Claymore Chapter 87

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by tenken627

The month of December is a short month of work in most countries around the world due to Xmas/New Years.

Yagi and his assistants probably only worked maybe 2-3 weeks during the month?

Last year's Chapter that came out in January was also only 23 pages (Chapter 76) instead of the usual 32-33 pages.





Happy New Years guys!

And wtf happened in Chapter 87?!?!?

I'm guessing ZC = Zombie Crew?

We got April 1st issue several months early, I think. I think, it is the first time yagi has made me sweatdrop a bit. o_o; Anyway, I think ZACS = Zombie Amazon Claymore Strippers. depending on how you truncate it.

[dunames]

i dont think the Zombie Claymore were targeting any ABs or Easley at all. from what little info we get about them, they were the one thats beign destroying all the towns in the South. What better way to defeat an enemies too stronger for u to fight head on??? i see the ORG using the zombie claymores to destroy the town and the human to starve Easley and his ABs army to force their hand. if they remain in the South, they will surely starve to death. if they go to the West, a force confortation between Easley and Rifus would be to teh best interest for the ORG since it give them a chance to wipe out both Easley and Rifus...assuming Alicia and Beth is in top condition. Easley going to the East for food will force him into confrontation with the ORG and without fully knowly Alicia power, he cant risk it at all. 7 years have also past so teh ORG can also already hve a couple pair of Alicia/Beth class claymore already nearly complete as well. Presy being traveling with Raki for a couple of years already too and with her power fully suppress, he have no way to contact her at all. If anything, Easley being runnign all over teh place tryign to fight off all these zombies from wiping out his food source and force him to take action he dont want too and hes also probably tryign to find his trump card who elope with Raki for the past few years. after years of fighting wave after wave of undead and having ur only desciple runoff takign with him ur trump card and leaving behind on method to get in touch with them....any1 will be pretty damn piss and wore down.

[Ryuken]

Originally Posted by dunames

i dont think the Zombie Claymore were targeting any ABs or Easley at all.

Or any claymore for that matter.

Makes me think, why did it ignore Dietrich?

[Wiggle wyrm]

I kind of doubt that the Organization sent the ZC’s to starve Isley out into the open. While we don’t even know how much food an Abysmal needs, I don’t think they need a great deal. The only AB with insatiable hunger seems to be Priscilla. As such, starving him out would take a lot of time, time Isley could use to com up with crazy plots against the Organization.

In the end, starving Isley by wiping out all the towns in the south would be time consuming, wasteful and risky, not to mention pointless if Isley could just defeat the ZC’s

Given Isley’s appearance, mental instability and the way he’s conserving his energy; the only conclusion I can come up with is that the ZC’s are indeed capable of defeating Isley. I’m not sure how, but they seem to slowly grinding him down.

As to why the towns in the south are being destroyed, my personal opinion is that while the ZC’s are controllable to an extent, they still need to eat an AB’s diet. The Organization doesn’t care, just as long as their forces don’t get eaten.

[FateAnomaly]

Here is my theory:
The zombie claymores are from the org and controlled by a variation of the soul link ability. Zombified claymores are easier to control perhaps. Thats also why the org are sending the claymores on suicide missions recently. They no longer need smartass claymores and it creates more material for zombie claymores. The zombification process involves another type of flesh that is similar but not the same as Yoma flesh. In battle, they will do a form of "awakening".

Isley attacked Helen and Deneve because he thinks the org send them. He will focus on the zombies when they come.

I am undecided on whether zombies are after Isley, the humans or both. It seems that the chance that they are after humans seems to be higher though. Isley is probably trying to protect them. Perhaps because the south is Priscilla homeland.

[SuperiorX]

hmmmmmm these chicks must be at least partialy related to Miata and most likey were specificly created to hunt Easley i now think that Miata to was specificly created to locate and kill Galatea as they seem to use some other method of locating their targets if i recall Miata used a diff method to located Gtea.

and the sneefing part is peculiar as they may be only intrested in eating humies if you remember when OPhilia tried a bit of Clare she found the taste of it bad but was extremly intrested in having some guts so these things can tell the difference.

[Sleepy Speculator]

I'll stick with what i said before it seems IMO, that the towns are dissappearing due to battles with Isley there's no need for Isley to protect humans, beyond them being his food supply and also no need for them to eat humans, as releasing that sort of force in your own lands would then require claymore hunting teams to get rid of them. This has been happening for quite some time and it seems Isley is not on form anymore.

Look at the fight between Helen and Isley, the town's gone and the ZC's haven't even got there yet.

If it were the Dod's or whatever i'm pretty sure the org would've moved some forces as a defence. Also Dietrich has no intention/orders to fight them yet roughly knows what they are/where they come from, and they also in turn ignore Dietrich. The big question is whether or not Helen and Deneve will be so lucky. I'd say the ZC's are like regular Ab strength, they have strength in numbers and co-ordination.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

I think the notion of starving Isley out is flawed. You destroy all the towns in the south and he'll just move to the west or east. Heck that kind of strategy might even get Isley and Riful to team up if you start destroying towns in the west.

[zato_1one]

What if the war was already over. But the reason that the org still actively research their experiment is because the one who win the war wasn't mankind.

[chibamonster]

I think something like that is definitely possible zato_1one. I get a feeling that the organization may not be the greatest evil in the story, though they certainly still do evil things. I also thought they might have been doing research not just to win a war, but to gain relative immortality. That or to cure a problem they made before...

[clarakiss~]

helen and deneve will probably overwhelm isley a bit when the two start attacking him together but he seems to be holding back (like saving his energy for what's approaching).

isley, helen and deneve will have to put their differences aside and team up if they want to get out of this alive w/ isley being unstable for some reason.

[dunames]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

I think the notion of starving Isley out is flawed. You destroy all the towns in the south and he'll just move to the west or east. Heck that kind of strategy might even get Isley and Riful to team up if you start destroying towns in the west.

If the ORG want to get rid fo Easley and or Rifus, thats the only way they can given what we know so far. u got to keep in mind that even if they 100% completed Alicia+Beth and have a couple pair of them rdy to fight at near 100% as well. 7 years did came to past and we kind of get a glimp of Alicia near complete power right b4 the 7 years jump and we also know of her major weakness. Alicia awaken and fight while Beth remain focus and keep Alicia sane. this is not a reliable weapon to be use on an offensive mission like going deep into Easley or Rifus territory and fight. any attack from a near by ABs can break Beth concentration and send Alicia goign wild. cause of this major weakness, u cant really send them into battle while at eh same time, leave their side and back unguarded.

focus atkign the South will surely force Easley to eventually make a move either to the West or to the East. After all these 7 long years, if Easley decided to directly atking the ORG head on, hell just run into Alicia+Beth or possibly a wall of Alicia+Beth class claymores. worst case, Easley went west and magically team up with Rifus, the ORG r in better position to fight the Rifus+Easley duo if teh south was wipe out. without food in teh South and North there wont be any big ABs army station there. what this mean is that instead of the ORG facing a 2 front west+south war, they will only have to worry about the West. to move a sizeable AB force to teh North or South and atk form there, u gonna hve to move soem human as well to keep the ABs fully power and such a large movement of force can easily be detected and the human part fo it gonna slow the ABs down. another reason is, if they can get teh AOs to atk teh east, then they dont have to send out Alicia and Beth. Beth can safely stay within the safety fo teh ORG and keep Alicia sane while she kick ass. if they have other pairs of Alicia+Beth class claymore, then the east is pretty well defended.

now if the zombies claymore were created by teh ORG and the ORG were able to reanimiatet eh dead claymore and ABs body as controllable undead weapons that retain it claymore and ABs fighting power, then teh next step would to be gettign their hand on a AOs and start running test with it. sending out the undead to force an AO to atk the ORG head on where Alicia and Beth type claymores can fight at its best and safest, is the best way to go. 7 years may seem lieka long time to set a plan in motion but u hae to keep in mind that the ORG r goign at eh experienment for over a hundred years. if they already spent hundreds of year onthis experienment, a another 10 years wait to try to finalize the weapon is nothign to them.

keep in mind that the zombie seen to either target a certain smell or is keying on a certain energy signature. having a programed set of this zombies but AO class and havign them seek out DoD and it warrior is much more safer then sendign out alicia+beth type claymore or AOs like Easley who can be persuave to even join up with teh enemies if the payment is good enough.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

That's a pretty bold statement to say something is the only way; have any facts to substantiate your claims? In fact, there has already been another method of getting rid of Isley provided, uses some of the same resources, that you ignore. It's been previously speculated that the ZACS have been used as a constant barrage on Isley to drain him of energy, making it possible for Riful or something else to swoop down on him, at which point Alicia would take on the survivor. To me, it seems far more likely than the org taking 7 long years to remove towns in the south to get rid of Isley.

As for Alicia, it would be a disapointing battle, Isley or Riful would totally own her. She's a failed experiment, a flawed creature, with a vulnarability so easily and so big that it is begging to be exploited. Isley moves to the East and the org will need something other than Alicia to stop him. I really don't see why people think that Alicia is going to be this new force greater than an Abyssal? She symbolizes both the Orgs arrogance and short sightedness. The org has Alicia, what they really want is Clare, when it comes to finding a solution to the DoD. As for Beth staying far away, where does that come from? When Alicia fought the awakened beings, Beth was close by. Would there be a reason that the org would be willing tol lose their second biggest defense back then, and all the sudden have smarten up? it seems that Beth needs to be within a certain nearby range for the soul link to work. Other pairs of Alicias & Beths Claymores? This isn't the NGE Movie where Asuka goes berserk. Twins don't grow on trees. It also took years of training to make Alicia powrful enough, as demonstrated when she watched Riful.

to me it makes more sense for a constant barrage of ZACS on Isley, than for them to slowly starve him, so slow it takes over seven years. Why would they attack the town he is in too? Wouldn't it be simpler to have a pair of ZACS go to every town except the one he is in and kill every single human? It certainly wouldn't take 7 years. :d

[Korinov]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

As for Alicia, it would be a disapointing battle, Isley or Riful would totally own her. She's a failed experiment, a flawed creature, with a vulnarability so easily and so big that it is begging to be exploited. Isley moves to the East and the org will need something other than Alicia to stop him. I really don't see why people think that Alicia is going to be this new force greater than an Abyssal? She symbolizes both the Orgs arrogance and short sightedness. The org has Alicia, what they really want is Clare, when it comes to finding a solution to the DoD. As for Beth staying far away, where does that come from? When Alicia fought the awakened beings, Beth was close by. Would there be a reason that the org would be willing their second biggest defense back then, and all the sudden have smarten up? it seems that Beth needs to be within a certain nearby range for the soul link to work. Other pairs of Alicias & Beths Claymores? This isn't the NGE Movie where Asuka goes berserk. Twins don't grow on trees. It also took years of training to make Alicia powrful enough, as demonstrated when she watched Riful.

None of us have seen the twins since the 7-years skip, so maybe some of your statements are also quite risky. Miria asked Audrey very clearly if "Alicia had been completed". We don't know what "complete" means about Alicia, the only thing we can do is to make assumptions depending on each one's personal opinion about Alicia's potential. What if that "nearby range" is not so small now, and Alicia can fight where she needs having Beth sitting on a chair in the Org's headquarters? Of course, mere crazy theories.

The only thing I'm seeing with last chapters is that Isley sacrificed all his army (including Rigardo) to 'conquer' the southern lands by defeating Luciella, just relying in his secret card: Priscilla. And of course, now that Priscilla has left his side, he's paying the consequences of his ambition.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by Korinov

None of us have seen the twins since the 7-years skip, so maybe some of your statements are also quite risky. Miria asked Audrey very clearly if "Alicia had been completed". We don't know what "complete" means about Alicia, the only thing we can do is to make assumptions depending on each one's personal opinion about Alicia's potential. What if that "nearby range" is not so small now, and Alicia can fight where she needs having Beth sitting on a chair in the Org's headquarters? Of course, mere crazy theories.

The only thing I'm seeing with last chapters is that Isley sacrificed all his army (including Rigardo) to 'conquer' the southern lands by defeating Luciella, just relying in his secret card: Priscilla. And of course, now that Priscilla has left his side, he's paying the consequences of his ambition.

It seems a bit unlikely to me for several reason. First off, a great distance would mean that the thought would have to travel at the speed of light to avoid ther being any lag. Also, what exactly is a Soul Link? If it is two souls, auras, of two different people connecting, then those two auras would have to stretch a long distance to connect and become one. That would probably require a lot of energy to do and maintain. That is unless there is another explanation of what a soul link is. I'm mostly thinking about the type of aura manipulation I'm more used to reading or seeing about in manga, anime and fiction. It might not be the right one, but if someone is going to theorize tha Alicia is one place, and Beth is miles away, then they should include how instantanious communication and how the soul link works at that range as part of their theory. The close range soul link is easier to explain. and has less holes logically that need to be addressed before it becomes a valid theory.

[MisterJB]

A big problem with Alicia is that we don't know how fast she is. She is really fast we know that but would she be fast enough to protect Beth from Isley's speed and arrows or Riful's tentacles?

And what would happen if during soul-link Beth is killed or wounded?
Would Alicia come back to normal or would she become an AO?

[Korinov]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

It seems a bit unlikely to me for several reason. First off, a great distance would mean that the thought would have to travel at the speed of light to avoid ther being any lag. Also, what exactly is a Soul Link? If it is two souls, auras, of two different people connecting, then those two auras would have to stretch a long distance to connect and become one. That would probably require a lot of energy to do and maintain. That is unless there is another explanation of what a soul link is. I'm mostly thinking about the type of aura manipulation I'm more used to reading or seeing about in manga, anime and fiction. It might not be the right one, but if someone is going to theorize tha Alicia is one place, and Beth is miles away, then they should include how instantanious communication and how the soul link works at that range as part of their theory. The close range soul link is easier to explain. and has less holes logically that need to be addressed before it becomes a valid theory.

Yup, I thought about that stuff too. Who knows, they could incorporate some kind of dish antenna to Alicia's armor. If Nnoitra could, why not them?

Nah, in fact I truly believe that Alicia's experiment will end up as a completely failure. If the Org knew about half-awakenings and its possibilities, maybe they would have trashed the twins away quite a time ago. But they don't know... thank Rubel for that.

A fully awakened Alicia (both body & mind) wiping out the MiB's headquarters in revenge for turning her a puppet would also be nice

[Gangsta Spanksta]

There is another problem with the Alicia & Beth combo. We know that there are yoki manipulators out there that have a firm grasp on it. Now so far we mentioned taking out Beth, but that may not even be necessary, even in the unlikely event that Beth is in a bunker miles away, if there is a Claymore, Awakened Being that can somehow block the signal, create some sort of energy barrier around itself and Alicia, then that is all it would take for Alicia & Beth to be a failure.

Anyway, I think it has been perfectly setup for Alicia to Fail. Besides Dietrich (impressive) and Rene (seems somewhat competent) the new generation of Claymores seems to be a bit disappointing. This is old stuff, but it seems the org has been neglectful with them, that they have been putting all their eggs in the Alicia and Beth basket. Add to that the blatant flaw of Alicia, then it is setup for failure. It would make a good scene to have Riful, or even the ghosts take on Alicia, the MIBs standing next to Beth, confident and smirking, and then all the sudden someone takes out Beth, after having figured it out.

[Sleepy Speculator]

I think if Beth buys it during a soul link then half of the personality, the human half is lost and Alicia would be completely gone, which is why when she was deployed they brought Galatea along, anything gets too close and Galatea would be expected to stop it long enough for Alicia to kill it. I certainly don't think she was invited along to share some plot elements for no reason.

As to why Miria asked Audrey, i'd say it's purely because she didn't know. She theorised that the org kept numbers 1-5 at org HQ for defense purposes despite the fact Clare had killed #4 Ophelia and didn't bother telling anyone. (though i wouldn't be surprised if there was something more to that)

The interesting side note is that the current #3 Audrey is often partnered with #5 Rachel and would be the claymore expected to act as a bodyguard and yet it seems she's not exactly on par with that role.

I did speculate a long time ago on how the ghosts would combat Alicia, and i have to admit they got a big advantage in being able to field a potential 4-5 yoki manipulators. In theory a competent manipulator could keep the yoki flows below their limit preventing Alicia from using awakening and forcing a fight in claymore form. I could imagine the mib's scratching their heads at that...

[Ancient Soul]

Why Beth must be at a distance or another from Alicia...when she can easily stay on her back?

I think that Alicia and Beth are already half-merged...like Rafaela and Luciella!

That is the logical step of the soul-link experiment.Eliminate the weakness of the experiment by itself.Range don't help in the case of the soul-link.In fact more distance between the Alicia and Beth would mean more dangers : a manipulator can disrupt the soul-link, ambushers (ghosts) can target Beth, ranger attackers can even block the soul-link before Beth can establish it by killing\hurt Beth.

The chances for their succesfull merge is greater than in the case of Rafaela & Luciella because they share the same youma flesh and their mind is quite simple.

I think the difference between the two is that Alicia will not have a full merge with Beth.The ORG would not risk to much and will take step by step approch which will take a long time, while Riful will roll the dice and see in one shot if Rafaela & Luciella can do the trick.

If we look at first it may seem that Rafaela & Luciella combo is more instable because their youma donor is different while Alcia and Beth share the same flesh but usualy hybrids are more stronger.I think that Rafaciella will be stronger than Alicia+Beth.