2012-11-13, 21:14 | Link #461 | ||
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
Cover fire doesn't work well because you are better off just shooting an alien you see rather than going into overwatch. Overwatch carries an accuracy penalty, so if you can shoot the alien then just shoot. And further, Sprinter is TOO GOOD a skill. I can't do without it, and frankly it is the main reason I use Offensive Supports. Losing that skill isn't worth it. Quote:
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Last edited by Vallen Chaos Valiant; 2012-11-13 at 21:29. |
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2012-11-13, 23:07 | Link #462 |
Bearly Legal
Join Date: Jun 2004
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I normally use a 2 assault, 2 support, 1 heavy, 1 sniper team.
Support build is Sprinter (the added mobility means you can reach full cover better than anyone else) Medic ( 6x 10 hp heal at endgame helps more than the extra smoke grenade for me, especially in long fights) Rifle Suppression (they are my main suppressor instead of heavy which is focused on demolition of cover or AoE dmg) Dense Smoke (i use smoke grenade as a uh-oh skill, give whoever that's underfire the extra def to survive) Savior ( extra heal, Sentinel is nice but not critical enough for the upgrade since Support can only use Plasma Rifle at most and overwatch can't crit) I don't know about Dense Smoke triggering grenade atleast so far i havent seen it happen. I do know they have a tendency to toss it when they can hit 2 target at once but i rarely keep people close enough for that and Mutons, Heavy Floaters and Muton Elite are usually high on the KOS priority list.
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2012-11-13, 23:11 | Link #463 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
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2012-11-14, 00:55 | Link #464 |
lost in wonder forever...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: edge of my dream in the land of twilight...ZzzZzZ
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I've never actually seen the enemy throw a grenade at a single unit in full cover, smoke, or full cover + smoke. How can hit chance be zero for the aliens when they got such high accuracy to begin with and I thought max cover is only 40 and can't go any higher. What level difficulty does this tactic appear on?
The only time aliens throw grenades is when my soldiers are clustered too close to each other.
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2012-11-14, 01:54 | Link #465 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
(Hunker Down doubles your Cover bonus, so if you are in low cover you get +20 and +40 with high cover.) And that's not counting telekinetic field's +40.
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2012-11-14, 02:29 | Link #466 |
Bearly Legal
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Makes sense why I don't see that happen since I rarely stack that much DEF modifier.
On my current classic playthrough, I only hunker down if it's not in Full Cover or I know he's going to be focused on by multiple target. And Dense Smoke grenade are reserved for bad situation with no Full Covers around. Also not using Ghost Armor yet. Still unsure if i even want to cause it felt a bit too OP compare to others.
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2012-11-14, 14:30 | Link #468 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Quote:
When I went back to Archangel armour, I literally wiped the floor with them by striking first. Which gives +20 defence AND elevation and accuracy bonuses. Equipping an Assault trooper + Archangel Armour + flight + alloy cannon + rapid fire + scope = deadly mid-range assault trooper. |
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2012-11-14, 14:37 | Link #469 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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How does Archangel help you strike first?
I use Ghost Armour for the +100% crit. And anyway it is never a good idea to trade blows against aliens on higher difficulties. Either charge in and kill them immediately, or back off and let them walk into a trap. Staying still and fight is always bad.
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2012-11-14, 15:21 | Link #470 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Quote:
With ghost armour, you run the risk of getting too close which leads to more aliens and then you find yourself in a jam. Plus you can't hit the aliens even with cloak and such. 100% is useless unless your guaranteed a hit. And then if you try to wait for the aliens to come closer, they still can hit you even with the higher defence. I was pissed off when a muton across the map scored a direct critical hit on my support that had +40 defence. The rest of my guys fell after. None of them could score a hit and the closer they tried getting, the more aliens that appeared. |
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2012-11-14, 17:56 | Link #471 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
You are not suppose to play a sniping game against high difficulty enemies, as they will always win in accuracy. You are meant to arrange your soldiers so that when the alien exit the doorway or turned the corner, your troops are at 80+% chance to hit with overwatch. Never assume the alien would miss. The best defence is to never let them fire a single shot.
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2012-11-14, 23:56 | Link #472 | |
Osana-Najimi Shipper
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
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What VCV said. You aren't going to win a 'fair' firefight against the enemy in impossible. Either you get up close and personal so you have high accuracy, or have one scout ahead, and if they run into the enemy the scout dashes back in range of your entire team's overwatch fire.
And for first strike purposes, +2 mov and essentially it being a one-shit kill with stealth is more useful than +20 aim from higher elevation. Finally, sometimes the computer doesn't really give a damn and just send you wave after wave of enemies, REGARDLESS of what you do. Apart from the one I mentioned before, another was when an abductor (was it called that?) ship landed and the first group I met were 2 Outsiders (and they weren't even in the bridge!)... who proceeded to call Heavy Floater, Heavy Floater, then Sectopod groups one turn after the other without me advancing even one step. Quote:
Field Medic - I dunno about other people, but in my games the enemies are grenade happy, of which smoke grenades don't do anything against (and I rarely use smoke grenades in the first place, so it's not even me taking dense upgrade). Like AI is smart in that they'll blow away your cover first with nades then shoot your flanked guy up if given the chance. Or sometimes, they just lob 3 grenades in a row against your guy in indestructible cover lol. XD And in that case, I'd rather get more heals to negate nade damage and on the off chance save someone by stabilizing. Also very darn useful on the longer missions; I dunno what I'd do without field medic in the story missions/battleship ufo crash stages when you're up against 15+ total enemies IIRC Rifle Suppression - Revive kinda sucks tbh, as you're banking on someone to be injured rather than killed for you to even start using the skill. Suppression on supports are awesome because they lack firepower in the first place (so better to suppress than take a risk at a low hit chance shot) and that rifles have more ammo than heavy weapons (so they can sustain suppression longer than heavies). And guess what? You'd be using this skill every turn when you can't outright kill the target. Like Heat Ammo for Heavies, Squad Sight for Snipers, and Rapid Fire for Assaults, this IMO is THE class's defining skill (and not healing or smoke grenades). Dense Smoke - more like an 'oh shit' skill. If my support is on last turn and multiple enemies can hit a flanked unit of mine (so suppression is useless), then I'd throw this. The extra +20def is not much, but IMO better than +10 WIL and +10 crit chance. If it was +10 AIM instead though, I'd be all over Combat Drugs, but alas.... Savior - I found that my Sentinel support in my first playthrough has his 2nd shot triggered very infrequently, even with covering fire. And with my support going suppression very frequently, and Sentinel don't work with suppression, and I took field medic + sprinter, this is a no brainer.
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2012-11-15, 00:57 | Link #473 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
Good news... Combat Drugs doesn't give you +10 aim, it gives you +20 aim. It doesn't tell you in the skill description, but it's there when you used it when checking your soldier's bonuses with the F1 key. So time to be all over combat drugs I guess? (The link said that there is unconfirmed reports that Combat Drugs doesn't give you any defence bonus at all. It is hard to test because you can't see the alien's chance to hit.)
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Last edited by Vallen Chaos Valiant; 2012-11-15 at 03:06. |
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2012-11-15, 05:12 | Link #474 |
lost in wonder forever...
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: edge of my dream in the land of twilight...ZzzZzZ
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Aww man, now I got to get rid of my supports and train a new batch...dang it. Is this confirmed for reals because some of the guys on that forum are saying it's a typo and he's pretty confident it doesn't give Aim bonus.
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2012-11-15, 10:44 | Link #475 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
And the Heavy STILL gets to keep the +20 defense from the smoke grenade even though the game doesn't tell you. He was under low cover with ghost armour, giving him 20+20 defence. With Combat Drugs his defence is 60, so there is definite +20 defence from the smoke.
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2012-11-15, 11:26 | Link #476 | ||
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Quote:
I had a support run up and see what was up then pulled back. The enemy then started moving in and despite the fact that my entire team was in overwatch + cover they couldn't hit the side of a barn. As a result the enemy from long range ended up sniping and killing all of my guys regardless. The ghost armour was literally useless. When i tried fighting back with cloak it was useless because even up close they couldn't land a freakin shot. I ran the same scenario with Archangel armour and due to the +20 aim they were able to kill them through overwatch and such. Quote:
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2012-11-15, 11:37 | Link #477 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
NEVER let your enemy hit you from long range. Angle your troops so that they can't see you at all until they got close. Don't let them snipe. NEVER let them snipe. They are more accurate than you. The point of trapping them isn't just to kill them by overwatch, but that you would likely have an entire turn to shoot them with rockets, double tap sniping, etc.
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2012-11-15, 12:38 | Link #478 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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Quote:
My guys are all in cover and even if they're behind a door the AI is still able to hit them. With Heavy Floaters it's pretty irrelevant because they can go anywhere they want and still snipe you anyways. |
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2012-11-15, 13:02 | Link #479 |
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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What VCV is basically saying is that your men should be positioned that the enemy can't see you at all. Don't put your men in corners, put them a tile behind or something. Better yet, retreat to a position further away and prepare an overwatch killzone. You should not be able to see your enemy, which by the same token they won't be able to see you, which allows you to dictate when and how to engage the enemy. Concealment is better than cover on Impossible.
Until you get Titan Armor on Captains armed with Plasma Weapons duking it out in a straight firefight on Impossible is an exercise in pain and misery: Don't. Cover is unreliable on Impossible, and thus you should never end your turn with your men still in view of the enemy.
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2012-11-15, 13:05 | Link #480 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
What you do is shown in the pic; stay at the green circles and wait for the aliens to march through the door. Don't go near the red crosses as you would die.
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Tags |
science fiction, turn-based strategy |
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