2010-07-03, 17:43 | Link #12502 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Quote:
The moon in the background and the "throw a stone to disturb the reflection of the moon in the water speech" are a common symbology in both Higurashi and Umineko. In both the battle scenes too. I don't really get it either, but it's definitely there for some reason. If somebody can figure out what it's supposed to mean please tell me because I so far have not found anything to explain it and it kind of bugs me to not know. Spoiler for Himatsubushi hen:
Spoiler for Turn:
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2010-07-03, 17:50 | Link #12503 | |
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Quote:
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2010-07-03, 17:54 | Link #12504 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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I think the Kanon moon reference would mean that Beatrice is completely untouchable? But... to have an influence, she needs to use her "reflection", which can be easily disturbed.
Dunno about the Higurashi one... And I don't think we need to read too much into the lunar cycles. I mean, there's a limit to how far you have to research something, right . |
2010-07-03, 18:06 | Link #12505 |
Intellectual Rapist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
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Well the moon's reflection in the water seems to be an illusion. If you attempt to reveal the illusion for what it truly is, you die. So, throwing the stone in the water is probably referring to destroying the illusion. I would say it means, if you are going to die for disturbing the illusion you might as well destroy it.
Just my step by step analysis.
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2010-07-03, 18:44 | Link #12506 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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Also, a reflection in the water of the moon would have something to do with the mirrors as those bronze mirrors are filled with water in order to be used to reflect and they weren't exactly polished metal...
And, an image of the moon; I wonder if this has anything to do with Kaguya Hime? It's one of the oldest myths from Japan and it should be somewhat common knowledge, I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tal..._Bamboo_Cutter |
2010-07-03, 18:50 | Link #12507 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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I doubt it means anything specifically useful though.
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2010-07-03, 19:34 | Link #12509 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Quote:
"譲治は雨雲のはるか上に、きっと浮かんでいるはずの月を見上げて" George looked up where, surely, the moon was floating high above beyond the cloudy sky. So Ryuukishi is telling us that the moon cannot be seen due to the clouds, but it's not clear if he's aware that the moon wouldn't be visible anyway. As for the reflection of the moon, I think it's tied to some tale or common saying proper of the japanese culture. You make that comparison whenever someone tries to do something that would be impossible and foolish to achieve no matter the efforts you make. The closest thing in western culture is "to empty the sea with a spoon".
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2010-07-03, 19:56 | Link #12510 | |
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In both cases, you're dealing with something you can't do, but in the former case there is a semblance of success (you can disrupt the image), but the success isn't very useful for anything (which is why you're foolish to bother doing it). I'm trying to think of a more commonly-used English expression that properly says the same thing.
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2010-07-03, 20:16 | Link #12511 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Really? that saying comes from an anecdote about Saint Augustine, and as such it should be popular in all regions that were influenced by Christianity.
You can find it here: http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sta02002.htm See the bottom. Ironically I never heard the expression "squeezing blood from a stone" ^^;; This is even more far in the meaning, because squeezing blood from a stone is plain impossible, while emptying the sea with a spoon is in theory possible... provided you have infinite time and a way to seal the water you take.
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2010-07-03, 20:25 | Link #12512 |
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I'm a Catholic who went to a Catholic high school, Catholic university, and a Catholic law school, and I have never heard that one. I have heard similar idioms, but they're usually spun on the spot and tethered to a specific example. Then again, Americans aren't big on expressions of the futility of things, because we have a nasty habit of trying over and over at that sort of thing anyway.
"Blood from a stone" seems to have come from other languages, and is sometimes spun as "blood from a turnip." As neither of those things bleeds, it's a bit difficult for that to happen. This would be a tier up on "finding a needle in a haystack," since that's possible, just hard.
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2010-07-03, 20:32 | Link #12514 | |
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Like when your car catches fire after running out of gas in the middle of Death Valley. At that point, it's really not a big deal anymore.
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2010-07-03, 20:49 | Link #12515 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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ROTFL. Not only there was no full moon on that day. It was not even raining on the weekend of Rokkenjima Mystery.
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2010-07-03, 21:03 | Link #12516 |
Endless Turnless
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Random fact:
Inspired by that one interview that was linked a page or two back, did some research on language of flowers. It is mentioned ep4, just as "dreamenddischarger" hits on the full force, that the flower of truth is forget-me-not in the language of flowers. That is actually incorrect. The usual meaning associated with forget-me-not is actually "true love". Funnily enough, the meaning of "truth" is usually given to white chrysanthemum (I don't think we've seen these in the story) and sometimes, blue rose. On the other hand, blue rose also represents "mystery", "attaining the impossible" and is generally tought as a symbol to something "artificial". Dunno if this is of any importance. I should look around the text if there are any other things that might symbolize something. Like that wormwood = absence thing.
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2010-07-03, 21:14 | Link #12517 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_Pa...typhoon_season Typhoon Carmen started exactly in October 4. Ryukishi probably remembers that Typhoon from his personal experience.
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2010-07-03, 21:27 | Link #12518 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Quote:
I couldn't coax the weather data for a closer weather station out of Wolfram Alpha, but I think that while it might have been raining on Niijima, heavy rain it wasn't. Not like it matters a lot, but I think what we have here is the measurable limit of R07's research, telling us a certain known minimum of the artistic license he allows himself.
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2010-07-03, 21:37 | Link #12519 |
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Well, there's also the matter of the house, which is constructed of real photographs from at least two or three different real-life houses. So obviously research is flexible as long as it fits the overall intent. There was a typhoon around that time, and there are houses like the Ushiromiya manor, so that's close enough for jazz.
(Which is another of those English idioms)
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2010-07-03, 21:45 | Link #12520 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
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Quote:
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