(L) Kara No Kyokai

[Reckoner]

Not bad, but I'd put at it about the level of KnK 6. It really does feel side story-ish. Well nothing they could do about it. It is nice to see the characters again at least.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

What's truly romantic are these extra chorus stories, where you have Fujino teaching a depressed girl about how beautiful life is despite being guilty of ending a handful in the most horrific way. The way these short stories emphasize the beauty make them more romantic than the main series, where the ending of Murder Speculation chose to emphasize the tragedy.

Eh? When did that happen?

[hoshino_crimsonwings]

Wow Mirai Fukuin was so damn good! I really liked their cute daughter too.

[Pesti13nce]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Eh? When did that happen?

Yeah.. I don't get where shadow comes from so I bowed out. Besides everyone takes something different and I would say shadow took a loooot different from the series But hell as long as they enjoyed it, good shit eh.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Eh? When did that happen?

What? The glasses girl was about to kill herself. Fujino used her powers and scared her out of it, then said her friend's last words.

While that is nice, don't forget that Fujino is guilty of murder in Remaining Sense of Pain.

Or are you telling me Fujino never killed anyone at all?

[Pesti13nce]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Or are you telling me Fujino never killed anyone at all?

Cause you know being gang raped on MULTIPLE occasions wouldn't turn you a little homicidal towards the ones that did that (among going most ones life with a lack of feeling then all of a sudden you can sense a VERY painful inflamed appendix), tough call both aspects disgust me, (Murder and Rape).

Well if your playing that game then everyone in this series is a homicidal murderer EXCEPT Miki, his sister, and daughter so meh, You take this series as way to literal, which is why talking about greater themes are other things with you is rather frustrating at times, but hey thats the interwebs.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Pesti13nce

Cause you know being gang raped on MULTIPLE occasions wouldn't turn you a little homicidal towards the ones that did that (among going most ones life with a lack of feeling then all of a sudden you can sense a VERY painful inflamed appendix), tough call both aspects disgust me, (Murder and Rape).

Well if your playing that game then everyone in this series is a homicidal murderer EXCEPT Miki, his sister, and daughter so meh, You take this series as way to literal, which is why talking about greater themes are other things with you is rather frustrating at times, but hey thats the interwebs.

???

Asagami Fujino outright stated in her extra chorus story that she committed crimes that she can't take back. I don't think overlooking that for the sake of love is fair to her or Shiki's character either.

The subtitle of the series is The Garden of Sinners.

From Mikiya:

"...... I think sins are things people willingly burden themselves with. A burden that one casts on themselves according to their views, that is what a sin is. The more compassion you have, the heavier a burden your sin becomes. The more common sense you have, the heavier a burden your sin becomes. Asagami Fujino's sins become heavier and more painful as she gets happier."

The story is about Shiki's growing burden as she gains compassion through Mikiya's guidance. Ignoring that burden (and the burden of other characters like her) isn't really looking at "the greater themes" either. None of the characters try to sugarcoat their crimes, so we shouldn't either.

[Last Sinner]

An essential part of love is being able to forgive/accept a person's sins/flaws and be able to stick with them for the long run. Nasu is never one to give you a readily likeable character without some major spanners in the works. He will challenge you every time. It's harder to mount a case for someone like Shiki but she is still deserving of love and if anyone could mount a case in such a scenario, Nasu certainly can.

[psycho bolt]

Loved the background art in Mirai Fukuin

[GDB]

Was Mana referring to SHIKI as her father at the end, rather than Mikiya? That's... kind of weird. And on a similar note, is there a MANA?

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by GDB

Was Mana referring to SHIKI as her father at the end, rather than Mikiya? That's... kind of weird. And on a similar note, is there a MANA?

No, Mana was quite clearly referring to Mikiya. SHIKI has been long gone since he killed himself in Murder Speculation Part 1 to get rid of the memories they had over the entire incident that led Shiki to believe herself to be a murderer. The SHIKI scene with the fortune teller is a flashback. As the fortune teller says, he will die, but his dream will live on.

In one part, Mana tells Kamekura that he reminds her of her father, who is also disabled in one eye and nice enough to help out when a girl needs it.




As for the MANA idea, Nasu states in a the Q&A pamphlet for this movie that she has no special powers.

[GDB]

I actually got the feeling that she was talking about SHIKI before the scene where she talked about Kamekura resembling her dad. The way she said her mother... no, her father owed the fortune teller made is what made me think that. Plus, as far as I know, Mikiya never visited her, only SHIKI and Shiki.

[Shadow5YA]

Oh, I see what you're talking about now, but that scene was after she talked about Kamekura resembling her dad.

You're right that Mana is implying SHIKI is her second father. Notice how she says "papa" when she was talking about Mikiya, but uses "otou-sama" in the scene you're talking about.

[Pesti13nce]

yea, Shadow's got it, she said that Her "mo....(small pause) FATHER was in Mifune's care before." She seems to refer to SHIKI as her FATHER and Mikiya indeed as "papa". So maybe SHIKI came back? cause how would mana know about SHIKI if SHIKI was supposedly dead? I would kinda like to see a movie that spans those 10 years between 7-8 for sure.

The Type Moon wiki has some quotes/lines and such that i'm assuming only are in the LN? There is a LN on this right? A few dissucsions on MAL about the movies with people who read the LN said that a lot of the parts where shiki is like pausing or thinking in the movies and such are explained in the LN (like inner monologues and stuff i guess).

Spoiler for Mana!:

From the Type moon wiki: This quote must be a LN quote i'm guessing?
"Mana Ryougi is Shiki and Mikiya's daughter. The one who named Mana was Mikiya. Mikiya himself came up with the name without a second thought, but Shiki knew its meaning. She said with a sour look on her face, "Ah, so that's what it is." and accepted anyways"

One thing I gotta comment on these movies... 1998-99' was one hell of a year for Shiki and Mikiya.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Pesti13nce

yea, Shadow's got it, she said that Her "mo....(small pause) FATHER was in Mifune's care before." She seems to refer to SHIKI as her FATHER and Mikiya indeed as "papa". So maybe SHIKI came back? cause how would mana know about SHIKI if SHIKI was supposedly dead? I would kinda like to see a movie that spans those 10 years between 7-8 for sure.

I think it's more likely Mikiya just told Mana all he knew about Shiki, which her includes her multiple personalities since he did talk to SHIKI on several occasions. The Ryougi clan also passes inheritance based on whether their children can manifest multiple personalities (which is the reason why Shiki became the head instead of her older brother), so she also owes SHIKI quite a bit.

The fortune teller drove the point home that SHIKI died and had no future.

Originally Posted by Pesti13nce

The Type Moon wiki has some quotes/lines and such that i'm assuming only are in the LN? There is a LN on this right? A few dissucsions on MAL about the movies with people who read the LN said that a lot of the parts where shiki is like pausing or thinking in the movies and such are explained in the LN (like inner monologues and stuff i guess).

The novel is directly narrated by Mikiya and Shiki, so naturally some of their internal monologues come out. One example is a school scene in Murder Speculation Part 1 where Mikiya asks Shiki if she is cold wearing her kimono all the time and what she will do about the winter. Shiki talks about how it would be a pain to change out of a kimono for PE class, and when she tells Mikiya she'll just wear a jacket, that's when the idea actually dawned on her

Oblivion Recorder in particular is completely different, since the movie never addresses what happens to Kurogiri Satsuki along with a bunch of other things.

[Pesti13nce]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I think it's more likely Mikiya just told Mana all he knew about Shiki, which her includes her multiple personalities since he did talk to SHIKI on several occasions.

The fortune teller drove the point home that SHIKI died and had no future.



The novel is directly narrated by Mikiya and Shiki, so naturally some of their internal monologues come out. One example is a school scene in Murder Speculation Part 1 where Mikiya asks Shiki if she is cold wearing her kimono all the time and what she will do about the winter. Shiki talks about how it would be a pain to change out of a kimono for PE class, and when she tells Mikiya she'll just wear a jacket, that's when the idea actually dawned on her

Oblivion Recorder in particular is completely different, since the movie never addresses what happens to Kurogiri Satsuki along with a bunch of other things.

Yea thats what i thought, I just wish LN's and (book reading in general) didn't bore the hell outta me, I def missed out on a lot more insight and such that I probably would like to know.

Tho it seems.... Mana... is without a doubt... got one of hell a head on her shoulders just like her old man. It's like a male version of Mikiya... I think they did a good job on developing Mana's character i mean no doubt.. if you've seen the other movies you know that she is INDEED Mikiyas daughter (and not just from the physical looks, eyes).

[Shadow5YA]

I actually didn't get to read the source material until after I watched the movies. To my surprise, I found Oblivion Recorder to be one of the better entries into the series, being a perfect lead into Murder Speculation Part 2. The novel actually covered most of the loose ends that made the movie seem like a side story to me. Azaka, Shiki, and Kurogiri Satsuki were all better characterized, their powers were described in better detail, and the story made connections not shown in the movie that explain why it's such an important entry.

The series as a whole isn't very long, since pagewise the publishers could compile it into two books (Overlooking View to Paradox Spiral, Oblivion Recorder to Murder Speculation 2)

[Kanon]

I didn't enjoy the first part all that much but the second part was great. Mana is like a mini Azaka, if I didn't know any better I would have thought Azaka was her real mother lol. She even shares the same goal as her aunt: stealing Mikiya away from Shiki. A bit disappointed we didn't see older Shiki more, she looked gorgeous. I wish we could have seen the other characters too.

Extra chorus was really good. I liked it better than than the actual movie to be honest.

Originally Posted by Pesti13nce

The Type Moon wiki has some quotes/lines and such that i'm assuming only are in the LN? There is a LN on this right? A few dissucsions on MAL about the movies with people who read the LN said that a lot of the parts where shiki is like pausing or thinking in the movies and such are explained in the LN (like inner monologues and stuff i guess).

Spoiler for Mana!:

From the Type moon wiki: This quote must be a LN quote i'm guessing?
"Mana Ryougi is Shiki and Mikiya's daughter. The one who named Mana was Mikiya. Mikiya himself came up with the name without a second thought, but Shiki knew its meaning. She said with a sour look on her face, "Ah, so that's what it is." and accepted anyways"

One thing I gotta comment on these movies... 1998-99' was one hell of a year for Shiki and Mikiya.

So what's the meaning of Mana's name?

[Pesti13nce]

Originally Posted by Kanon

So what's the meaning of Mana's name?

No idea. .. hopping someone who read the book would know, as manas birth wasnt covered in the movies it went from chap 7 to mana is 10years old lol.

[Shadow5YA]

It's not a light novel quote. It's part of the Q&A pamphlet.

Originally Posted by TYPE-MOON Fes. Official Pamphlet 10th Anniversary Q & A Booklet

Q: Who named Ryougi Mana? Was it Shiki, or Kokuto? Or was it someone else?

Nasu: The one who named Mana was Mikiya. Mikiya himself came up with the name without a second thought, but Shiki knew its meaning. She said with a sour look on her face, "Ah, so that's what it is." and accepted anyways.

Maybe someone who is more proficient with kanji can tell us what 未那 means.