[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 7 Requiem of the golden witch

[Pika_power]

Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture

Okay...okay... *panting*

I finished EP7. Before I stagger off to bed, I need to ask. I know Ryukishi/Hachijo/Featherine/whatever would be disappointed in me, but here goes.

Can someone give a coherent list of 'translations' for Will's solutions to Clair's mysteries? I grasped a few of them, but the majority just confused me even more. Help?

'illusions to illusions' means that tricks were involved. For the chain example, it means that the chain was a lie. 'Earth to earth' means that it was a real death, and there was no foul play.

[michirusan]

I'm feeling just a little baffled at something that is either missing or i just somehow missed in the Tea Party. During the observation of the so-called REAL timeline, what happened to Battler? He just sorta vanished after he left the guesthouse to go to the church for his 'trial". Even more to the point, in the Lion timeline, Battler was never on the island at all. Doesn't that allow for the Battler+Ange alive kakera Bern said no miracle would create?

[Moogleking]

You would assume that Eva finished him eventually, or he just wandered around until the island exploded.

The tea party of 7 made me think a lot more about episode 4. They share some similarities, like weird phone calls, all the adults going off somewhere, etc.

However, there are some differences. In 4, they're always mentioning magic in the phone calls, and eventually Beatrice pops out in front of Battler. Why the difference here?
What makes Yasu want to confront Battler in 4, but content to die in 7?

[Pika_power]

Originally Posted by michirusan

I'm feeling just a little baffled at something that is either missing or i just somehow missed in the Tea Party. During the observation of the so-called REAL timeline, what happened to Battler? He just sorta vanished after he left the guesthouse to go to the church for his 'trial". Even more to the point, in the Lion timeline, Battler was never on the island at all. Doesn't that allow for the Battler+Ange alive kakera Bern said no miracle would create?

It's implied that Kyrie killed him.

You know, I think you've hit on a very important point, about Battler not being on the island. Although it's pretty much certain that the Lion timeline isn't truth, even if the other one is.

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by Pika_power

It's implied that Kyrie killed him.

How? I don't remember that. She said she would if he resisted, but when he went to meet Rudolf he just sort of vanishes from the story after that. She was busy offing Maria and being Harvey Dent/The penguin with an Umbrella. So when did she find the time?

@michirusan: People beleive that Battler's disappearance implies he survived somehow. I like to imagine he followed the lion statues and found Kuwadorian.

Also Kyrie missed her shot at Beato. Calling it now.

[arson88]

EP07 Kyrie didn't trust Battler at all so she decided to finish off Battler after he left the guest house. She was waiting Battler to leave the guest house. The supporting reason is that Battler was not seen by Rudolf at the Chapel.

Although his may sound cliche, what are the odds that Genji, Kmasawa and Nanjo brought Battler to anywhere except Kuwodarian to hide?

What i don't understand is at Game Board 01 - 04, Battler is the detective so he cannot see illusions of magic but he saw and helped Kanon to lift up gardening tools at the garden..

The body that could not love, well, in a way, Yasu has blood relation with both Battler and George so is it considered incest (Aunt-Nephew)?

[Will Wright]

Originally Posted by arson88

The body that could not love, well, in a way, Yasu has blood relation with both Battler and George so is it considered incest (Aunt-Nephew)?

Yes, it's incest. The entire thing is a Greek tragedy.

[Rei-Tenshi]

I think this was asked before, but somebody clarify this for me again:

6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!

If Kanon is just a delusion by Shannon, then how does this red truth work?
A wordplay on the word "people"?

[lambdabern]

Originally Posted by Pika_power

It's implied that Kyrie killed him.

I think that the answer is given in the ending of ep 3!Battler goes to the church and finds his father dead.Then after killing kyrie eva comes in order to go to kuwadorian and finds battler there.Battler accuses her of killing his father and she goes crazy and shoots him.Otherwise there is no actual point in that scene in ep 3.

[Cao Ni Ma]

Originally Posted by Rei-Tenshi

I think this was asked before, but somebody clarify this for me again:

6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!

If Kanon is just a delusion by Shannon, then how does this red truth work?
A wordplay on the word "people"?

From that scene we knew that there was something going on with some of the servants. Battler states that one of them died from an accident after committing the crime, Beatrice was about to cut that in half with a red truth but refrained from using it so we could assume that she was capable of doing it. So yeah that lead us to believe that there must have been a name trick with the characters we knew where using pseudonyms.

Shannon would fit better because of the events with George that occurred later in the episode. She lured George out of the guest house and into the parlor where she waited for him then, if the fantasy scene had some truth in it, both of them where killed by whoever the actual culprit might be. Or Shannon is was the actual culprit, played dead for George and when he got close she stabbed him, only to be crushed by his massive girth.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Moogleking

You would assume that Eva finished him eventually

Originally Posted by Pika_power

It's implied that Kyrie killed him.

I don't think either is implied or given a proper explanation. Eva had no more reasons to kill Battler than she had for killing Ange, and if Kyrie killed Battler before letting his husband try, she'd have just a lot of problems. At any rate the story doesn't imply in any way that Kyrie planned to do that.

Originally Posted by Rei-Tenshi

I think this was asked before, but somebody clarify this for me again:

6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!

If Kanon is just a delusion by Shannon, then how does this red truth work?
A wordplay on the word "people"?

Apparently in the original Jpanese sentence it isn't actually specified that they are people. It's more like "these six". The kanji of "people" in that context is merely a counter.

[Yopee]

I just kind of feel like figuring out the howdunnit of ep7 tea party bad end is a waste of time, guys.
It's pretty obvious Bern wants us to think one way but plenty of people have pointed things out that makes them think otherwise.
Bern hasn't shown enough to really go any further about it.

Spoiler for blahblahblah:

Guns and bullets are conveniently lying around, just enough so each sibling has one for themselves.
The people who seem to be most familiar with using the guns miss vital areas against people they take by surprise (Kyrie vs Eva twice, Kyrie vs Jessica, Rudolf vs George, Rudolf vs Eva) yet hit others just fine on the first try (Kyrie vs Rosa, Kyrie vs Hideyoshi, Eva vs Rudolf, Eva vs Kyrie).
Two accidents between Eva+Hideyoshi wipes out Natsuhi+Krauss. Hell, the second accident isn't even an accident. What the frederika bernkastel sort of accident would you be doing to point a gun barrel up at goatpuncher's chin and pull the trigger?
People are out of character (Eva goes crazy and wants to blow up whole island for her accident but then calls Kyrie crazy, George being a completely pathetic meatbag against Rudolf while Jessica gives Kyrie so much trouble that she runs out of bullets, Kyrie just goes 'oh well' when Eva tells her the man she spent 18 years in love hell for was dead).

Ep7 just seems like a real quick and dirty cut and paste of ep3, 4, and 5 to me. Ep5 for the prologue setting things up for ep4 for how things went down and then ep3 as the result. Kyrie and Eva are also targeted for being the most suspicious people since ep3 and 4(Eva solves epitaph and survives in Kuwadorian, red truth about Kyrie saying she has sudden change of mind to go to mansion for food but really for an ulterior motive that nobody was told about)
The worst thing is, none of this stuff is even confirmed by Battler (or any detective) or red truths or gold truths. Well, I already said I wouldn't trust red even if it happened to say "All of this is the truth." so I guess that last point was unfair hehe

In ep4, was Eva mentioned as being found over yonder at Kuwadorian with any head injuries at all or completely unharmed? I think this detail wasn't mentioned but I have terrible memory and could be wrong.

[einhorn303]

Originally Posted by Rei-Tenshi

I think this was asked before, but somebody clarify this for me again:

6 people: Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead!

If Kanon is just a delusion by Shannon, then how does this red truth work?
A wordplay on the word "people"?

I thought there was something like "people" = "personality," while "human" = "actual human bodies."

Either way, it's not that strange to consider a separate personality like "Kanon" a different "person" than Shannon.

[arson88]

Kyrie did not waste all her bullets, she almost shot Eva at the 2nd round. Anyway, Kyrie have to bash Jessica's head since it was too close for her to kill anyone with a gun.

Rudolf could not do anything even though Kyrie killed Battler early because he still need her to finish up the "hunt".

At episode 02, Kanon attended Jessica's school as her boyfriend but is Shannon or aka EP07 Yasu still attending school just like Jessica?

if Kanon and Shannon are imaginary, 2 master keys will be owned by only one people, right?

At episode 07, it was implied that if Will question Kanon and Shannon together it means checkmate for him since Shannon went into BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) mode and his internal monologue states that his instinct warns him of the incoming checkmate. Is it referring to us readers that Kanon/Shannon is a bad idea by the readers and it is a form of warning by Will?

[Cao Ni Ma]

If this was really a chess analogy, Shannon bringing forward Kanon wouldn't be a checkmate as a player cant place himself into a check position. Now maybe him pushing Shannon wasn't really a check but made it so that the only possible move Shannon could do led to a check in which case the game would be called a draw and end right there.

e-I think I misread you, do you think that chain of logic Will started meant a checkmate against him or against Shannon?

[Misuzu]

Good to be back to posting, at least for a little while!

Most people seem pretty convinced now that Shannon's chest is fake, either because of Lion or because they think Shannon is able to disguise herself as Kanon. I was pretty convinced too, once it seemed clear that Shannon was Yasu, but this bit has been gnawing at me, so I figured I'd post it, even though it's something small.

Spoiler:

Now, I realize that this is all part of the story Yasu is telling, and that imagining Battler and a telephone pile discussing the size of her boobies wouldn't be the weirdest thing she's done. But, since she's supposed to be think that she's 10 years old here, it feels very off to me. There'd be no reason for her to pad her chest at this point in the story, since presumably, most 10 year old girls in 1980 would be pretty flat. It actually seems to fit with her actually being 13 and looking more developed then she'd be expected to.

I realize this is a silly thing to devote so much time to, and I feel a little goofy now that I've posted it. But, the reasons why Shannon might have an actual chest while Lion doesn't are pretty interesting, especially given the red guts scene near the end.

Originally Posted by witchfan

I'll imagine he did. It's not uncommon for people who've suffered so much to come up with their own interpretation of reality, especially when deep regret is involved. But really, what happened then is as much a catbox as Rokkenjima. Unless we get some reds or someone 'opens' it, the truth is anyone's guess.

I think it was interesting that they used that event to explain Nanjo's bond to Kinzo, but didn't touch on Genji. It seems totally possible that he was there, was saved/spared by Kinzo, and would be able to tell the real truth of the event.

[Yopee]

Originally Posted by arson88

Kyrie did not waste all her bullets, she almost shot Eva at the 2nd round. Anyway, Kyrie have to bash Jessica's head since it was too close for her to kill anyone with a gun.

I meant Kyrie wasted all the bullets in her winchester's magazine/clip/whatever it is you call those five bullets loaded in the gun. She didn't have time to reload her gun while dealing with Jessica. That's why she had to resort to bashing Jessica.
Wouldn't make sense to end a fight by taking your time to bash someone in rather than popping a cap in them real quick.

[arson88]

it is safe to assume that she reloaded her gun [5 bullets] before meeting Jessica. The 1st shot missed and Kyrie doesn't want to mess up by reloading the gun via lever action. The gun can store 5 bullets at a time but can not shoot 5 rounds continuously without reloading one bullet at a time via lever action.

@Cao Ni Ma, i don't know who the check is directed to but isn't a stale mate in that situation a clear indication or proof of ShKanon? It sounds like a troll by the author...

[Cao Ni Ma]

What I think is that there might (big might) be a possibility that she could have brought Kanon with her but if that happened then why would it lead to a checkmate? The scene made it seem like it was Will that was warning Shannon not to do it, but looking it in reverse it would have crushed Will's initial beliefs if it was actually him that got placed in check with such a move.

[Kurome]

Just finished it and although it seems like answering many questions through Shkannon/Yasu it does not explain while Kanon and Shannon are treated as different people aswell.

Maria identifies people through their behaviour so thinking Yasu is beatrice/shannon/kannon is easily explained for her but Jessica and George? They could not fall in love with the same person without noticing right? A possible explanation might be the love scenes between the couples to be illusions or only the Shannon scenes being true....