Code Geass R2 - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll [END]

[Pink-chan]

Originally Posted by zalem

Are the Japanese fans fighting this much over the Lelouch being alive/dead thing or do they pretty much lean one way or another? I'm curious...

I believe so since we can see fanart of the cartdriver, Lulu around too.

[Alchemist007]

as far as the talking to light in the afterlife goes....there was no afterlife in DN :P

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Like I told you before the studio has a stigma when it comes to production, and you seem to ignore this fact...Just because they produced a good season of Armored Trooper Votoms 30 years ago doesn't mean they haven't garnered a stigma in the 2000's that shapes opinions...Firestone Tires have been around since the like 1920's but they still take flack today for those Explorer-tires that used to flip over and kill people in the 90's (For 80 years they didn't have a problem)...We live in a what have you done for me latley kinda world and peoples' most recent memories of Sunrise involve AN ENTIRE SERIES NEARLY BEING CANNED 3 TIMES FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY (GSD)...and countless series that have seemed to have been rushed or totally executive driven (Mai Hime/Mai Otome, Gundam Seed, Code Geass r2, even Gundam 00 S1, etc.)...Sad, but true...

Okay look, I agree that Gundam Seed Destiny and a lot of their shows following it were pretty poor and they deserve a bit of flack for it. The "stigma" however has to be allowed to get washed away at some point and the studio given a clean state though if one wants to have any reasonable chance at enjoying it's work, and dwelling on the past is not a good gateway to watching a show. I think they've put in a good recovery effort over the last couple of years with a greater degree of solid shows and succeeded in washing away the ghost of Gundam Seed Destiny. For that reason I'm ready to let it go, other people....I don't know. It makes me wonder sometimes. Like what are we going to do, let one bad run control our views of the studio for the next century or something. It has to be let go at some point. Same goes with Gonzo and Dragonaut by the way if they do anything to prove their competance again.

[heppu]

Originally Posted by zalem

Are the Japanese fans fighting this much over the Lelouch being alive/dead thing or do they pretty much lean one way or another? I'm curious...

In Japan,fans are also fighting each other like here.
But most people thought Lelouch is dead.

[Darkonus]

Anyway, regarding the eyebags again. You're right actually: there's actually one example of an immortal having dark eyebags resulting from bloodloss, and that's V.V. before his Code was taken, in the latter half of Turn 14. Here we've got another contradiction, however: in the case of heavy bloodloss resulting in a slow death, V.V., despite being wounded enough to die (as evidenced by the fact that he did die once his Code was taken), nevertheless never lost consciousness or closed his eyes. Lelouch did. I can walk you through the logic if you like, but to put it simply, if an immortal is heavily injured, but it is not enough to make them lose consciousness initially--then, it is impossible for them to lose consciousness as a result of that injury.

Regarding the eyebags, has anyone considered that since this is LuLu's first death, maybe it happens this way the first time for all the immortals? We never saw the other Immortals first death.

[Deliberation]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Like I told you before the studio has a stigma when it comes to production, and you seem to ignore this fact...Just because they produced a good season of Armored Trooper Votoms 30 years ago doesn't mean they haven't garnered a stigma in the 2000's that shapes opinions...Firestone Tires have been around since the like 1920's but they still take flack today for those Explorer-tires that used to flip over and kill people in the 90's (For 80 years they didn't have a problem)...We live in a what have you done for me latley kinda world and peoples' most recent memories of Sunrise involve AN ENTIRE SERIES NEARLY BEING CANNED 3 TIMES FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY (GSD)...and countless series that have seemed to have been rushed or totally executive driven (Mai Hime/Mai Otome, Gundam Seed, Code Geass r2, even Gundam 00 S1, etc.)...Sad, but true...

Keroro Gunso, Yakitate!! Japan and Gintama are really really awesome crack shows and people remember them for that.

[nutype]

Originally Posted by heppu

In Japan,fans are also fighting each other like here.
But most people thought Lelouch is dead.

just as expected.

thanks

[Droplet]

Lelouche is not dead.

Wait, either that or Nunnaly has always been able to read memories.

[Jarmel]

Actually from what I've heard from multiple sources it seems that they are leaning towards Lelouch being alive, just as it seems a majority think he's alive here. I'm looking at that poll some blogger did where a clear majority think he's alive.

http://www.koibitoanime.com/2008/09/...-–-vote/

Yes I'm aware the sample size is not that large but you use what you got.

[Zero_Gravity]

So NO ONE know what the BGM name is from this clip up until 0:50?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ526QbdlGM

[FreshSalad]

Regarding the quote about how
the geass being the power of kings though should isolate the user didn't blah blah (someone draw up the exact quote please)
The LeloucheAlive argument is that for it to make sense, lelouch has to be alive or else he wouldn't be not isolated or what not
and the LelouchDead argument was that he brought everyone together and went to heaven or whatever where he isn't isolated..
just wondering if these were the two arguments
Because doesn't using the geass isolate the user because eventually everyone obeys you and you are the only person living in your false world? I.e. lelouch's power of the king would make everyone obey him and he would be the only person with free will etc. So whether or not he brought world peace has nothing to do with isolation right? The quote refers to the user's isolation. And no, death does not count, because using the geass and dying eventually and if that brought salvation from isolation, it would invalidate the quote. Therefore, if she said he wasn't isolated, his ending would have to be something that suggests that he found in life a way to be not isolated.... though I'm not sure if staying eternity alone with C2 counts as not isolated. And I don't think getting everyone to hate you counts as not isolated.

[Asleep]

Originally Posted by FreshSalad

Regarding the quote about how
the geass being the power of kings though should isolate the user didn't blah blah (someone draw up the exact quote please)
The LeloucheAlive argument is that for it to make sense, lelouch has to be alive or else he wouldn't be not isolated or what not
and the LelouchDead argument was that he brought everyone together and went to heaven or whatever where he isn't isolated..
just wondering if these were the two arguments
Because doesn't using the geass isolate the user because eventually everyone obeys you and you are the only person living in your false world? I.e. lelouch's power of the king would make everyone obey him and he would be the only person with free will etc. So whether or not he brought world peace has nothing to do with isolation right? The quote refers to the user's isolation. And no, death does not count, because using the geass and dying eventually and if that brought salvation from isolation, it would invalidate the quote. Therefore, if she said he wasn't isolated, his ending would have to be something that suggests that he found in life a way to be not isolated.... though I'm not sure if staying eternity alone with C2 counts as not isolated. And I don't think getting everyone to hate you counts as not isolated.

She said she might have been somewhat wrong about what she said about geass isolating people. So while he might be away from everyone he is not completely alone because C.C. is with him

[Droplet]

If you let Lelouch die, the greatest tragedy is not in him dying but in him dying a virgin.

Anyway, I'm glad that more people are getting closer to the truth. ^^

PS. The idea of being able to inherit codes once both eyes had geass wasn't up for nothing. What was the point of Charles being immortal? It wasn't just so that he couldn't be killed by Lelouche. It was so that the viewers could get clued in on the possibility that it's also something Lelouche can achieve, of course in exchange for his Geass. I think I'm just reiterating what others have said.

PPS I doubt Nunnaly never knew that Lelouche was still alive. Within 2 months, how could she have become so well adjusted?

[heppu]

Originally Posted by Jarmel

Actually from what I've heard from multiple sources it seems that they are leaning towards Lelouch being alive, just as it seems a majority think he's alive here. I'm looking at that poll some blogger did where a clear majority think he's alive.

In the 2ch the biggest BBS in japan,many people discussed.
And most people think Lelouch is dead.
Of course,some people still wish Leloush is alive,but they are not major.

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by Zero_Gravity

So NO ONE know what the BGM name is from this clip up until 0:50?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ526QbdlGM

It's called Continued Story by Hitomi

Here is a blog about it
http://aizen.usakochan.net/code-geas...ed-story-song/

Epic song on so many levels.

Also comment from the guy who runs Sankaku Complex( I'm assuming he reads Japanese)
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2008/0.../#comment-4820
Comment by Artefact
2008-09-30 08:49:18
I checked up on what some of the Japanese sites are saying, and they seem to concur with this general line of analysis.

So I don't know which one's he checked but I've also heard from three other people at other sites saying the same thing.

[Spring_sakura111]

It's obvious that he lives. No need for an argument. And if you say that it was selfish of Lelouch that he would live happily while Suzaku would wear a mask forever, it's not. Remember, they both agreed to this and Suzaku wanted to atone for his sins by dying but he couldn't because of the geass effect that was bestowed upon him. He's now happy with Nunnally's side and reforming the world with kind actions instead of killing.

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by Droplet

Lelouche is not dead.

Wait, either that or Nunnaly has always been able to read memories.

Thoughts, not memories. Whenever she touches someone's hand. She did it to Romeyer and tried to do it to Suzaku. But seeing as you people are still pushing this despite infallible proof given by the series that Lelouch is dead, I don't expect anything to stop you now.

[Droplet]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

Thoughts, not memories. Whenever she touches someone's hand. She did it to Romeyer and tried to do it to Suzaku. But seeing as you people are still pushing this despite infallible proof given by the series that Lelouch is dead, I don't expect anything to stop you now.

Actually, I believe she was reading their pulse to check if they were lying.

Edit: Check out the wedding pic. Is that Euphy at the right side of Rivalz?

[Jarmel]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

Thoughts, not memories. Whenever she touches someone's hand. She did it to Romeyer and tried to do it to Suzaku.

This has to have been atleast my 5th post on this topic, it's not thoughts. It is the ability to tell if someone is lying through physical symptoms such as skin, pulse, and respiration. This requires her to touch Romeyer and same with Suzaku I believe.

From wiki:

A polygraph (popularly referred to as a lie detector) is an instrument that measures and records several physiological responses such as blood pressure, pulse, respiration and skin conductivity while the subject is asked and answers a series of questions, on the theory that false answers will produce distinctive measurements.

Why has nobody heard of a polygraph???

[Discerptor]

A polygraph works through careful calibration using a series of questions while the person is hooked to the machine, using a measure of galvanic skin response, something that the human touch cannot detect. I posted back when Nunnally first used this ability why it was retarded/magical that she could do this with a single question. Nunnally being able to tell someone is lying through a lie detector mechanism is impossible. Her being able to tell their thoughts is a far more likely possibility, and Lelouch's death scene seemed to confirm it. That or... you know... the little flashes to those scenes were for our benefit so we knew Nunnally realised what her brother's plan was, not something Nunnally actually saw. Imagine that. Nunnally was able to figure out something that even Kallen was able to without magical powers.