(L) The Surprise of Haruhi Suzumiya (Novels 10/11) Spoiler Discussion

[keri]

Originally Posted by Rice_slayer

Any idea when we will get to see the English versions of these? It's been sooo long since I read the translation for book 9, good thing I found this post, just saw a post on /a/ that the 10/11th books were out.

I don't know about unofficial translations, but the Little, Brown editions for the English market should be available in winter of 2013/2014. We just got #5 and they're released at a rate of about 1 every 6 months. No clue if they'll release both of the Surprise volumes at the same time, though. (Presuming that Hachette/Little, Brown have the license for Surprise in addition to the current 9.)

Unofficial translations could pop anywhere between next week and two months from now. It depends on who is willing to translate, how much time they have to translate, and so on.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

So I need to somewhat apologize: I left out something in the BIG spoilers earlier because I didn't have enough confidence to put it. Now, with something else I can elaborate.

Spoiler for New/elaboration:

Fujiwara's goal is to use Haruhi's power in the future to alter the space-time continuum. He's the one who gets attacked by Koizumi (Fumoffu!) when he's attacking Haruhi. Koizumi is said to be quite perceptive when it comes to time travelers.

So does that have anything to do with the earlier novels concerning the attempted murder of the boy who would invent time travel?

Or are they brushing it off as "something they had to do because of pre-determined events" and get away with it?

(You know, like "I wasn't going to succeed anyway, so it doesn't really count as murder")

[VentAileron]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

So does that have anything to do with the earlier novels concerning the attempted murder of the boy who would invent time travel?

Spoiler for Response:

It most certainly has. Fujiwara is trying to distort the space-time continuum for whatever reason and goal. By killing a key person would certainly throw things into a mess, but we've no idea what he would exactly achieve with that.

I'm slightly surprised that they would start to use supernatural violence to solve things though, not that it didn't happen in the past (Asakura...).

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by VentAileron

Spoiler for Response:

It most certainly has. Fujiwara is trying to distort the space-time continuum for whatever reason and goal. By killing a key person would certainly throw things into a mess, but we've no idea what he would exactly achieve with that.

I'm slightly surprised that they would start to use supernatural violence to solve things though, not that it didn't happen in the past (Asakura...).

The problem is the implied paradox that time travellers are unable to change what they know about history. I was merely pointing out if he could justify his actions purely via "because history said I would do it".

There is also the major issue about a certain essay Haruhi wrote for the literature club relating to that boy... Does Fujiwara know of it, or did Mikuru keep that a secret from the organisation and everyone else?

[VentAileron]

Spoiler for Response:

I really don't think he would. The 'first' Fujiwara in all the time planes would have had a reason other than 'History told me I would do it' to do what he did, so the current Fujiwara will justify his actions in the same way the ones before him did.

Also, fate isn't a paradox, it's the law!

[Wigwams]

Spoiler for fujiwara:

so did he say his real name? i mean IIRC fujiwara was just a fake name right?

[VentAileron]

Originally Posted by Wigwams

Spoiler for fujiwara:

so did he say his real name? i mean IIRC fujiwara was just a fake name right?

Spoiler for Response:

It was implied that it was a fake name by Kyon's narration (so Kyon thinks it's a fake). If he's truly Mikuru's brother (is he older or younger than Mikuru?), then his family name would be Asahina.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by VentAileron

Spoiler for Response:

It was implied that it was a fake name by Kyon's narration (so Kyon thinks it's a fake). If he's truly Mikuru's brother (is he older or younger than Mikuru?), then his family name would be Asahina.

You are assuming Mikuru Asahina is using her real name.

If I was to run a time cop agency, I would make sure all my agents work under full aliases. It simply doesn't make sense to use birth names that might cause issues when in the Past. That is unless, of course, Mikuru is forced to use her real name because of temporal consistency. But I find that unlikely.

[VentAileron]

Good point. But then again, it's never really suggested she's using an alias. Even though it would be logical from the policy you suggested and the mysteries behind the three factions, it's going a bit far to suspect Mikuru of using an alias. I mean if she is using one, anybody could be using one!

Question megax:

Spoiler for Question:

Haruhi created Yasumi to save Kyon and Yuki from their troubles. Do you also know what troubles? I mean, they weren't really in some obvious trouble in Intrigues.

[s07195]

Picked up the Chinese version. Hoping to start reading it within the week.

Thank goodness it's not the last novel!

[ultimatemegax]

So here's a little summary of what happens character by character in the different "routes":

Spoiler for alpha:

Haruhi - Flirts with Kyon and perhaps begins the process of going to the same university?
Kyon - Flirts with Haruhi and has doubts about Yasumi
Mikuru - Thinks Yasumi is *ADORABLE*! (umx comment - Seriously, expect some yuri doujins from this couple)
ITDE Interfaces - Nothing
Koizumi - Advises Kyon and has meaningless conversations
Yasumi - The expected new member? Takes guidance from Kyon and integrates the routes
Sasaki/others - Not seen

Spoiler for beta:

Haruhi - Takes care of Yuki
Kyon - Is ordered to hand over Haruhi's power to the Sasaki side
Yuki - Has the "cold" due to contact from the Sky Canopy Domain
Koizumi - Advises Kyon, but finally shows his true character
Sasaki - Doesn't want to go along with the others' request. Seems to be infatuated with Kyon. Declares that she wants to change the world with Kyon.
Kyouko - Apologizes from beginning to end. Appears to be no threat
Fujiwara - Acquires a "regulated item". Very "bad guy"ish
Kuyou - Wants to know more about humans but had a bad experience
Asakura - Encounters Kuyou (preview) and that's it
Yasumi - Appears briefly

Spoiler for end part:

Integrated Route
Haruhi - Runs from being killed by Fujiwara. Also continues plans for university with Kyon
Kyon - Is absolutely useless. Goes to Haruhi's rescue, but can't do anything. Later appears to begin plans for university with Haruhi.
Yasumi - Uses Haruhi's power to mend the universes
Koizumi - "Don't look down on this time period's people!" and challenges Fujiwara
ITDE interfaces - Silently supporting everyone
Mikuru (big) - Affirms that regulated items are regulated
Fujiwara - "Mikuru-oneechan!"; Is in a rush, so tries to kill Haruhi but that ends up poorly.
Kuyou - Is the mastermind behind Fujiwara's plots
Sasaki/Kyouko - Don't appear

And a confirmation of something I speculated earlier:

Spoiler:

Fujiwara calls Mikuru his older sister. Mikuru (big) states specifically "I do not have a younger brother."

[RRW]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

So here's a little summary of what happens character by character in the different "routes":

Spoiler for alpha:

Haruhi - Flirts with Kyon and perhaps begins the process of going to the same university?
Kyon - Flirts with Haruhi and has doubts about Yasumi
Mikuru - Thinks Yasumi is *ADORABLE*! (umx comment - Seriously, expect some yuri doujins from this couple)
ITDE Interfaces - Nothing
Koizumi - Advises Kyon and has meaningless conversations
Yasumi - The expected new member? Takes guidance from Kyon and integrates the routes
Sasaki/others - Not seen

Spoiler for beta:

Haruhi - Takes care of Yuki
Kyon - Is ordered to hand over Haruhi's power to the Sasaki side
Yuki - Has the "cold" due to contact from the Sky Canopy Domain
Koizumi - Advises Kyon, but finally shows his true character
Sasaki - Doesn't want to go along with the others' request. Seems to be infatuated with Kyon. Declares that she wants to change the world with Kyon.
Kyouko - Apologizes from beginning to end. Appears to be no threat
Fujiwara - Acquires a "regulated item". Very "bad guy"ish
Kuyou - Wants to know more about humans but had a bad experience
Asakura - Encounters Kuyou (preview) and that's it
Yasumi - Appears briefly

Spoiler for end part:

Integrated Route
Haruhi - Runs from being killed by Fujiwara. Also continues plans for university with Kyon
Kyon - Is absolutely useless. Goes to Haruhi's rescue, but can't do anything. Later appears to begin plans for university with Haruhi.
Yasumi - Uses Haruhi's power to mend the universes
Koizumi - "Don't look down on this time period's people!" and challenges Fujiwara
ITDE interfaces - Silently supporting everyone
Mikuru (big) - Affirms that regulated items are regulated
Fujiwara - "Mikuru-oneechan!"; Is in a rush, so tries to kill Haruhi but that ends up poorly.
Kuyou - Is the mastermind behind Fujiwara's plots
Sasaki/Kyouko - Don't appear

And a confirmation of something I speculated earlier:

Spoiler:

Fujiwara calls Mikuru his older sister. Mikuru (big) states specifically "I do not have a younger brother."

Spoiler for q:

so basically alpha timeline is simply introduction of yasumi?
also does university mean haruhi and kyon are planning in same university?

[VentAileron]

Spoiler for Reaction:

That makes it sound like as if there are too many characters for even two novels to support. I mean, Sasaki, Kyouko, Yuki & Co and Mikuru basically do nothing in both novels? That's kind of hard to believe, since this story arc seems to involve everyone.

Kyon's sister versus Yasumi; the battle of the adorable characters!

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by VentAileron

Question megax:

Spoiler for Question:

Haruhi created Yasumi to save Kyon and Yuki from their troubles. Do you also know what troubles? I mean, they weren't really in some obvious trouble in Intrigues.

Spoiler for response:

It's the troubles from the beta timeline. Haruhi creates Yasumi in the beta timeline, then Yasumi does something (I've not read what) to create the split timelines.

Originally Posted by RRW

Spoiler for q:

so basically alpha timeline is simply introduction of yasumi?
also does university mean haruhi and kyon are planning in same university?

Yes and Yes

Originally Posted by VentAileron

Spoiler for Reaction:

That makes it sound like as if there are too many characters for even two novels to support. I mean, Sasaki, Kyouko, Yuki & Co and Mikuru basically do nothing in both novels? That's kind of hard to believe, since this story arc seems to involve everyone.

Kyon's sister versus Yasumi; the battle of the adorable characters!

Spoiler for reply:

All universes have too many character to fully focus on each novel. How many times have we had a Koizumi-centric story?! The point of alpha is to show what would happen normally without the interference from the Sasaki faction (and to introduce Yasumi). It's not designed to mention those people, much less Kimidori or Asakura.

Keep in mind that these are incredibly brief summaries of the timelines. They don't go into details, so there's the possibility that more characters are mentioned, like Kyon's Sister.

So for non-spoiler fans (are there still some out there?), here's the layout of the two novels:
The Surprise of Haruhi Suzumiya (First Part):
Chapter 4: pg. 5-67
Chapter 5: pg. 68-188
Chapter 6: pg. 189-291

The Surprise of Haruhi Suzumiya (Final Part) (I've also used (Latter Part) to signal that it's not the last novel, but since that news has gotten out, I'm referring back to this):
Chapter 7: pg. 5-78
Chapter 8: pg. 79-135
Chapter 9: pg. 136-148
Final Chapter: pg. 149-221
Epilogue: pg. 222-276
Afterword: pg. 276-282

[VentAileron]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

Spoiler for reply:

Keep in mind that these are incredibly brief summaries of the timelines. They don't go into details, so there's the possibility that more characters are mentioned, like Kyon's Sister.

Spoiler for Response:

I'm well aware of that, that's why I put 'That makes it sound like', in my first sentence. Should've put something more clear at the end as well. It sounded so harsh and hard to believe to see some characters 'do nothing' or only 'briefly appears'.

I agree that each arc usually has only a handful characters under the spotlight,. The point being, that according to what you posted, it makes it sound like with so many new characters, the attention has shifted a bit if you notice that Yuki and Mikuru (and even Sasaki?!) don't get much appearance. That might feel a bit awkward for the fans of the 'vanilla' cast. Not me though, but it creates room for criticism.

I'm also not sure if the alpha-timeline is supposed to show us the mundane world without the Sasaki intervention and introduce us to Yasumi. I mean you might be able to conclude that, but I haven't seen enough to conclude that.

Also umm...I believe I've read somewhere on another page that is was Fujiwara who used the 'regulated item' to split the world. But now you're saying Yasumi is the one who did it?

So the two novels, despite being two separate items, actually continue from one to another huh.

[RRW]

Spoiler for speculation:

well that confirm my speculation, Yasumi probably created alpha timeline so he can at least talk to kyon for long time before she do the duty as "protector". you know she created by haruhi. so i bet few
of haruhi personality is copied to yasumi.
still no info what happen to her after the merging?

[Ithekro]

Makes one wonder where they will go in Book 12.

[Grahf616]

Spoiler for Question:

I'm just a little unclear. Are the two timelines now integrated, or are they still going off in their own directions? If they are integrated, then what's been kept from each?

[RRW]

Originally Posted by Grahf616

Spoiler for Question:

I'm just a little unclear. Are the two timelines now integrated, or are they still going off in their own directions? If they are integrated, then what's been kept from each?

Spoiler for :

yasumi combine it

[AmyElizzabeth]

Spoiler for Fujiwara:

In the 7thnovel (I think that's where he was first introduced), he was kind of rude towards Mikuru. But apparently they are/aren't siblings..was that whole deal ever explained?
And how does he try to kill Haruhi? With a knife?