(L) Revue Starlight Movie

[Archon_Wing]

Hmm, well there was actually a plot to the series; the revues were just a stage. And as we've seen, the giraffe can be pretty arbitrary with the rules and decided to go with whatever seemed more entertaining for it and the audience.

Anyhow, the plot wasn't much until it was revealed that some blonde madwoman decided to keep everyone trapped in her ideal world because she was afraid of uncertainty. Honestly the show wouldn't even be half as interesting if Nana wasn't batshit insane and we are reminded that nobody fucks with Big Banana.

At least to me, I thought the series really peaked at Hikari vs Nana. But at the least, you could say she lost to complacency but overall I think some other recent anime villains could have learned a lot from her.

So it wouldn't be fair to say that Revue Starlight had no conflict within it, such an idealistic show is just not going to put anyone in a bad light. Well, maybe Mr. Giraffe.

The only problem with this is that all kinda leaves Karen out of the interesting stuff and I will say that I thought that both Hikari and Karen's motivation was just pretty bleh and sometimes even cringey at worst. That being said I actually loved the ending to the show since I really didn't think that Homura Reina Mimori Hikari should have just took matters in her own hands like that to go dwell in her own misery. Sometimes it's okay to be naive? I'm getting too old, so yes.

I mean yes you can say there was more style than substance, but it's pretty well built. I mean you could simplify Evangelion to "boy with severe attachment issues deals with arguably as dysfunctional adults through biblical allegories and big robots" but that isn't fair is it?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Good, then you should understand why some people did not like the TV series, because there was no suspense or conflict.

There was suspense and conflict in this show, at least for me. I was not 100% confident on how the TV series would end. I could imagine the TV series going with either happy or bittersweet ending, so at least for me, there was suspense and conflict there.

Also, I found the Nana-focused section of the TV series genuinely surprising and hence quite suspenseful. I truly did not expect the TV series to pull something like that right in the middle of the show. And since the TV series had successfully surprised me there, it left me feeling more suspenseful for the finale.

Now, as for this movie, at no point did it surprise me or intrigue me to the extent that the Nana-focused section of the TV series did.

Karen got what she wanted all the way through to the end. She didn't have to grow.

Even if you're right, so what? There is such a thing as good static characters. Watching a likeable main protagonist have a positive impact on other characters is something I typically enjoy watching, even if that likeable main protagonist doesn't grow much from the experience.

Now, if Karen wasn't likeable to you, then I get you disliking the TV show. Personally, I liked Karen. She wasn't my favorite character in this show, but I thought she was Ok and likeable.

I don't think the TV series supported its own message all that well considering the only person who got what she wanted was Karen herself.

What are you talking about? Almost the entire cast seemed happy at the end of the TV series. There was some melancholy with Nana, for understandable reasons, but the other characters all seemed happy enough to put aside the contest for "Top Star" to come together as a full group of 9, united as friends and colleagues putting on a great performance.

So what exactly is your idea of a "struggle"?

Enduring a loss in Episode 3, and having to bounce back from that? Being reunited with an old friend that you're now having serious problems getting along with and understanding? That's struggle. It might not be epic struggle, but I've certainly seen some anime protagonists struggle less than Karen did. She struggled enough to make the story engaging, at least for me.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

The movie frames their dynamic in a more realistic way.

You care about realism in this show to this degree? We're talking about a show with a talking giraffe staging flashy Revue fights where teenage girls compete with dangerous weapons in order to be a top actress. There's nothing realistic about any of this!

There's no need whatsoever for this show to be a realistic commentary on what it takes to be a top star in real life. No more than there's a need for a magical girl anime to be a realistic commentary on what it takes to effectively fight crime in real life.

So for this franchise? I'd prefer the more feel-good option over the more realistic option. So I preferred how the TV series presented the Hikari/Karen relationship over how the Movie presented it.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

So it wouldn't be fair to say that Revue Starlight had no conflict within it, such an idealistic show is just not going to put anyone in a bad light. Well, maybe Mr. Giraffe.

Right, exactly. The Revue Starlight TV series was an idealistic show. There's no need for such a show to have realism, or be a commentary on the real-life world of actors and actresses.

And I agree with you on Nana. Nana is my favorite character in this franchise. And honestly, Nana's big scene fairly early in this movie left me hoping that she'd have a critically important role in the plot of the movie, but... she didn't, really. She ended up getting her one Revue with Juuna and that was that, pretty much.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

You care about realism in this show to this degree? We're talking about a show with a talking giraffe staging flashy Revue fights where teenage girls compete with dangerous weapons in order to be a top actress. There's nothing realistic about any of this!

That stuff was just symbolism. The show wasn't really about talking giraffes and magical fights. That's just a flashy way of showing something else. You could replace all that crap for actual acting auditions and the show could be exactly the same as far as plot and themes go. So of course I want the relationships between the characters to be realistic. To me it makes more sense for two friends who strive to be stage actresses to see each other as rivals rather than idolizing each other. And it definitely makes a lot of sense to go their separate ways after graduation from school. That's the healthy thing to do.

So for this franchise? I'd prefer the more feel-good option over the more realistic option. So I preferred how the TV series presented the Hikari/Karen relationship over how the Movie presented it.

That's totally okay. You like what you like. My point is simply that the movie makes sense in the context of what this franchise tried to achieve. That's all.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Enduring a loss in Episode 3, and having to bounce back from that? Being reunited with an old friend that you're now having serious problems getting along with and understanding? That's struggle. It might not be epic struggle, but I've certainly seen some anime protagonists struggle less than Karen did. She struggled enough to make the story engaging, at least for me.

Well at that time Karen was still treating the whole thing as a game which angered Juuna and others. Maya beating her down was mostly to show that this isn't a game and she needs to respect the revues. It was actually pretty enjoyable that Maya did crush her, as a veteran she should be feared. (Though her ultimate purpose is to job to Nana xD)

Right, exactly. The Revue Starlight TV series was an idealistic show. There's no need for such a show to have realism, or be a commentary on the real-life world of actors and actresses.

Yea. I mean, that would be kinda forced. Funny enough the recap movie (don't bother) added a bit where

Spoiler:

Nana seemingly turned to the dark side but it was eventually revealed to just be the tomatoes. Some people were hoping for the edgy crap and Nana's style was going that way, but thankfully it didn't

And I agree with you on Nana. Nana is my favorite character in this franchise. And honestly, Nana's big scene fairly early in this movie left me hoping that she'd have a critically important role in the plot of the movie, but... she didn't, really. She ended up getting her one Revue with Juuna and that was that, pretty much.

Well guess the problem was it was in the middle when it should probably have been 2nd to last.

Nana's issue was her character was kinda done, so she was trying to lead the other girls out by not making the same mistakes with reliving the past constantly. So she was doing the big sister thing. The problem was more that Junna wasn't really conflicted to begin with (she was already certain with what she was) so it became a little pointless either than wanting them to see them fight, or people that really believed that Juuna should win something.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That stuff was just symbolism. The show wasn't really about talking giraffes and magical fights. That's just a flashy way of showing something else. You could replace all that crap for actual acting auditions and the show could be exactly the same as far as plot and themes go.

I mean you can, but at a certain point there's only so far metaphors will go. Yes, the whole conflict and struggle of the revues can be taking as an abstract sense, and maybe they didn't even have revues during the train ride. But...

Like Banana forcefully keeping everyone there and always winning isn't really something that can be consistent with a more mundane explanation. Even if we just accept that she doesn't want to move on in her head, how does it really force other people in? And how would she have a conflict with Hikari, someone she can't even know without the time shenanigans?

That I think is the game changer, and can't really be ignored. And I feel like you could say that to many stories to just "stuff happens". But of course most things in fiction are about human relationships and conflict that could be expressed in realistic terms. That.... doesn't mean all the fantasy parts are inherently superfluous even if it could be written that way.

And finally, if we're really supposed to assume those fights aren't real, then winning and losing really shouldn't have any significance either would it? Granted, people were cutting off buttons left and right to no effect in the movie, sooo guess Nana was right. It wasn't a Revue.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Like Banana forcefully keeping everyone there and always winning isn't really something that can be consistent with a more mundane explanation. Even if we just accept that she doesn't want to move on in her head, how does it really force other people in?

Maybe she didn't force anyone in. Maybe the whole thing was in her head. But the question is, does it even matter? No, it doesn't. What matters is that she was scared of moving on to the next stage of her life. How the show decided to portray that is a matter of aesthetic style, but it doesn't affect Nana's fundamental internal conflict. At the end of the day Nana's story is simply the story of a girl who was afraid to lose that moment of brilliance that she found in school with her friends, the story of a girl who was afraid of growing up. Whether there was any actual magic to it doesn't change anything in a fundamental way.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Maybe she didn't force anyone in. Maybe the whole thing was in her head. But the question is, does it even matter? No, it doesn't. What matters is that she was scared of moving on to the next stage of her life. How the show decided to portray that is a matter of aesthetic style, but it doesn't affect Nana's fundamental internal conflict. At the end of the day Nana's story is simply the story of a girl who was afraid to lose that moment of brilliance that she found in school with her friends, the story of a girl who afraid of growing up. Whether there was any actual magic to it doesn't change anything in a fundamental way.

I mean, of course it does matter; because the conflict is not exclusively internal. Characters just don't exist within themselves; they affect the plot and other characters. It wouldn't make any sense for Hikari to come along to break the loop when they basically have zero reason to interact otherwise. Or how Karen's somehow growing stronger when she was irrelevant initially.

It just isn't going to happen if it's in her head, and you can't just suddenly decide entire chunks of the show are irrelevant just because it doesn't contain details relevant to your conclusion.

edit: I mean more that yes, you don't have to take everything literally. But I think the other extreme is something I can't settle with.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I mean, of course it does matter; because the conflict is not exclusively internal. Characters just don't exist within themselves; they affect the plot and other characters. It wouldn't make any sense for Hikari to come along to break the loop when they basically have zero reason to interact otherwise.

Hikari didn't come to break any loop. She had no clue about that. She came to save Karen from losing her radiance like she did. And that's pretty obviously just symbolism. Losing one's radiance is just a flashy way to show what happens to an actress that fails in their career. When you fail to get roles in auditions, that kinda thing.

Or how Karen's somehow growing stronger when she was irrelevant initially.

It's not that Karen got stronger per se. It's more like she just won because she was pushing for the message the show was championing at the time. In the movie, which has almost the opposite message, Karen loses. It's simply a matter of themes.

I mean more that yes, you don't have to take everything literally. But I think the other extreme is something I can't settle with.

That's fine. I'm not saying my way of interpreting the show is the only valid one. It's just what makes sense to me.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Well at that time Karen was still treating the whole thing as a game which angered Juuna and others. Maya beating her down was mostly to show that this isn't a game and she needs to respect the revues. It was actually pretty enjoyable that Maya did crush her, as a veteran she should be feared. (Though her ultimate purpose is to job to Nana xD)

Agreed. Maya's victory in Episode 3 was a thing of beauty, really. For pure style, for Karen to realize that this wasn't some lighthearted game, and for Maya herself coming across as cool and strong and compelling.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That stuff was just symbolism.

Maybe the main difference between us here is that I grew up on unrealistic superhero stories that were nonetheless presented as really happening. So I tend to approach anime shows like Revue Starlight as just another superhero-like story where totally unrealistic things are nonetheless really happening.

If my main fictional interests growing up had been more realistic works, maybe I'd share your take on this TV show and movie.

Anyway, thanks for the good discussion, Kazu-kun and Archon_Wing!

[Ragashingo]

A listing on AMC Theater's website is listing the Revue Starlight Movie coming to the US in June. Hopefully this means someone (Sentai Filmworks?) has licensed it and this will also lead to a Blu Ray release eventually.

[Ragashingo]

Official Confirmation of US theatrical release!

Not in my city, of course, but maybe close enough I can see it if things line up right. I'm probably more excited since this probably means Sentai Filmworks will eventually release a box set, but I'd love to see it in theaters if I can.