AnimeSuki Forums

mantidor · 2006-03-14, 20:56

I dont know where to put this, I suppose here is ok.

So I have been thinking about the possibility of streaming fansubs for a long time, I personally dont know the details of streaming or how difficult it is, but I think it would be a nice option. Download takes too much time and I wouldnt care if the quality isnt top notch if it saves time. I usually just download the episodes, see them once and delete them right away, so this would fit perfectly. does any group do this or is just too complicated?

JOJOS'STAR · 2006-03-14, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by mantidor

I dont know where to put this, I suppose here is ok.

So I have been thinking about the possibility of streaming fansubs for a long time, I personally dont know the details of streaming or how difficult it is, but I think it would be a nice option. Download takes too much time and I wouldnt care if the quality isnt top notch if it saves time. I usually just download the episodes, see them once and delete them right away, so this would fit perfectly. does any group do this or is just too complicated?

Do you mean like directly hosted by a web page? in flash? Well anyway my guess is 24 minutes would make the file a bit too large for instant streaming.. I think it would definitly have to take on the vid quality to make it possible. Not that I know much on the subject though. ^^

Quarkboy · 2006-03-14, 23:04

Actually, I've thought about this and it's perfectly possible in today's environment, with today's tools.

You'd have to use h264, with mp4's streaming ability... There's a problem with playback, but for now you could limit yourself to profiles that quicktime supports, I think, or I think that osmo player supports streaming... well, I'd need to do some research on it.

The point is, it's possible to do relatively decent quality releases with h264 and he-aac audio at a total bitrate of 400 Kb/s or less. If you do the math that's 50 KB/s. You can find servers out there with unmetered 10 Mbit connections (~1000 Kb/s) for $100 a month. So, that means you could stream anime to 20 people simultaneously... with a 100Mbit connection you could do _200_.

The problem with this is the demand curve... Just look at the latest Bleach releases: They can get almost 4000 simultaneous leechers, which is way more than you could stream to. But for older episodes I suppose it's possible.

You could half the resolution and distro at 320x240 for 200 Kb/s and double the number of simultaneous users...

So my point is that it IS feasible to do this. But the problems are numerous: You'll oversaturate on any new releases. Getting people to use a player that accepts streaming h264/mp4 is a little tricky right now. You're also opening yourself up to legal problems, since if you're streaming the file you are not in the bittorrent gray area of not hosting any multimedia files. Plus, this goes contrary to the trend of fansub groups lately of higher and higher quality.

Ledgem · 2006-03-15, 14:19

If you severely cut the quality of the subs as Quarkboy suggested, it's barely feasible. There's too much demand to go back to using centralized servers as a primary means of distribution, not to mention that if a server is overloaded and/or sluggish in any way, people will notice it through constant rebuffering. If a central download server is slow, people may need to wait extra time for their download to complete, but at least they won't have to spend all of that extra time trying to watch a 24-minute episode, only to spend another 10-40 minutes waiting for rebuffering to complete.

RaistlinMajere · 2006-03-15, 18:40

That wouldn't look too bad in H.264... And you could cut it down more if you used 512x384 or less...

mantidor · 2006-03-15, 20:10

Oh thats right, I forgot about the legal part of having a centralized service, the way I saw it was that streaming was more in line with what "technically" fansubs are created for, and that is to get series more known in the west so theres a demand for localization of that series, and in that case lower quality shouldnt be a problem. But centralized servers are indeed a problem.

Quarkboy · 2006-03-16, 14:18

In truth, and this is probably the "real" reason no one does it, is that this would work best as a subscription service. For $5 a month subscription... with, say, a measly 200 subscribers (I'd bet you'd get more like 1000 though), you could afford enough bandwith to stream to all your subscribers whenever they want. Hell, you could easily (make a profit)...

This mitigates the demand curve (as the maximum load is the total subscribers), as well as provides a steady revenue. But it opens you up to even more legal (and moreover, ethical) problems.

As to why the anime companies themselves don't do this... Well, time will tell.

2006-03-14, 20:56	Link #1
mantidor the Iniquitous Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: bogotá	Streaming? I dont know where to put this, I suppose here is ok. So I have been thinking about the possibility of streaming fansubs for a long time, I personally dont know the details of streaming or how difficult it is, but I think it would be a nice option. Download takes too much time and I wouldnt care if the quality isnt top notch if it saves time. I usually just download the episodes, see them once and delete them right away, so this would fit perfectly. does any group do this or is just too complicated?

2006-03-14, 23:04	Link #3
Quarkboy Translator, Producer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tokyo, Japan Age: 44	Actually, I've thought about this and it's perfectly possible in today's environment, with today's tools. You'd have to use h264, with mp4's streaming ability... There's a problem with playback, but for now you could limit yourself to profiles that quicktime supports, I think, or I think that osmo player supports streaming... well, I'd need to do some research on it. The point is, it's possible to do relatively decent quality releases with h264 and he-aac audio at a total bitrate of 400 Kb/s or less. If you do the math that's 50 KB/s. You can find servers out there with unmetered 10 Mbit connections (~1000 Kb/s) for $100 a month. So, that means you could stream anime to 20 people simultaneously... with a 100Mbit connection you could do _200_. The problem with this is the demand curve... Just look at the latest Bleach releases: They can get almost 4000 simultaneous leechers, which is way more than you could stream to. But for older episodes I suppose it's possible. You could half the resolution and distro at 320x240 for 200 Kb/s and double the number of simultaneous users... So my point is that it IS feasible to do this. But the problems are numerous: You'll oversaturate on any new releases. Getting people to use a player that accepts streaming h264/mp4 is a little tricky right now. You're also opening yourself up to legal problems, since if you're streaming the file you are not in the bittorrent gray area of not hosting any multimedia files. Plus, this goes contrary to the trend of fansub groups lately of higher and higher quality. __________________ Read Light Novels in English at J-Novel Club! Translator, Producer, Japan Media Export Expert Founder and Owner of J-Novel Club Sam Pinansky

2006-03-15, 14:19	Link #4
Ledgem Love Yourself Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Northeast USA Age: 38	If you severely cut the quality of the subs as Quarkboy suggested, it's barely feasible. There's too much demand to go back to using centralized servers as a primary means of distribution, not to mention that if a server is overloaded and/or sluggish in any way, people will notice it through constant rebuffering. If a central download server is slow, people may need to wait extra time for their download to complete, but at least they won't have to spend all of that extra time trying to watch a 24-minute episode, only to spend another 10-40 minutes waiting for rebuffering to complete. __________________

2006-03-16, 14:18	Link #7
Quarkboy Translator, Producer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Tokyo, Japan Age: 44	In truth, and this is probably the "real" reason no one does it, is that this would work best as a subscription service. For $5 a month subscription... with, say, a measly 200 subscribers (I'd bet you'd get more like 1000 though), you could afford enough bandwith to stream to all your subscribers whenever they want. Hell, you could easily (make a profit)... This mitigates the demand curve (as the maximum load is the total subscribers), as well as provides a steady revenue. But it opens you up to even more legal (and moreover, ethical) problems. As to why the anime companies themselves don't do this... Well, time will tell. __________________ Read Light Novels in English at J-Novel Club! Translator, Producer, Japan Media Export Expert Founder and Owner of J-Novel Club Sam Pinansky

2006-03-15, 18:40	Link #5
RaistlinMajere Now in MHD! Fansubber Join Date: Dec 2003	That wouldn't look too bad in H.264... And you could cut it down more if you used 512x384 or less...

2006-03-15, 20:10	Link #6
mantidor the Iniquitous Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: bogotá	Oh thats right, I forgot about the legal part of having a centralized service, the way I saw it was that streaming was more in line with what "technically" fansubs are created for, and that is to get series more known in the west so theres a demand for localization of that series, and in that case lower quality shouldnt be a problem. But centralized servers are indeed a problem.