Log Horizon S2 - Episode 3 Discussion / Poll

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by James Rye

If they die so often shouldn't they forget more and more about their old lives till only their past in this new world exists? I would be scared as heck to forget my family and friends on earth. Even if I could never get to see them again, forgetting about them would be much scarier than being sad to not be together with them.

"You'll lose your souls, over and over again..."

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by James Rye

If they die so often shouldn't they forget more and more about their old lives till only their past in this new world exists? I would be scared as heck to forget my family and friends on earth. Even if I could never get to see them again, forgetting about them would be much scarier than being sad to not be together with them.

It would take a long, long, time.

Each time they die they only lose a miniscule amount of memories.

Its like a street name or something.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by James Rye

If they die so often shouldn't they forget more and more about their old lives till only their past in this new world exists? I would be scared as heck to forget my family and friends on earth. Even if I could never get to see them again, forgetting about them would be much scarier than being sad to not be together with them.

william and the other raiding guild doesn't care much about it. Crusty said it himself that the memory disappearance is so small that it turn irrelevant but if you die again and again then maybe.

But the scary part of dying is from what William said. You will face yourself and will feel your weakness and pettiness and all your negative feelings or traits. its hard to explain it to shiroe who hasn't experience it yet.

its more like mental scar than the threat of loosing memory.

[Benigmatica]

Originally Posted by White Manju Bun

"Data gets reused all the time." THIS! Seriously working on a game myself, I wish more people understood this.

Also please don't tell me I'm the only one who wants one of these...

At least it's hand-made!

In any case, I wanna see Akatsuki take on that intruder next week!

[Raviel]

Originally Posted by James Rye

If they die so often shouldn't they forget more and more about their old lives till only their past in this new world exists? I would be scared as heck to forget my family and friends on earth. Even if I could never get to see them again, forgetting about them would be much scarier than being sad to not be together with them.

Based on everything we know, the memory loss is so negligible that most people might not even realize they forgot something. For the moment it doesn't seem to be a problem for the raiding party.

The more pressing problem for people who raid a lot in the current ET is the actual feeling of dying, they still feel everything and then they have to deal with respawning and inevitably reflecting on just how much dying sucks.

This ep has made me realize I'm probably like Akatsuki when I play MMOs (read: the average player who doesn't particularly stand out and might go on a raid or two but not much else )

[Village Idiot]

Originally Posted by Raviel

Based on everything we know, the memory loss is so negligible that most people might not even realize they forgot something. For the moment it doesn't seem to be a problem for the raiding party.

The more pressing problem for people who raid a lot in the current ET is the actual feeling of dying, they still feel everything and then they have to deal with respawning and inevitably reflecting on just how much dying sucks.

This ep has made me realize I'm probably like Akatsuki when I play MMOs (read: the average player who doesn't particularly stand out and might go on a raid or two but not much else )

I main Healer and Tank because its so easy to find groups.

Just announce you're a tank/healer LFG and you'll get 10+ tells.

[BigFire]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

The raid explanation is done well... The fatigue of the members are also pictured well
This episode sparks your interest to play online games again (those memories when you raid a dungeon and wiped out by raid boss)
and we got more depth about William's personality and thinking

At the end, we know more about skills and what Akatsuki is aiming for

Next episode might be more emotional than action.. although I really want to see how the raid is going to end

As I was watching this episode, I was also tanking Heroic Iron Juggernaut in World of Warcraft.

[BigFire]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Because when people say they take an entire month to clear a Raid, it also includes repeated attempts.

For example, say a Raid Instance has 8 bosses in total. In the first week you've only manage to clear 3/8 of them, the Instance restarts and you do it all over again, but this time your Raid party is prepared for it, the first two bosses go down relatively easily while the third still requires getting used to. Then you hit another wall with the next two bosses and burn up the entire week like this.

You repeat the cycle until you beat the final boss then you cleared the Raid.

Over time your Guild well starts get better at it until you can clear the whole thing in one or two session. But until then it's a long way to the top if you want to Raid



That's because even after clearing it the first time, it doesn't mean your guild can breeze passed the content with little difficulty. In general most guild would still continue to fail to clear in under a week for a long time.

(Don't forget, you have to teach the new guys the ropes)

There are two state of completing an raid encounter. There's progression where the guild is still learning the encounter (Shiroe's Raid is definitely in this category. They are the first in the world to try this, so there's no one to exchange notes with). The other state is farming. That is, the guild is sufficiently good at clearing the content that they can do it reliably. During the downtime, some of the crafters in the raid mentioned that they would have to run old contents to get some more materials, that's the farming state of raiding.

[Esclair]

Do they even make modern raids that long anymore?

[Flower]

I rather enjoyed the ep, but also never having done any multiplayer online games first hand (though I hear about them plenty from others) I was unable to appreciate the accuracy of the portrayal of the raid. I will take other poster's word for its excellence.

On a different level I wonder what Shiroe is struggling with at the moment? Was it why they can't seem to find the other bosses that should be around? Or that they can't even find the clues or paths leading to the bosses? These sorts of things especially begin to matter if they are short on supplies.

Once again Naotsugu provides interesting insights into what makes Shiroe operate the way he does. It was interesting to see how Tetras reacted to Naotsugu's musings, though, and made me wonder if Tetras might be a lot younger IRL....

[Ickarium]

They killed two bosses and Shiroe said there were probably around four more.

In WoW, Firelands had seven bosses and Siege of Orgrimmar had 14.

Time-wise, first kill of Firelands was 20 days later, and they had some time on the PTR to learn the fights a bit.

So yeah, raids are still that big. Not exactly the same, as there are systemic differences, but still.

[Mubyoshi]

I must say, I really like the seiyuu for Tetra.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Esclair

Do they even make modern raids that long anymore?

I think our first kill of Nefarian in BWD after the expansion came out was after 60+ wipes and I don't even remember over how many weeks.

Pre-nerf of course, this was when he was the final boss available in early days of Cata.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by aohige

I think our first kill of Nefarian in BWD after the expansion came out was after 60+ wipes and I don't even remember over how many weeks.

Pre-nerf of course, this was when he was the final boss available in early days of Cata.

Gee, that reminds me of vanilla WoW. BWL had Vaelastrasz the Corrupt as a second boss. While Razorgore was a crazy benny hill style of encounter, Vael was simply a nightmare considering the very strict DPS race along with a tight tank rotation and subsequent death toll that was unavoidable. We were scratching our heads considering how the first 2 encounters were nothing alike, and we wondered how many different raid boss we would be able to deal with within the instance time limit... so many weeks for the sake of progression

Really, this episode hit home quite a lot for me: for High end content guilds, things like this can be a routine, but it is still quite time consuming, even for guilds that can clear a new dungeon in a matter of days.
I suspect Shiroe's raid might encounter a "gimmick" type of raid boss at some point, forcing them to do shit stuff like running to switch/safe zone tile to avoid instant wipe and the likes (some might remember original naxxramas with Heigan dance )

But really, Demikas will be beyond a thorn in the sides... if things go the way how it usually do for MMO, he will probably trigger raid wipe by himself... nothing worse than general wipe because of someone's retardation/stubborn antics instead of poor gear.

[whitecloud]

I dont think i could imagine doing first person raid content, especially with memory at stake, how about you guys?

If you are there will you guys just lounge around like those akiba guys or keep doing high end raid, just in case there is clue to discover the truth about the world...

Or maybe just travel / explore the world like kanami

[Tenzen12]

I never attended raid, because I was always noob regardless of my effort (that's why I finaly gave up on MMORPGs that required cooperation, so I can't realy say much about LH portrait of game mechanics

But if there is something I can say about this episode it would be that I stoped care about minor details like Naotsugu being in official couple or Tetra being possibly GIRL. I am going ship them regardless.

[Gundamx]

it make me remember FFXI AV boss
(Final fantasy XI Absolute Virtue boss)

he destroy every ls(guild) that dare to challenge him,
in the end, top guild gather together to challenge him
and wasted more the 24 real life hour to try to kill him and failed

not failed and try again but fighting for 24h straight

in the end, game developer nerf the boss and make fight length just 2h, if you failed to kill him then the fight will end.
also, they told people how to kill him

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

I dont think i could imagine doing first person raid content, especially with memory at stake, how about you guys?

If you are there will you guys just lounge around like those akiba guys or keep doing high end raid, just in case there is clue to discover the truth about the world...

Or maybe just travel / explore the world like kanami

I, for one, will first see whether I was really needed for the raid or not. I certainly don't want to sacrifice my memory for nothing. So, if Shiroe or someone from his side asks me to join his raid because they indeed need my skill in the level I am for a greater goal, I'll jump on his party without a second thought (knowing that each death can only wipe some really minor memory). Why? Well, like they say "you gotta live your life" and if I'm living in an MMORPG and have the ability to respawn with only (very) minor memory to pay, I'm definitely gonna use it to beat boss-monsters, gain more experience, getting some rare items and go on adventure with my guild/friends and such. And if the raid is well-planned and it's to achieve a greater goal that will benefit people and not just mere suicide mission then why not?

[Hmm....]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

I dont think i could imagine doing first person raid content, especially with memory at stake, how about you guys?

If you are there will you guys just lounge around like those akiba guys or keep doing high end raid, just in case there is clue to discover the truth about the world...

Or maybe just travel / explore the world like kanami

If you are MMORPG nerd who has no life to begin with, why not
Actually for them, trapping in Elder tale doing raid 24/7 might be a dream come true

[blakraven66]

When he was saying a raid took months, did he mean real world time or Elder Tale time? I remember that Shiroe discovered time moves faster in Elder Tale than the real world...