Japanese Mahjong Thread

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by bayoab

Minor note about Furi-ten:
Tenhou will sometimes (always?) put you in permanent furiten if you ignore a winning discard by an opponent. You are normally allowed to skip an opponents discard but you cannot declare a win until 1 go around later.

If you declared Leeche and ignored a winning tile by an opponent then it is furiten due to the same reason. You can't target someone specific to Ron after declaring leeche because it again disables your opponent from "reading" what you are waiting for.

=EDIT=

Actually the correct terminology in this case is "Chonbo".
It's been awhile since I joined a table.

[Peanutbutter]

Originally Posted by bayoab

Minor note about Furi-ten:
Tenhou will sometimes (always?) put you in permanent furiten if you ignore a winning discard by an opponent. You are normally allowed to skip an opponents discard but you cannot declare a win until 1 go around later.

Temporary furiten: When you are not in Riichi status, and you ignore a winning discard. Lasts until your coming turn.

Permanent furiten: 1) When you are in Riichi status, and you ignore a winning discard by others.

2) When one (or more) of your winning tiles is one that has been earlier discarded by yourself.

Correct me if I am wrong on this.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Peanutbutter003

Correct me if I am wrong on this.

Upon consulting with Japanese wikipedia, you are right. The +riichi furiten rule isn't mentioned in some of the English rule sets.

[Christen]

To simplify furiten, as long as you have a winning tile in your discard pool (plus all discards after your riichi), you cannot win on Ron. This applies to multiple waits.

[Secca]

Correct me if I'm wrong. So basically with this Furi-ten rule, you can actually avoid being Ron by someone who declared a Riichi. By counting his discard pile and other tile that were discarded by other players after the point he declared a Riichi. As long as you don't discard anything new you should be able to avoid get Ron by that player or even holding the winning tile? ^^

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Secca

Correct me if I'm wrong. So basically with this Furi-ten rule, you can actually avoid being Ron by someone who declared a Riichi. By counting his discard pile and other tile that were discarded by other players after the point he declared a Riichi. As long as you don't discard anything new you should be able to avoid get Ron by that player or even holding the winning tile? ^^

Or make a pon into a kan. Otherwise, correct. Anything in the discard pool of the player who has declared riichi or played after that riichi will not result in that player winning.

[Rias]

Originally Posted by Secca

Correct me if I'm wrong. So basically with this Furi-ten rule, you can actually avoid being Ron by someone who declared a Riichi. By counting his discard pile and other tile that were discarded by other players after the point he declared a Riichi. As long as you don't discard anything new you should be able to avoid get Ron by that player or even holding the winning tile? ^^

That's one of the most basic, and surefire way, to make sure that you don't deal into your opponent's hand.

[Christen]

Originally Posted by Secca

Correct me if I'm wrong. So basically with this Furi-ten rule, you can actually avoid being Ron by someone who declared a Riichi. By counting his discard pile and other tile that were discarded by other players after the point he declared a Riichi. As long as you don't discard anything new you should be able to avoid get Ron by that player or even holding the winning tile? ^^

Just as Rias said, it's the most basic strategy of trying not to deal into someone's hand. This is also what you call playing safe. Be sure to also take note of all the tiles stolen from that player as they are counted in their discard pool.

[felix]

Let me guess, that would be every tile that's placed sideways when they form a exposed Pon/Chi/Kan?

Originally Posted by 4Tran

There are no flowers in the Japanese rulesets, so you should be fine with either Gamedesign or Tenhou.

No I'm talking about the mahjong variants that do have them, are flowers seperated and mixed with the tiles in the dead wall? or can you find them among the normal ones.

[M.Marangio]

Originally Posted by Cats

Let me guess, that would be every tile that's placed sideways when they form a exposed Pon/Chi/Kan?

Correct, and it's placed left/in the middle/right such that you can see who discarded the tile.

No I'm talking about the mahjong variants that do have them, are flowers seperated and mixed with the tiles in the dead wall? or can you find them among the normal ones.

If I remember correctly, flower tiles are mixed with the normal tiles. If you draw such a tile you put it on your side and draw a replacement tile from the dead end of the wall or the far end of the wall.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Secca

Correct me if I'm wrong. So basically with this Furi-ten rule, you can actually avoid being Ron by someone who declared a Riichi. By counting his discard pile and other tile that were discarded by other players after the point he declared a Riichi. As long as you don't discard anything new you should be able to avoid get Ron by that player or even holding the winning tile? ^^

It also applies for "Suji" or streaks.
For example the winning tile is "chi" 3 or 5 and after Riichi an opponent disgarded a 5 and you missed ron making 3 invalid or chonbo because the suji or streak will be either 3,5 or 7.
Consider playing Battleship and the opponent made a hit on your ship, you have to declare a hit so the opponent knows where the ship is located but in the opposite terms by not declaring ron, you are telling your opponent which "suji" is safe.

If I remember correctly, flower tiles are mixed with the normal tiles. If you draw such a tile you put it on your side and draw a replacement tile from the dead end of the wall or the far end of the wall.

I don't know about proper rules but when we were playing we just disregarded the flower completely and did not place them in the wall in the first place.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by bayoab

Anything in the discard pool of the player who has declared riichi or played after that riichi will not result in that player winning.

I find it a really weird rule tbh...I've always thought that "deception" also play a part in this game and just because a tile was discarded in the past doesn't mean later circumstances would mean you never need the same time again during the game. It's rather restrictive...since it makes it hard to change from one hand to another.

[felix]

I think the point is to eliminate a big chunk of the luck factor by narrowing the possibilities.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

I find it a really weird rule tbh...I've always thought that "deception" also play a part in this game and just because a tile was discarded in the past doesn't mean later circumstances would mean you never need the same time again during the game. It's rather restrictive...since it makes it hard to change from one hand to another.

Yes but you can also set traps utilizing this factor.
Such as collecting two of a kind next to the suji so it looks as if the bordering tile is an anpai and/or creating multiple waits using Jantou as bait.
In a way it is a mind game where you try to outwit the opponents placing various camouflage into the disgarded pile without actually doing a chonbo.

The higher the level it gets the more perceptive you need to be in deducting the hand of the opponent. From where the opponent picked out the title to disgard or placed in to the his own hand to how long he had considered to make the next move, all becomes hints on how far the opponent had advanced his hands.

[Rias]

Usually you can only avoid dealing into the other's hand with that tactic for a bit. Sooner or later you would run out of safe tiles to discard.

That's why it's also important to be able to read what your opponent's hand is by reading their discard pile also...and that's where the "deception" part comes in. There are many stratergies out there that helps you lower the chance of dealing into other's hand.

[Proto]

So near... yet so far



(isshanten from nine gates)

[Malintex_Terek]

That's quite a feat in 4P. I've actually gotten Tenpai for a Chuurenpotou, but haven't earned it yet.

My most impressive Yakuman was a Shou Suu Shi, which I was also in weak Suu An Kou tenpai for. That match can be seen here.

Also, feel free to use the Ron Database to host your notable wins, special han, etc. It's available just for that purpose.

[Rias]

Had this two days ago.

Kokushi single wait @ South-2

I don't know why I declared riichi...

[Secca]

Thank you guys for explaining the important use of Kan a while back. Lately I've been playing close hand most of the time because the score are higher. But one particular game I wasn't sure what I was making, I had a triplets of 4 Coins. The dora indicator at that time was 1 bamboo, and I have a pair of 2 bamboo in my hand. For some reason when another 4 coin show up, I just decide to try open hand and called a Kan. The thing is when I called the Kan, it open up another 1 bamboo. It was unbelieveable. I won that hand and it was like: 22(b) 45(b) Chi: 567(c) Pon: 888(c) Kan: 4444(c) and 6(b) was Ron. I got Tan'Yao 1, Dora 4. Mangan. 12000. ^^^^ That's like the biggest score I ever had. I doubt it will happen again, but it was really cool. ^^

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Proto

So near... yet so far



(isshanten from nine gates)

Haha...

I bet the guy to the right of you was crapping himself when the hand was revealed at the end