calling when she's losing or some early "I win" quotes when she's winning. Unlike Okabe, there's no personal motive or characterization to elaborate on why she takes her selfish stance. We're just supposed to take it at face value and accept that's how she is and that she gets upset when the status quo is disrupted.
Well, okay, acting spoiled and entitled is fine for an idol antagonist, but is there anything more to it, like why she feels entitled to fame and glory? Is it because of her past? Is it because she feels that she put more effort into it than everyone else? Is it because she enjoys the attention?

Without any development on how Maya sees things, her character falls short and becomes nothing more than a forgettable stepping stone to show off Minori, Hiroko, and Okabe. If Maya is intended to be a major character that serves as a foil for what GJ represents, then she needs a more elaborate story on why she is who she is.

Let's hope the upcoming chapters provide us that.

Xion Valkyrie · 2012-12-19, 23:14

Well, just like in real life some celebrities are absolutely despicable yet continue to get fame and wealth. Just look at Chris Brown.

Shadow5YA · 2012-12-20, 01:53

The fact that Maya and her producer are despicable isn't the problem. They're the antagonists - making them likable was never a requirement. The problem is that as character sin a story, they are incomplete, making them nothing more than cheap plot devices. With the producer specifically, shutting off their microphones is just simply out of character.

Think of Kanye West's infamous "Imma let you finish" interruption during Taylor Swift's VMA speech. Now imagine that instead of doing that, he takes Taylor Swift's microphone during an actual concert, runs off with it, and never apologizes. There's a level of ridiculousness that even the most corrupt professionals won't do if they're smart enough to worry about their career image.

**Solace** · 2012-12-21, 02:59

The whole story is ridiculous. Minoru has been found out by the producers and a member of the A team. Several others have suspicions. He rarely acts feminine, and the art swings from "this is obviously a guy" to "there's no way this is a guy" constantly. He's left enough clues that in any serious story, he would have been outed and likely have taken Yoshinaga down with him, if not made her completely hate him. In real life, this would be a huge scandal that would tarnish the franchise.

Yeah, the "villains" are a bit silly and over the top, but ultimately this is nothing more than a feel good tale of positive virtues (minus the lying about gender - which is noted a number of times).

It's clearly being setup that Minori is on a meteoric rise, which can only mean a huge fall. How far will he go before this ends? What will happen when it does? How will he recover, and how will that affect the ending?

For a feel good story, even I'm moved by how the writer pours on the emotion. When the Kenkyuusei had to deal with Hiroko's problems, and battled for every ticket, that moment when Akimoto bought the last one was both predictable and an emotional release. When they were cut out of gigs by &Jewel over and over, I felt the anger and discouragement of the power of money and bad egos. And while this isn't technically a romance story, I find Minoru's devotion to Yoshinaga anything but creepy. It's very heartwarming, and I think deep inside we all wish we could find someone as devoted to our happiness.

So yeah, it's sappy, and stupid, and the plot is full of cliches, tropes, and ridiculous predictable asspulls and plot armor. And yet, this is such an amazing read, with unique characters that I've grown attached to despite the size of the cast. Heck I'm not really a fan of AKB or pop idols in general, and yet somehow the writer makes me want to be a fan, and he makes it exciting to read.

Really, it's like the writer is the teacher from the early chapters, giving tickets away to unconvinced people, believing that if they just took a chance on the show, they'd convert to being fans.

tsunade666 · 2012-12-21, 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solace

Really, it's like the writer is the teacher from the early chapters, giving tickets away to unconvinced people, believing that if they just took a chance on the show, they'd convert to being fans.

This I agree. I don't even know AKB aside from the anime AKB0048

but its a good read. Not a perfect one and the story probably is generic for the others but the ability of the story to hook up the reader is there and I will read it. I won't say I love it but I'm entertained and reading manga is for entertainment.

sa547 · 2012-12-21, 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solace

So yeah, it's sappy, and stupid, and the plot is full of cliches, tropes, and ridiculous predictable asspulls and plot armor. And yet, this is such an amazing read, with unique characters that I've grown attached to despite the size of the cast. Heck I'm not really a fan of AKB or pop idols in general, and yet somehow the writer makes me want to be a fan, and he makes it exciting to read.

Really, it's like the writer is the teacher from the early chapters, giving tickets away to unconvinced people, believing that if they just took a chance on the show, they'd convert to being fans.

This manga became one of my primers on how the franchise (and the idol system in general) works, and although the story may not be perfect, nonetheless it still entertains, and it doesn't shy away from some of the harsh realities of idol life.

You know what makes me happy about the protags? They don't live in multi-million-dollar estates.

Eisdrache · 2012-12-21, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solace

The whole story is ridiculous. Minoru has been found out by the producers and a member of the A team. Several others have suspicions. He rarely acts feminine, and the art swings from "this is obviously a guy" to "there's no way this is a guy" constantly.

Mayuyu also knows his secret

tsunade666 · 2012-12-21, 16:12

^but Mayuyu thinks his cross dressing.... a guy as a girl and not the other way around.

Eisdrache · 2012-12-21, 17:37

(that's the joke)

Mayuyu now thinks that Minori is a girl crossdressing as a guy for work but she believed that s/he was a real guy at the beginning.

2012-12-16, 06:55	Link #66
Von Himmel エーレンフェストの聖女 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dollars	I find it horribly ridiculous to see that producer(?) trying so hard to destroy GJ performance hope this arc will end soon __________________ 「何かが起こっても、わたくしが守ります」

2012-12-21, 02:59	Link #75
Solace (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006	The whole story is ridiculous. Minoru has been found out by the producers and a member of the A team. Several others have suspicions. He rarely acts feminine, and the art swings from "this is obviously a guy" to "there's no way this is a guy" constantly. He's left enough clues that in any serious story, he would have been outed and likely have taken Yoshinaga down with him, if not made her completely hate him. In real life, this would be a huge scandal that would tarnish the franchise. Yeah, the "villains" are a bit silly and over the top, but ultimately this is nothing more than a feel good tale of positive virtues (minus the lying about gender - which is noted a number of times). It's clearly being setup that Minori is on a meteoric rise, which can only mean a huge fall. How far will he go before this ends? What will happen when it does? How will he recover, and how will that affect the ending? For a feel good story, even I'm moved by how the writer pours on the emotion. When the Kenkyuusei had to deal with Hiroko's problems, and battled for every ticket, that moment when Akimoto bought the last one was both predictable and an emotional release. When they were cut out of gigs by &Jewel over and over, I felt the anger and discouragement of the power of money and bad egos. And while this isn't technically a romance story, I find Minoru's devotion to Yoshinaga anything but creepy. It's very heartwarming, and I think deep inside we all wish we could find someone as devoted to our happiness. So yeah, it's sappy, and stupid, and the plot is full of cliches, tropes, and ridiculous predictable asspulls and plot armor. And yet, this is such an amazing read, with unique characters that I've grown attached to despite the size of the cast. Heck I'm not really a fan of AKB or pop idols in general, and yet somehow the writer makes me want to be a fan, and he makes it exciting to read. Really, it's like the writer is the teacher from the early chapters, giving tickets away to unconvinced people, believing that if they just took a chance on the show, they'd convert to being fans. __________________

2012-12-21, 16:12	Link #79
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	^but Mayuyu thinks his cross dressing.... a guy as a girl and not the other way around. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2012-12-10, 01:10	Link #61
Xion Valkyrie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007	Okabe: Just As Planned!

2012-12-13, 02:52	Link #62
Eisdrache Part-time misanthrope Join Date: Mar 2007	Someone seriously snapped this chapter. I always liked Okabe and Maya (yes I'm wicked) so the impending showdown between them is a treat to me.

2012-12-13, 02:59	Link #63
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	I like Okabe, but I don't like Maya. Okabe is interesting to me because while she showed some selfish and "corrupt" characteristics like Maya, she is far more complex than that and has kinder sides. Maya's character is too shallow for me to find her character interesting. So she is self-centered and spiteful... okay, is that all she has?

2012-12-13, 03:34	Link #64
Eisdrache Part-time misanthrope Join Date: Mar 2007	There is still her back story with Okabe. It's most likely something small that only matters to Maya (like getting 2nd place in a beauty contest in school) but that's perfectly fine with me. The way I see her is someone with a an outstanding (although bad) personality that still has a lot of potential. Also she's cute :3 But before this turns into an argument about taste let's just say that it needs more Takamina.

2012-12-13, 03:43	Link #65
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	That hidden backstory makes me more curious about Okabe than Maya, because again, Okabe has shown that she is capable of many things, both good and bad, that the possibilies of what she could have done to Maya seem much more numerous than the possibilities of how Maya could have reacted to Okabe in the past. One-trick ponies do not impress me, and that's all Maya is right now.

2012-12-17, 16:11	Link #69
Eisdrache Part-time misanthrope Join Date: Mar 2007	>manga >unrealistic ( ﾟДﾟ)

2012-12-19, 13:45	Link #71
Eisdrache Part-time misanthrope Join Date: Mar 2007	Personally I believe the producer and &J fit into the story just fine. What exactly do you think should they have done better in your opinion?

2012-12-19, 22:21	Link #72
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	Make them a little less shallow and mustache-twirlingly "evil" and a little bit more morally ambiguous like early Okabe Ai. It was fine when the producer talked about money and raising Maya to be a selfish spectacle. That's his business model. It's fine when he overrules GJ's appearance on stages and shows using his monetary influence. However, when he decides to directly sabotage their performance by messing with the microphone volumes like a panicking child, my suspension of disbelief stops there. Why get so desperate to ruin a group that he believes has little funding or monetary value? Not only is it unprofessional, it doesn't fit his philosophy. Maya's antics are just repetitive. GJ loses an opportunity, Maya puts on her best smiling face in front of the TV. GJ one-ups &J, and Maya shows contempt. Throw in some internal dialogue of Maya name-calling when she's losing or some early "I win" quotes when she's winning. Unlike Okabe, there's no personal motive or characterization to elaborate on why she takes her selfish stance. We're just supposed to take it at face value and accept that's how she is and that she gets upset when the status quo is disrupted. Well, okay, acting spoiled and entitled is fine for an idol antagonist, but is there anything more to it, like why she feels entitled to fame and glory? Is it because of her past? Is it because she feels that she put more effort into it than everyone else? Is it because she enjoys the attention? Without any development on how Maya sees things, her character falls short and becomes nothing more than a forgettable stepping stone to show off Minori, Hiroko, and Okabe. If Maya is intended to be a major character that serves as a foil for what GJ represents, then she needs a more elaborate story on why she is who she is. Let's hope the upcoming chapters provide us that.

2012-12-19, 23:14	Link #73
Xion Valkyrie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007	Well, just like in real life some celebrities are absolutely despicable yet continue to get fame and wealth. Just look at Chris Brown.

2012-12-20, 01:53	Link #74
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	The fact that Maya and her producer are despicable isn't the problem. They're the antagonists - making them likable was never a requirement. The problem is that as character sin a story, they are incomplete, making them nothing more than cheap plot devices. With the producer specifically, shutting off their microphones is just simply out of character. Think of Kanye West's infamous "Imma let you finish" interruption during Taylor Swift's VMA speech. Now imagine that instead of doing that, he takes Taylor Swift's microphone during an actual concert, runs off with it, and never apologizes. There's a level of ridiculousness that even the most corrupt professionals won't do if they're smart enough to worry about their career image.

2012-12-21, 17:37	Link #80
Eisdrache Part-time misanthrope Join Date: Mar 2007	(that's the joke) Mayuyu now thinks that Minori is a girl crossdressing as a guy for work but she believed that s/he was a real guy at the beginning.