Canvas 2 ~Niji-iro no Sketch~

[Paracelsus]

So did you see any actual foreshadowing that it owuil dbe a Elis ending? I remeber a couple of hints form earlier eps tha tit might not be kiri ending but nothing that supports Elis ening other then she is main female character.

I always thought it would have been a Kiri ending. But I think they pulled off the "portrait" thing (two half of the same picture) as a metaphor. I suppose they meant HirokixElis was the fateful couple. And this happens in the last episode anyway <.<

[Anacone]

Sisterly love conquers all
I was hoping Kiri ending too, but episode 22 gave tingle of possible ending with Hiroki and Elis qoing to France together. In 23 ep it looked like it could end with Kiri. Then it looked quite bad in last episode when Hiroki rejected their date because of portrait, but i was hoping that he just wanted to give it to Elis. I was anxious till the end that it should just be allright and omg what i saw... not just them together in France but...no... no... rather open end

But when I'm analyzing I'm thinking that maybe Elis was just more lively, aggressive, grow more and was closer in these last two eps than Kiri. Although I had negative thoughts about her, she was irritating sometimes and overly protective towards Hiroki, she's not so bad character after all, she got some sympathy points in some eps. Like in that eps with baby sitting thing.

Road to the end was interesting, characters were lively and lovable mostly (I feel sorry for Shouta for his minor screen time), I'm thinking still that it was worth of waiting and following. In these 24 weeks it gave me some joy and I'm still waiting two eps to be subbed. People should not judge serie too hard because of ending.

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by Anacone

People should not judge serie too hard because of ending.

I disagree. Endings are one of the most important parts of any show. They are supposed to tie things together and bring whatever conflict there is to a resolution. This ending does the opposite, completely voiding the second half of the show.
Canvas2 had promise as a show that would break the mold and have an adult male lead end up with an appropriate adult female who has been a longtime friend. Instead, Hiroki after leading Kiri on for half the show suddenly in the very last episode comes to the realization that he is a siscon even though he has turned away Elis's advances for the whole show. In light of this ending, Hiroki has turned from a nice, not-so-useless harem lead into a selfish heartless incestuous manipulative bastard. Way to go.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Anacone

People should not judge serie too hard because of ending.

Tell that to the college professors who weight the final as half your grade

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by rooboy666

I'm kind of surprised there aren't already Canvas DVDs out, has anyone actually checked?

Actually, yes -- first three Canvas 2 DVDs are out already. They're released by Kadokawa à la Shuffle/Karin (etc.), which means 2 eps./disc (12 volumes in total), with a Regular (5800 yen/~$50) as well as a "Limited" (7800 yen/~$70) Edition. The Limited Edition is sort of unique because, instead of a normal DVD case, it comes in a sort of spiral binding like a little notebook. The main extras are illustration cards (don't know what they're called... sort of like postcards but thicker with art on both sides... first volume came with a binder to hold them) and a mini character-Drama CD, as well as art on the various pages of the "notebook". Overall, it's a neat little bundle, though expensive to be sure (especially if you're used to R1 anime releases).

I'll have to re-watch it to see if there are any animation touch-ups or improvements... there were a few glitches I remember in particular in TV episode 1 that I bet they fixed, but I haven't checked yet. I'd highly doubt you'll see any content changes or added segments, though... but nothing's impossible I guess (KgNE's ending was extended, after all).

If I weren't out of the country, I'd take my own pictures, but for now I'll just shamelessly plug ollin's site, which has some nice pictures of Volume 1.

[MonkeyBrains]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Tell that to the college professors who weight the final as half your grade

Clearly you haven't taken a course where the final exam is 100% of your grade (like most of law school). Talk about stress!

Spoiler:

Anyway, yeah, there were ambiguous clues if you want to post-analyze them. Blushing is a particularly ambiguous clue. He blushed at Saya a lot during her episode, and blushed around Kiri too. If anything, one could say the ending was obvious from what they did not show - if it was going to be KirixHiroki, they should've shown what Hiroki said after the rooftop confession (doesn't make dramatic sense not to show it). But, at the same time, the next episode, they left the strong impression that he accepted her, fantasizing about her, etc., and then he starts planning their Christmas holidays, etc. around Kiri even up till the end, with the hotel. I just find it difficult to reconcile the ending with the unambiguous statements that have been throughout the series - not just his unambiguous comments towards Kiri, but also his unambiguous comments (like his rejection) towards Elis.

Anyway, it still bugs me that he lead on Kiri so far, till the last half of the last episode. Geez. I would've been happy if he had just rejected her in episode 21. I had expected better from him, considering he never lead on any other women in the entire series, unlike other h-game shows. He never lead on Elis either (to the contrary). That was one of the things I liked about the series. Heck, in most h-game shows, the male lead is so much a faceless cutout he never even notices that the women are fawning over him. But, it's over. What's done is done. I'll watch the subs and rant some more with all the latecomers then.

I have to say, though, I've really found this discussion fascinating. I have also really enjoyed Kaoru Chujo sharing some of the Japanese fan reaction. This is the first discussion thread where I've seen such a thing. It is quite interesting to hear the intended audience's reaction, as opposed to us "gaijin", who, let's face it, are not the intended audience (no matter how much merchandise we may import ). Do you have a link to the discussion threads in question?

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBrains

...It is quite interesting to hear the intended audience's reaction, as opposed to us "gaijin", who, let's face it, are not the intended audience (no matter how much merchandise we may import ). Do you have a link to the discussion threads in question?

Here is the main page for 2channel, with its hundreds of forums:
http://www2.2ch.net/2ch.html
and here is the anime forum main page:
http://anime.2ch.net/anime/

Scroll down a bit on that second page and you'll see a clump of about 20 thread titles. Those are the threads with the most recent postings. If you click on the bold words at the lower right of that block, you'll go to the list of all the 200-300 thread titles. The most recent Canvas2 thread is the 36th for that anime. But since we have had two full threads filled over the past 24 hours (they close threads at about 1000 posts), we will probably soon reach 37.

On the 2channel main page, the list of all forums is in the frame at the left. The anime/manga forums are about three quarters of the way down the list. There are about 20 of them, like "new anime", "anime 2" (old anime), "shoujo manga", etc., etc. My other favorite forum is the one for "individual seiyuus":
http://anime.2ch.net/voiceactor/

[Sinestra]

for once in my life i wish i hadent read the spoilers about what happens with teh Elis Hiroki and Kiri i was a Kiri fan but i liked Elis too. well it has to end somehow i will still watch it to the end though since i still like the series

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

The most recent Canvas2 thread is the 36th for that anime. But since we have had two full threads filled over the past 24 hours (they close threads at about 1000 posts), we will probably soon reach 37.

LOL at post 507. Hi to anyone visiting! Interesting to see that the overall reaction is very similar, but not too surprising really. Any unexpected ending is bound to shock people at first - it's how people look back on the series as a whole once the dust settles that'll tell the real story.

[justsomeguy]

Unfortunately, the Canvas2 ending taints the whole as bullshit. "Hey everybody! Everything you watched before this finale is just meaningless red herring! Haha, we trick you, we tricked you!"

A weak, open-ended finale like that of Futakoi wouldn't have done as much damage as this did.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Unfortunately, the Canvas2 ending taints the whole as bullshit.

Yes, so you said yesterday. So long as you remember that your opinion doesn't make it The Objective Truth, that's all anyone can ask for.

[MonkeyBrains]

Hmmm... A red herring...

Spoiler for Probably should have spoiler tags although it is getting a little pointless:

There we go. Seriously, I think you may have nailed the metaphor.

Not that it's not unheard of to have a red herring in shows like this... (Sia in Shuffle was literally a "red" herring). But to have it up until the last half of the last episode is a little strange... A rewatch will determine that, I suppose...

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Yes, so you said yesterday. So long as you remember that your opinion doesn't make it The Objective Truth, that's all anyone can ask for.

Reminds me of that saying - "Opinions are like ***holes . Everybody's got one, and no one thinks there's stinks."
(not sure if that's inappropriate language, so I self-censored).
I'm a little surprised to see that from you, relentlessflame, after the amount of time you spent trying to point out the Objective Truth of DCSS... I could have misinterpreted your conversations on DCSS since I wasn't really that involved in it. My memory could be selective.

On another topic...
Some people have ranted about showing an alternate ending or something on DVD. It's been brought up about Shuffle. Seriously, how realistic is that? Has an anime series (based on an ero-game or not) ever done something like that before, having alternate endings? I'm not that hip to the multitudes of anime out there. Can't even think of any American stuff that does.

Other than the movie "Clue" of course, which had the ULTIMATE in alternate endings. Everybody post your favorite ending from the movie "Clue", "A", "B", or "C". I personally prefer "C". It had that great line from Mr. Green to cap it off. "I'm going to go home and sleep with my wife."

Seriously, though, considering they left so much to the last episode of this series, in theory, this would be the series to do it...

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Yes, so you said yesterday. So long as you remember that your opinion doesn't make it The Objective Truth, that's all anyone can ask for.

Of course it isn't The Objective Truth, but I have not seen anybody who isn't an Elise-loving Kiri-hater defend this ending. And it certainly cannot be denied that tossing out a developed relationship (characters and relationships are this show's strengths) for the sole purpose of achieving a shocking plot twist (which this show is not built on) in the very last episode is poor writing.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Of course it isn't The Objective Truth, but I have not seen anybody who isn't an Elise-loving Kiri-hater defend this ending. And it certainly cannot be denied that tossing out a developed relationship (characters and relationships are this show's strengths) for the sole purpose of achieving a shocking plot twist (which this show is not built on) in the very last episode is poor writing.

I agree with justsomeguy here that the ending has completely ruin a otherwise A-/B+ series. I am currently debating whether I should deleted the enitre series. It is really too bad since i really like the adult characters and funny side characters like Hagino and how they laid out the story. But the ending just competely ruin it for me. If the writers wanted a Elise ending then they should have put more effort into building a HirokiXElise relationship. That relationship just wasn't there to support the ending. I hate endings that doesn't make sense.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBrains

I'm a little surprised to see that from you, relentlessflame, after the amount of time you spent trying to point out the Objective Truth of DCSS... I could have misinterpreted your conversations on DCSS since I wasn't really that involved in it. My memory could be selective.

Hmm... it's really more of the same from me, really. I suppose I'm nothing if not predictable. Whenever someone insists on taking a completely negative point of view (like "this sucks, and makes no sense!"), I always want to try to point out that there may be another way of looking at it that can make sense and isn't so blatently negative. You may not like something, but that doesn't mean that it has no merit whatsoever in the objective sense.

If people perceived the DCSS thread as me "pointing out the truth" and "telling everyone else they're wrong", then I'm just not very good at saying what I want to say. But the point isn't to get everyone to like or not like something, or even to prove opinions "right" and "wrong" -- I just wish we could bring everyone back to a point where we can discuss the good and the bad rationally, without resorting to sensationalism or fanboy-theatrics. Then we could actually learn from each other, and maybe even gain an even deeper appreciation for these shows, and anime in general. Then again, an awful lot of people reading the boards are here because they find those sorts of theatrics funny/entertaining, or would rather just opine and react without trying to learn anything, so it's probably a lost cause. (Note that those are general statements; I'm not pointing fingers.)

Anyway, back to the discussion...

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBrains

Other than the movie "Clue" of course, which had the ULTIMATE in alternate endings. Everybody post your favorite ending from the movie "Clue", "A", "B", or "C". I personally prefer "C". It had that great line from Mr. Green to cap it off. "I'm going to go home and sleep with my wife."
Seriously, though, considering they left so much to the last episode of this series, in theory, this would be the series to do it...

I always preferred "A" (I think Mrs. Peacock was "A"), but that's because it has sentimental value ... it was the one I saw in the theater. I had to explain to my wife that it was shown with three different endings in theaters (she only ever saw it on video, where they splice them together), and it took months to convince her that they really were intended to be watched separately. I personally loved the line, "Is the FBI in the habit of cleaning up after multiple homicides?" "Yes, why do you think it's run by a man named Hoover?". God that movie cracks me up.

[dojikyo]

Spoiler:

I wanted to wait until watching the subs before defending/hating the ending but everyone seems to think there wasn't any foreshadowing. There was some foreshadowing.
When I watched (and I do mean watched seeing as how my lack of Japanese means I can't listen to the diaglogue) the raw of episode 22, I was wondering about why Hiroki blushed and seemed startled when Ellis fell asleep with Hiroki's hand against her cheek and why Hiroki flashbacked to the night before when Kiri was talking to him. Then I watched the subtitled version and it became a more apparent that Hiroki was trying to avoid having Kiri tag along. There were some hints about the ending, just not enough.

That being said ... I will probably prefer a different ending.

Spoiler:

For the record - I am a Kiri fan and I haven't seen episode 23 or 24

[justsomeguy]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Whenever someone insists on taking a completely negative point of view (like "this sucks, and makes no sense!"), I always want to try to point out that there may be another way of looking at it that can make sense and isn't so blatently negative. You may not like something, but that doesn't mean that it has no merit whatsoever in the objective sense.

Something that forces you to look for a silver lining through intellectualization is not that good in the first place. There is nothing that has "no merit whatsoever," not even the worst historical atrocities, but if the bad outweighs the good, it is net bad.

[MonkeyBrains]

Originally Posted by rooboy666

I always preferred "A" (I think Mrs. Peacock was "A"), but that's because it has sentimental value ... it was the one I saw in the theater. I had to explain to my wife that it was shown with three different endings in theaters (she only ever saw it on video, where they splice them together), and it took months to convince her that they really were intended to be watched separately. I personally loved the line, "Is the FBI in the habit of cleaning up after multiple homicides?" "Yes, why do you think it's run by a man named Hoover?". God that movie cracks me up.

That movie is one of the funniest movies out there. Full of very quick wit and dialogue. It was a very pleasant surprise when I saw it for the first time.

I recommend you pick up the DVD version. It has only one "special feature", a neat one. You can either watch the spliced ending like on VHS tape, or you can watch it like in the theatres - the DVD will pick a random ending for you, and you won't know until the end. Pretty neat!

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBrains

I recommend you pick up the DVD version. It has only one "special feature", a neat one. You can either watch the spliced ending like on VHS tape, or you can watch it like in the theatres - the DVD will pick a random ending for you, and you won't know until the end. Pretty neat!

I have it on DVD now, but of course, back in the day (before DVD players), I had to get it on VHS where you only got the one ending. This movie's so great I've even got my eight year old and all of his friends hooked on it.