AnimeSuki Forums

houkoholic · 2009-01-14, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetoJR

And that's your proof he's dense? Because he pays more attention to someone who's obviously more important to him than the other girl? I mean, really?

Yes really. Because we know he is not conciously putting effort into understanding either girl (his attention is still fixed on Minorin remember) but he gets the signal from Taiga almost straight away (mostly because they spend so much time together), yet he cannot decipher similiar body languages from Ami.

BetoJR · 2009-01-14, 09:38

houkoholic, you countered your own point when you stated that Ryuji mostly spends more time with Taiga than with Ami, and that he's fixed on Minorin. I mean, really, you actually expect any adolescent male to be deviously perceptive all the time?

Ami sends mixed signals to him all the time. He can't be really faulted for not getting it. Nor can he be categorized as dense for this peccadillo.

cloner4000 · 2009-01-14, 16:12

Well, I think a lot of it is really up to personal opinions and what you deduct from the Anime/Novel.

Because I detect a lot of signs that Ryuuji still find Ami attractive, weather its at the beach or when she make some advance on her. But he convince himself that she's doing that to sting Taiga, so yeah he doesn't really pay all that much attention to it.

I agree with you on that Ami is definitely looking at how Ryuuji is treating Taiga and probably Jealous, but I think there is definitely a romantic side to it.

The baseball practice zone in 6th novel ( I won't spoil it, but if you read it you should know which scene I am referring to) I think its pretty clear, at least to me, that Ami is very conscious of Ryuuji, otherwise her reaction would not be like that.

cloner4000 · 2009-01-14, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voitan

I haven't read the novels all the way, but I can understand people having a more set impression of how Ami views Ryuuji in either way depending on who's had more exposure to either the anime or the light novels.

I got into Toradora through the anime and I'm guessing here that many who assume Ami is interested in Ryuuji is because of the anime being their first introduction to the series.

Novel readers as I understand it have a solid impression of her just being a mediator of sorts, with no definitive evidence that she's interested in Ryuuji or not.

Well I start with Novel, but I still think Ami like Ryuuji, well, its not really till the 4th book where she semi-confessed to Ryuuji (the anime first of all, cut that part off).

Then I start rereading all the books and that when I start looking for signs in the novel, and I must say, there is plenty and some can easily turn into very fluffy situations.

Although if you aren't looking for it, Taiga would pretty much take the spotlight.

I mean, I didn't think Minorin is interested in Ryuuji either till the anime ep 14 and hearing some people talked about it and then some parts I read in the novels. The author really knows how to hide it well.

typhonsentra · 2009-01-14, 19:06

At least at this point in the story, it's more likely he's just suspect of anything nice she does because of his initial encounter with her.

Master Assassin · 2009-01-14, 21:48

Some of the crucial storytelling scenes that I believe can prove that Ami does like Ryuuji in the novels hasn't been retold in the anime, not to mention the most recent episode today.

And here's some of my thoughts on her interaction with Ryuuji...

Quote:

At least at this point in the story, it's more likely he's just suspect of anything nice she does because of his initial encounter with her.

Which makes Ami's "business" with Ryuuji even harder. But you know, I love it when girls in anime plays smart and consistent to get a dude. Ami in this instance does just that, which makes her attractive in my opinion. Although Ryuuji seems to be trying too much to be on guard knowing Ami's actual personality and I know all he wants to do is trying to avoid getting in a mess with her.

But sometimes his "I-see-now-how-Ami-really-is" thought + "beware-of-Ami guard" is completely unnecessary in some situations... and I'm thinking it's getting more and more unnecessary the more he interacts with Ami.

... Just how better can this get?

typhonsentra · 2009-01-14, 21:54

Spoiler:

Master Assassin · 2009-01-14, 22:25

When you said that... I am reminded that all the "hulabaloo" and blah blah blah stuffs between Ami and Ryuuji... I still don't believe that Ami is doing that to help Taiga, nor that what she does with Ryuuji is a mere appreciation of sorts that makes us believe she likes him, but is actually not.

Or she might be "doing it for Taiga's sake" because it's to cover up what she's actually having in her mind.

Anyway, I hope it's safe to say that I don't believe that she isn't attracted to Ryuuji. Attracted as in... well, you know. Even till now. From volume 1.

Although I acknowledge I am at an obvious disadvantage compared to those who're able to acquire and read through volumes 6 and above if I am ever asked to prove whatever I have in my mind...

typhonsentra · 2009-01-14, 22:30

Well I think its safe to say she didn't like him in volume 1.

cloner4000 · 2009-01-15, 00:17

Ahhh...Despair....how could they have skip the scene...that's very disheartening. I was so looking forward to this one too...

physics223 · 2009-01-15, 00:26

Someone elaborate on a spoiler what that scene actually is? Please?

Master Assassin · 2009-01-15, 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by physics223

Someone elaborate on a spoiler what that scene actually is? Please?

Which one? The baseball cage scene?

physics223 · 2009-01-15, 00:42

Yeah, that one.

wistfulloner · 2009-01-15, 01:15

Spoiler for Baseball scene:

That about sums it up.

Master Assassin · 2009-01-15, 01:22

@ physics223: This is based from a re-reading and rebriefing whatever I have read there... I'm basically retelling the story as I read through it.

Spoiler for What happened? Let's see...:

In Volume 6, after finishing her turn trying to strike the ball (which I don't know whether she intentionally missed every single one of them or simply doesn't know a thing about how to swing a baseball bat in a game) she went to sit down beside Ryuuji who was watching as Taiga goes to the pitch for the game.

Here we see a hint of jealousy as Ami was described as "getting even more bored" as Ryuuji compliments Taiga's successful hit on the ball. Ami then tried to make Ryuuji follow her to get some drinks, all that while grabbing Ryuuji's arm with both of hers. Simply said it's how your girlfriend holds on to you at the arm which basically means only your other arm is free... oops too much details here, let's go on to what's next.

To Ami's surprise Ryuuji didn't reject her request at all, and she started to feel weird upon his response and asked Ryuuji whether he's scheming anything. Ryuuji just said that he isn't, because he is not Ami. Ami replies she never schemed anything and follows Ryuuji, standing up to go together with him while her arms are still locking Ryuuji's while saying there's something she wants to do.

Ami got a little bit too close to Ryuuji, the smell of her perfume gets to him and Ami teases him about that. She then calls out to Yuusaku saying that they (she and Ryuuji) are going to take a break. Taiga saw this (Ami holding on tight to Ryuuji's arm) and was sort of - shocked, although Ryuuji tried to tell Taiga using some signals that it was to let her be alone with Yuusaku. Later when the two left to go to where they're going, Ami turned back and happily gave a face (she stuck her tongue out) to Taiga. And Taiga's shock ensues...

At the vending machine...

Ami joked about how they're finally alone together (again, Ami? Do you remember much of your "alone together with Ryuuji" has been spoiled already!?) although Ryuuji shows little reaction to it, and simply replies that he knows how she is already and points out that she's doing it for the fun of teasing Taiga before telling her to sit somewhere as he goes and buys the drinks for her. Ami then suddenly said that she'll buy it herself and then made another "I'm bored" remark.

Noticing this, Ryuuji then thought of making Ami pay for all the teasings she's done to him - during that instant, and starts off with teasing her that she can't bear it if he were to be separated from her, and pretended to hug her from behind. Ami was shocked with that gesture, however, and was immediately teased again by Ryuuji with the words "You screamed! You screamed!". Ami, putting up a response you'd normally expect from a girl being teased by a guy (mad, etc, puffing cheeks etc) immediately asked Ryuuji to buy her a drink instead.

She's further teased when she asked from Ryuuji honeydew juice and Ryuuji remarked whether it's all right for a model to drink such sugary drinks, to which Ami angrily responded yes and followed with a "Don't stick your nose into other people's business" remark.

Ryuuji asked whether it's okay for him to apologize and then saying how he was only joking, just like how Ami is jokingly sticking to Ryuuji. Ami then says she's not angry about that so this lead to him asking back what is it that makes her angry. She just replied "never mind" before saying there are things Ryuuji will not understand. The conversation seemed to end that way, but not when...

... Ryuuji asked her back whether she's angry from all the events that led up to that time, such as frustration from work, Yuusaku's attitude, and his teasing of her; and Ami replied it's not that she's upset with. Ryuuji then remarks that Ami is such of a woman too hard to be understood. She just coldly replied with, "If that person isn't willing to make that kind of effort to understand me, then he has no right to become my other half. And......I'm worth the effort right?"

Ryuuji then said that she's not the only one who's hard for him to understand, and said something regarding Yuusaku, then asks whether what Yuusaku said was the truth, which made Ami go "Huh~~?" before replying with this:

"That's---why---I---said---regardless of whether its true or not, Yuusaku is hoping that 'someone' would......never mind, I said that I wouldn't get involved in this, so you don't have to report such things to me. I feel stupid just by being together with Yuusaku."

Then you heard it - the ZOMGTAIGAWONAPRIZE alarm from the baseball pitch, back to where Yuusaku and Taiga is. Basically, Ami is being interrupted again, after Minori's scream during the Kawashima mansion arc.

Hope that helps...

physics223 · 2009-01-15, 04:16

@SA

Thank you.

cloner4000 · 2009-01-15, 13:37

Yea, that's a really detailed version of what happened.

mind telling me how to do that?

BetoJR · 2009-01-15, 13:47

cloner4000, maybe you should put your comment about the whole scene in spoiler tags, for people who haven't really read that bit of the novels, just yet?

typhonsentra · 2009-01-15, 15:46

You kinda exaggerate a certain detail...

Spoiler:

wistfulloner · 2009-01-16, 05:10

I had this thought about the Kitamura arc. Perhaps Kitamura isn't the central figure in this story arc, Ami should be the one. If you read forward, you might notice Kitamura doesn't have a real legitimate reason for his behavior. Instead he's just simply emoing and childishly refusing the post of Council Prez.

The one who has the most to gain emotionally would be Ami, since she really does challenge herself on her maturity throughout Ep 14 & 15. All throughout the episodes, she has received conflicting opinions as to how mature she is, and trying to correctly apply it to her own life (For instance, trying to be mature when facing the Kitamura dilemma although not very sure of her maturity to handle it). She really just seems to be the one who could learn the most from this situation, instead of just acting out like Kitamura. As they say, effective medicine is always bitter.

2009-01-14, 21:54	Link #287
typhonsentra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA	Spoiler: Some of the spoilers from the novel readers used to say that it's revealed that her motivation behind her actions in the second half of the series is mainly in order to help Taiga. Does she ever confirm that or is this conjecture based on hints? Does she ever say that Taiga and Ryuuji should be together?

2009-01-14, 22:25	Link #288
Master Assassin Portable Dude Mk. II Artist Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: All ghillied up spying on someone ~2,000 yards away using telescope sights. Age: 35	When you said that... I am reminded that all the "hulabaloo" and blah blah blah stuffs between Ami and Ryuuji... I still don't believe that Ami is doing that to help Taiga, nor that what she does with Ryuuji is a mere appreciation of sorts that makes us believe she likes him, but is actually not. Or she might be "doing it for Taiga's sake" because it's to cover up what she's actually having in her mind. Anyway, I hope it's safe to say that I don't believe that she isn't attracted to Ryuuji. Attracted as in... well, you know. Even till now. From volume 1. Although I acknowledge I am at an obvious disadvantage compared to those who're able to acquire and read through volumes 6 and above if I am ever asked to prove whatever I have in my mind... __________________ I like to run portable on my dude, so I ran while running runs in my portably portable, dude-like dude. --- This line over here is a placeholder. ----

2009-01-15, 00:26	Link #291
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	Someone elaborate on a spoiler what that scene actually is? Please? __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2009-01-15, 00:42	Link #293
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	Yeah, that one. __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2009-01-15, 01:15	Link #294
wistfulloner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Singapore	Spoiler for Baseball scene: Instead of the threesome going out to the baseball cage as in the anime, Ami actually joins them before that, then follows them to the cage. Trying to tease Taiga, Ami grabs onto Ryuji and loudly announces their intention to go for a break, much to Taiga's shock and anger. She then "ditches" Ryuji when out of Taiga's sight. This leads to some banter between the two where they discuss how complicated she is to understand and more of what she thinks of Kitamura. That about sums it up.

2009-01-14, 16:12	Link #283
cloner4000 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	Well, I think a lot of it is really up to personal opinions and what you deduct from the Anime/Novel. Because I detect a lot of signs that Ryuuji still find Ami attractive, weather its at the beach or when she make some advance on her. But he convince himself that she's doing that to sting Taiga, so yeah he doesn't really pay all that much attention to it. I agree with you on that Ami is definitely looking at how Ryuuji is treating Taiga and probably Jealous, but I think there is definitely a romantic side to it. The baseball practice zone in 6th novel ( I won't spoil it, but if you read it you should know which scene I am referring to) I think its pretty clear, at least to me, that Ami is very conscious of Ryuuji, otherwise her reaction would not be like that.

2009-01-14, 19:06	Link #285
typhonsentra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA	At least at this point in the story, it's more likely he's just suspect of anything nice she does because of his initial encounter with her.

2009-01-14, 22:30	Link #289
typhonsentra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA	Well I think its safe to say she didn't like him in volume 1.

2009-01-15, 00:17	Link #290
cloner4000 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	Ahhh...Despair....how could they have skip the scene...that's very disheartening. I was so looking forward to this one too...

2009-01-15, 01:22	Link #295
Master Assassin Portable Dude Mk. II Artist Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: All ghillied up spying on someone ~2,000 yards away using telescope sights. Age: 35	@ physics223: This is based from a re-reading and rebriefing whatever I have read there... I'm basically retelling the story as I read through it. Spoiler for What happened? Let's see...: In Volume 6, after finishing her turn trying to strike the ball (which I don't know whether she intentionally missed every single one of them or simply doesn't know a thing about how to swing a baseball bat in a game) she went to sit down beside Ryuuji who was watching as Taiga goes to the pitch for the game. Here we see a hint of jealousy as Ami was described as "getting even more bored" as Ryuuji compliments Taiga's successful hit on the ball. Ami then tried to make Ryuuji follow her to get some drinks, all that while grabbing Ryuuji's arm with both of hers. Simply said it's how your girlfriend holds on to you at the arm which basically means only your other arm is free... oops too much details here, let's go on to what's next. To Ami's surprise Ryuuji didn't reject her request at all, and she started to feel weird upon his response and asked Ryuuji whether he's scheming anything. Ryuuji just said that he isn't, because he is not Ami. Ami replies she never schemed anything and follows Ryuuji, standing up to go together with him while her arms are still locking Ryuuji's while saying there's something she wants to do. Ami got a little bit too close to Ryuuji, the smell of her perfume gets to him and Ami teases him about that. She then calls out to Yuusaku saying that they (she and Ryuuji) are going to take a break. Taiga saw this (Ami holding on tight to Ryuuji's arm) and was sort of - shocked, although Ryuuji tried to tell Taiga using some signals that it was to let her be alone with Yuusaku. Later when the two left to go to where they're going, Ami turned back and happily gave a face (she stuck her tongue out) to Taiga. And Taiga's shock ensues... At the vending machine... Ami joked about how they're finally alone together (again, Ami? Do you remember much of your "alone together with Ryuuji" has been spoiled already!?) although Ryuuji shows little reaction to it, and simply replies that he knows how she is already and points out that she's doing it for the fun of teasing Taiga before telling her to sit somewhere as he goes and buys the drinks for her. Ami then suddenly said that she'll buy it herself and then made another "I'm bored" remark. Noticing this, Ryuuji then thought of making Ami pay for all the teasings she's done to him - during that instant, and starts off with teasing her that she can't bear it if he were to be separated from her, and pretended to hug her from behind. Ami was shocked with that gesture, however, and was immediately teased again by Ryuuji with the words "You screamed! You screamed!". Ami, putting up a response you'd normally expect from a girl being teased by a guy (mad, etc, puffing cheeks etc) immediately asked Ryuuji to buy her a drink instead. She's further teased when she asked from Ryuuji honeydew juice and Ryuuji remarked whether it's all right for a model to drink such sugary drinks, to which Ami angrily responded yes and followed with a "Don't stick your nose into other people's business" remark. Ryuuji asked whether it's okay for him to apologize and then saying how he was only joking, just like how Ami is jokingly sticking to Ryuuji. Ami then says she's not angry about that so this lead to him asking back what is it that makes her angry. She just replied "never mind" before saying there are things Ryuuji will not understand. The conversation seemed to end that way, but not when... ... Ryuuji asked her back whether she's angry from all the events that led up to that time, such as frustration from work, Yuusaku's attitude, and his teasing of her; and Ami replied it's not that she's upset with. Ryuuji then remarks that Ami is such of a woman too hard to be understood. She just coldly replied with, "If that person isn't willing to make that kind of effort to understand me, then he has no right to become my other half. And......I'm worth the effort right?" Ryuuji then said that she's not the only one who's hard for him to understand, and said something regarding Yuusaku, then asks whether what Yuusaku said was the truth, which made Ami go "Huh~~?" before replying with this: "That's---why---I---said---regardless of whether its true or not, Yuusaku is hoping that 'someone' would......never mind, I said that I wouldn't get involved in this, so you don't have to report such things to me. I feel stupid just by being together with Yuusaku." Then you heard it - the ZOMGTAIGAWONAPRIZE alarm from the baseball pitch, back to where Yuusaku and Taiga is. Basically, Ami is being interrupted again, after Minori's scream during the Kawashima mansion arc. Hope that helps... __________________ I like to run portable on my dude, so I ran while running runs in my portably portable, dude-like dude. --- This line over here is a placeholder. ---- Last edited by Master Assassin; 2009-01-15 at 02:33.

2009-01-15, 04:16	Link #296
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	@SA Thank you. __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2009-01-15, 13:37	Link #297
cloner4000 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	Yea, that's a really detailed version of what happened. mind telling me how to do that? Last edited by cloner4000; 2009-01-15 at 14:16.

2009-01-15, 15:46	Link #299
typhonsentra Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: USA	You kinda exaggerate a certain detail... Spoiler: There's no delay in between her saying "Ahh, just the two of us." and "Not!" It isn't like at the end of the second book where she waits for a reaction.

2009-01-16, 05:10	Link #300
wistfulloner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Singapore	I had this thought about the Kitamura arc. Perhaps Kitamura isn't the central figure in this story arc, Ami should be the one. If you read forward, you might notice Kitamura doesn't have a real legitimate reason for his behavior. Instead he's just simply emoing and childishly refusing the post of Council Prez. The one who has the most to gain emotionally would be Ami, since she really does challenge herself on her maturity throughout Ep 14 & 15. All throughout the episodes, she has received conflicting opinions as to how mature she is, and trying to correctly apply it to her own life (For instance, trying to be mature when facing the Kitamura dilemma although not very sure of her maturity to handle it). She really just seems to be the one who could learn the most from this situation, instead of just acting out like Kitamura. As they say, effective medicine is always bitter.