Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[X207]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

From my perspective, Hecate seems like she's trying to stop Silver's resurrection, along with the others of Bal Masque, which means under that cute exterior, lies a power hungry warmonger who wants to keep the Silvers position as head hancho of Bal Masque, just my view though

same here, they had most of silver already. letting it come out in their HQ is their plan imo. imo hecate was supressing the silver in yuji.

[CapoExecutor]

Originally Posted by lua thien

Perhaps if she gets another chance that is. Yuji has become irrelevant in the Master Throne's view now that she merged with Konoe and absorbed those memories. I just want to see how she'll use them later on.

It would be awesome if Shana can do Mujushin Kenjitsu while battling Hecate.

I'll agree about the supposed lack of sword skill Shana displayed against Hecate.

Hmm... Shana + Mujushin Kenjitsu = ?

Is it just me or did Pheles began acting a bit more her age after she absorbed Johan?

[Guido]

For those who still have some hesitation that Shana would not be able to comeback to its former glory then you must hurry and watch this, and then rewatch episodes 13 to 15 in a row.

Plenty of mind-blowing action, and I give my confidence vote to the Shana II soundtrack as the best O.S.T. of the year. Johann's theme is a magnificient track of medieval fantasy, that it mesmerized me completely.

Spoiler:

What I could make up by arranging all the things left by this mess of a good hell episode were:

1. The existence of Konoe Fumina was a faux vessel created in Hecate's image to gather experiences in the human world after being sent there, so that those experience ended up becoming precious memories.
Konoe transferred the memories into Hecate in order to fill the Master Throne, then the former dissipated into foam which was absorbed into Hecate.
Recall that in the previous season, the Bal Masque intended for the vessel of the Reiji Maigo (Yuuji) to become one inside Hecate. Hecate attempted to fill her existence by absorbing Yuujis' memories into herself, but that planned was thwarted.

That was the Bal Masque first objective. Recovering Konoe, then she transferred her memories of living in the human world to Hecate in order to fill the Master Throne.

2. The second objective would be pure guesswork. Hecate ensured to keep the seal on in the Reiji Maigo. Likely whom Fecor meant not to let out was Johann, which later was confirmed once Johann went outside temporarily, and Fecor could not stop to frown with dissapointment that they failed to achieve so.

I don't know how and when the Silver fell into hands of the Bal Masque, and why they are using it. I speculate that if someone as powerful like Pheles would attempt to breach the seal in the Reiji Maigo, then the seal will alert of the intruder's break in to the Bal Masque.
Then, they warp the Silver or parts of 'it' into the Reiji Maigo to defend from any outside breach.

[mir]

Probably the best episode of the 2nd season so far. Hopefully we'll see a lot more of Hecate from now on...because it's all about the white mage outfit <.<

[Aquifina]

A fast-paced episode that left me almost breathless. Yuji could have acted better, but at least he did manage to help out Margery with the spell; I think a lot of you are being too hard on him. Yes, he does seriously freak out, but dude, the guy has got an armored arm coming out of his chest. Yuji's seen lots of crazy and strange things, but this is a new one. And this is something all his new training isn't really all that useful for--i.e. casting a fuzetsu and improved combat skills. But the ep went far beyond Yuji, and involved pretty much all the major players.

[karinvampire]

volume 16 needs to be animated but if it ends like that i will be upset because that means another year to wait for season 3.



I don't mind Kazumi I just feels she gets in the way and in S1 it looked liked Yuji was some what attractive to shana like in the "Incest twins" arc and when he first met her.


I like this season but more action plz

[DX HBK]

Why didn't she try aiming at the fingers on one of Hecate's hands when Hecate brought the Trigon up to block her strike? I watched that scene over and over and can never get why that didn't occur. At least it would disarm the Supreme Throne of a few fingers and then she could kill.

Better yet, feign Hecate at the right moment and then slash low when she takes the bait.

Seems that no one knows how to fight effectively anymore or perhaps the writers decided to tone the melee elements down.

Originally Posted by Aquifina

A fast-paced episode that left me almost breathless. Yuji could have acted better, but at least he did manage to help out Margery with the spell; I think a lot of you are being too hard on him. Yes, he does seriously freak out, but dude, the guy has got an armored arm coming out of his chest. Yuji's seen lots of crazy and strange things, but this is a new one. And this is something all his new training isn't really all that useful for--i.e. casting a fuzetsu and improved combat skills. But the ep went far beyond Yuji, and involved pretty much all the major players.

Well, he's got his left shoulder almost sliced off by Shana on the day they met and he's been experiencing a lot of unnormal stuff such as Sydonay trying to "molest" the kid on the bridge. I thought he could be a bit hardened or have some nerves of steel after going through all that, ready to expect new things he hasn't seen. Still, I'll agree that his mental stamina hasn't recovered enough from the current chain of events.

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Why didn't she try aiming at the fingers on one of Hecate's hands when Hecate brought the Trigon up to block her strike? I watched that scene over and over and can never get why that didn't occur. At least it would disarm the Supreme Throne of a few fingers and then she could kill.

Better yet, feign Hecate at the right moment and then slash low when she takes the bait.

Seems that no one knows how to fight effectively anymore or perhaps the writers decided to tone the melee elements down.

Did you honestly think Shana at that moment was thinking logically enough to come up with that plan... Looking at Shana rushing through Hecate's attacks really shows she was just desperate to save Yuji.... You have to watch things through the perspectives of those involved. Would they honestly think logically in those situation?

Shana was in tears for goodness sakes.

It's always easier to see things when you aren't directly involved in it.

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Well, he's got his left shoulder almost sliced off by Shana on the day they met and he's been experiencing a lot of unnormal stuff such as Sydonay trying to "molest" the kid on the bridge. I thought he could be a bit hardened or have some nerves of steel after going through all that, ready to expect new things he hasn't seen. Still, I'll agree that his mental stamina hasn't recovered enough from the current chain of events.

Considering that silver arms burst out of his stomach like something out of Aliens. I think no amount of "hardening" as you say it would prepare anyone for that, also considering how sudden it was, it's not like he could prepare for the situation let alone have "nerves of steel" to prepare him for things...

[Kisuke06]

Finally something is starting to happen. But I already lost track of what is inside Yuji...

[Sinestra]

Great episode lots of things were revealed but only lead to more questions. Shana looking as desperate as she was to save Yuji was heartbreaking but shows just how much shes loves him. Right now Yuji is in a place that Yoshida can not reach however i sense something is going to happen with her, since Pheles left her something. So now we have Hecate back and she seems even more intent on getting Yuji's little gift. I hope the rollercoaster ride continues ill be along for the ride for sure. Right now our heros are not doing so well they are at huge disadvantage because of the lack of information about whats happening and the truth. I want to know exactly what Johan wants Pheles to do, that made her give up on Yuji. Maybe because of the spell on Reji Maigo he can no longer be fully retrieved

[DX HBK]

Originally Posted by holyman282

Did you honestly think Shana at that moment was thinking logically enough to come up with that plan... Looking at Shana rushing through Hecate's attacks really shows she was just desperate to save Yuji.... You have to watch things through the perspectives of those involved. Would they honestly think logically in those situation?

Shana was in tears for goodness sakes.

It's always easier to see things when you aren't directly involved in it.

Either she was desperate to save Yuji or trying to neutralize the closest threat to him are linked. I looked at that and then thought back on what Merihim told her back at the Tendou-Kyuu in fighting Tomogara or enemy Guze no Ou. The training she had was more of the type "when you point your sword at someone, it's kill or be killed. There ain't no in-between." Anyone of her caliber can come up with the right response in a matter of seconds. Compare the fights Shana had in Season 1 and Season 2.

She was in tears during the Pheles/Johan segment.

[minhtam1638]

The way that this season is going, I'm going to have to hold off on this series and marathon this at it's end, cause I have no clue where the heck we're going anymore. Bits and Pieces is all, but I have to string popcorn together for this season.

[Owaranai Destiny]

It's been way too long since I commented on an episode thread, but I finally got to it.

This episode was really a bag of shocks, surprises and action. Now that I've realised Konoe Fumina was nothing more than a vessel for which to get closer to Yuuji for a purpose known only to the top tier of the Balle Masque, the bad aftertaste of the filler arcs have more or less faded away completely. The only bad thing about them was they were a tad too long, but I digress.

Characters have changed as compared to what we saw in season 1, obviously. Shana has become more emotional, more expressive, and more emotionally attached to Yuuji as well, one important factor of how she fought (by the way, this is in regard to any posts about her battle 'tactics'). Look at what she did: Charging in recklessly, ignoring a warning from Alastor and trying her hardest to best Hecate when she should know better than to simply stay in one position for long. Everything that she did was all for Yuuji, in case the detractors of the way she fought didn't notice. Adding to this was the fact that Pheles had already jumped Yuuji twice. If that doesn't make her edgy and agitated, I don't know what else does during this period of time.

The mystery of the Silver deepens, and unless we get back to the Balle Masque (quite a brilliant way to show up IMO) or the novel spoilers, the viewers won't be getting anything out of it. I do know just a little about what the Silver really is but till I get the novels or watch any future episodes, let's keep it in suspense for those who have yet to know.

How long has it been since Hecate/Mamiko Noto made her appearance? Her performance was enjoyable, and we even get to see her in some action. Not too shabby for an action episode, since we have Fecor finally showing off what he's capable of. Here's to hoping for more Tomogara action in the future.

With the way Kazumi is thinking now, I wouldn't be surprised if she just gave up, though it does look like she has matured considerably in her behaviour towards Shana and Yuuji, as did Shana towards Kazumi in particular. I'm wondering what that Hougu does, though...

The scene with Pheles and Johan was somewhat touching, especially more so for those who know a little about the past that transpired with Pheles, Johan, Wilhelmina and Sabrac. I'd imagine the poor girl was searching for him for god knows how many years. All she got was several moments of sweet alone-time before he reverts back to Yuuji. Way to leave us with another mystery, Johan.

On the whole, a 10/10, hands down. A dash of things that would seem particularly minor in an episode with most of the time devoted to action. Only hope it gets better even as things cool down in the next episode.

*Would love to see the stories of Pheles and Johan, though...Something like what was described to us in the novel volume that depicted Shana's past in Tendou-kyu.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

It's been way too long since I commented on an episode thread, but I finally got to it.

This episode was really a bag of shocks, surprises and action. Now that I've realised Konoe Fumina was nothing more than a vessel for which to get closer to Yuuji for a purpose known only to the top tier of the Balle Masque, the bad aftertaste of the filler arcs have more or less faded away completely. The only bad thing about them was they were a tad too long, but I digress.

Characters have changed as compared to what we saw in season 1, obviously. Shana has become more emotional, more expressive, and more emotionally attached to Yuuji as well, one important factor of how she fought (by the way, this is in regard to any posts about her battle 'tactics'). Look at what she did: Charging in recklessly, ignoring a warning from Alastor and trying her hardest to best Hecate when she should know better than to simply stay in one position for long. Everything that she did was all for Yuuji, in case the detractors of the way she fought didn't notice. Adding to this was the fact that Pheles had already jumped Yuuji twice. If that doesn't make her edgy and agitated, I don't know what else does during this period of time.

The mystery of the Silver deepens, and unless we get back to the Balle Masque (quite a brilliant way to show up IMO) or the novel spoilers, the viewers won't be getting anything out of it. I do know just a little about what the Silver really is but till I get the novels or watch any future episodes, let's keep it in suspense for those who have yet to know.

How long has it been since Hecate/Mamiko Noto made her appearance? Her performance was enjoyable, and we even get to see her in some action. Not too shabby for an action episode, since we have Fecor finally showing off what he's capable of. Here's to hoping for more Tomogara action in the future.

With the way Kazumi is thinking now, I wouldn't be surprised if she just gave up, though it does look like she has matured considerably in her behaviour towards Shana and Yuuji, as did Shana towards Kazumi in particular. I'm wondering what that Hougu does, though...

The scene with Pheles and Johan was somewhat touching, especially more so for those who know a little about the past that transpired with Pheles, Johan, Wilhelmina and Sabrac. I'd imagine the poor girl was searching for him for god knows how many years. All she got was several moments of sweet alone-time before he reverts back to Yuuji. Way to leave us with another mystery, Johan.

On the whole, a 10/10, hands down. A dash of things that would seem particularly minor in an episode with most of the time devoted to action. Only hope it gets better even as things cool down in the next episode.

*Would love to see the stories of Pheles and Johan, though...Something like what was described to us in the novel volume that depicted Shana's past in Tendou-kyu.

Hey welcome back iv missed reading your post.

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Either she was desperate to save Yuji or trying to neutralize the closest threat to him are linked. I looked at that and then thought back on what Merihim told her back at the Tendou-Kyuu in fighting Tomogara or enemy Guze no Ou. The training she had was more of the type "when you point your sword at someone, it's kill or be killed. There ain't no in-between." Anyone of her caliber can come up with the right response in a matter of seconds. Compare the fights Shana had in Season 1 and Season 2.

It's true that's what Merhim told her back then, but that was before Shana met Yuji. Certainly she was cold and a logical thinker back then but do you honestly think that Shana is still the same cold Flame Haze as before? I mean you can see that she's in love with Yuji, I mean if Pheles the creator of the Reiji Maigo can lose her sense of caution (hence gets stabbed by that silver arm) to save the one she loves then why do you think Shana who by the way is alot younger then Pheles, would think logically in a situation where the object of her affection is being threatened?

Originally Posted by DX HBK

She was in tears during the Pheles/Johan segment.

True it was in the Pheles/Johan segment but those emotions are a carry over from all that was happening to Yuji. It doesn't matter whether she was crying in the Johan Segment or the Hecate segment, Shana crying shows her desperation reguardless of when it happens and is evidence that in that situation she would not be thinking logically to come up with a battle plan.

[DX HBK]

Originally Posted by holyman282

It's true that's what Merhim told her back then, but that was before Shana met Yuji. Certainly she was cold and a logical thinker back then but do you honestly think that Shana is still the same cold Flame Haze as before? I mean you can see that she's in love with Yuji, I mean if Pheles the creator of the Reiji Maigo can lose her sense of caution (hence gets stabbed by that silver arm) to save the one she loves then why do you think Shana who by the way is alot younger then Pheles, would think logically in a situation where the object of her affection is being threatened?


True it was in the Pheles/Johan segment but those emotions are a carry over from all that was happening to Yuji. It doesn't matter whether she was crying in the Johan Segment or the Hecate segment, Shana crying shows her desperation reguardless of when it happens and is evidence that in that situation she would not be thinking logically to come up with a battle plan.

Back when Shana was the cold Flame Haze, she couldn't beat Margery or Friagne in single combat. But add Yuji into the equation and she became more efficient enough to beat them both.

Surely, if her love interest's life is on line, then it would make her lethally more versatile and combat effective. I could say that she considers Yuji to be a part of her, thus her crying and I have no argument over that. And if that part of her is being an inch close to death, then she'd be thinking real fast enough to instinctively react and become more calculating.

So yeah, I would think that Shana would be able to think more logically than Pheles, who started acting a child that just got her favorite doll or candy taken away after getting impaled by the Silver's arm.

Anyways, Pheles doesn't use logic because she's really strong and has never come across an opponent that could best her in combat. That is, until a low-level but lethally calculating Guze no Tomogara named Sabrac appeared and literally beat the daylights out of Pheles, a powerful Guze no Ou, and Johan, a skilled Mystes spellcaster. On his own and fighting both of them at the same time.

[cnnydz]

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Anyways, Pheles doesn't use logic because she's really strong and has never come across an opponent that could best her in combat. That is, until a low-level but lethally calculating Guze no Tomogara named Sabrac appeared and literally beat the daylights out of Pheles, a powerful Guze no Ou, and Johan, a skilled Mystes spellcaster. On his own and fighting both of them at the same time.

Spoiler for sabrac:

er... sabrac is like... em... the most feared tomogara in the whole world, who killed many of the world's strongest flame hazes and guze no ous, and he is not a low level tomogara, he is one of the most powerful kings. one thing i have to agree is that he is very cunning

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Back when Shana was the cold Flame Haze, she couldn't beat Margery or Friagne in single combat. But add Yuji into the equation and she became more efficient enough to beat them both.

Take note that during the battle, Yuuji was there to HELP her. He was there as support, not being a hostage in this episode. If you wish to compare this with the fact that Yuuji was then held hostage before in the Seirei-den in season 1, Shana actually had time to calm down and think before setting off, so her lethality wasn't compromised so much at that time.

In this episode, we're talking about sudden twists and shocks, e.g. Believing the then Pheles to be real (that was naivete on Kazumi's and her part) and having the real one arriving with every intention of taking Johan out without much consideration of what would happen to Yuuji and the arrival of Konoe as a faux vessel. Coupled with the fact that she has been edgy over the past few days in regards to the Silver flame issue and having Pheles wanting to do something already earlier on, I'll pretty much say she just turned impulsive and rash to act on instinct rather than basing her fighting on 'logic'.

So yeah, I would think that Shana would be able to think more logically than Pheles, who started acting a child that just got her favorite doll or candy taken away after getting impaled by the Silver's arm.

Well...I can only begin to imagine just how long it took for her to FINALLY find the Reiji Maigo and in effect, Johan. You can't really determine the consistency of anyone's behaviour when it comes down to the matters of the heart.

[teachopvutru]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

Take note that during the battle, Yuuji was there to HELP her. He was there as support, not being a hostage in this episode. If you wish to compare this with the fact that Yuuji was then held hostage before in the Seirei-den in season 1, Shana actually had time to calm down and think before setting off, so her lethality wasn't compromised so much at that time.

Also to mention that that part is the beginning of the story when Shana hasn't met Yuji for long. Her affection for him now has already grown stronger afterall...

EDIT:
Just watched this episode, and like many others, I'm also confuse as well, especially since they start to add Johan's appearance.

I chuckled a bit in the beginning when Wilhelmina's contractor said "Obsession" as the reaction to Pheles's behavior toward Johan. Nothing to say about the fight (most already mentioned those in details) except that those big cube things and the size of explosion rather surprised me...

And.. Pheles seems rather cute in this episode; and Shana is just hand-down full of wins. We don't see her cry very often, neither was the moe ever as strong before. The only time I remember her crying was when she thought she got rejected Yuji in season 1, but its impact was no where near as strong as this one... I loved that Yuji x Shana scene as well, although that one-liner Kazumi had to add kinda made me sigh.

But at least it appears Kazumi will later have some kind of role to the story.

Anyway, 10/10, making it the first time I ever rate an episode as well (if memory serves me correctly).

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Back when Shana was the cold Flame Haze, she couldn't beat Margery or Friagne in single combat. But add Yuji into the equation and she became more efficient enough to beat them both.

Surely, if her love interest's life is on line, then it would make her lethally more versatile and combat effective. I could say that she considers Yuji to be a part of her, thus her crying and I have no argument over that. And if that part of her is being an inch close to death, then she'd be thinking real fast enough to instinctively react and become more calculating.
.

I agree with Owaranai Destiny, Shana's skills fluctuate throughout the series and the main cause for these fluctuations are Yuji. When she was fighting Margery in S1 her power increased when she felt that Yuji would fight alongside her and likewise, when Yuji was fighting against Friagne with Shana, her ability increased. Conversely, whenever it appears that Yuji is not with her, Shana's skills decrease. It's the same here, she loses control because she thought that Yuji would be taken and hence throws caution to the wind and rushes to battle...

Seriously DX look at the scene where Shana charges through Hecate's attack, does that look like a person who's thinking logically? Tell me honestly.