Madoka Magica - Character Discussion - Kyubei

[totoum]

Originally Posted by novalysis

Walpurgis Night = Kyubey could be a very real possibility here.

Don't think so,when Madoka defeats Walpurgis Night in one shot QB is still alive afterwards and talks to Homura.

[Quadratic]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I've just re watched Episode 8 , and some things jump right out at me .

In episode 8 , Homura mentions that Kyubey has a true form, and certain.... plans. Could it be that Walpuirgis is Kyubey ?????

Perhaps all the Grief Seeds collected by Kyubey is used to produce a Walpurgis night , multiple Grief Seeds blended together to create a Super Witch , that would reverse massive quantities of Entropy in the process . This Walpurgis Night is directly controlled and managed by Kyubey himself , hence essentially being Kyubey's true form ?

I mention this because of Episode 10. So far as I know , it has not been showed when, where and under what circumstances Homura learned of Kyubey's true form . Walpurgis Night = Kyubey could be a very real possibility here.

Subs I read said "I know what you are and what you're planning".
And as revealed in ep 9:
What he is: alien collecting energy
What he's planning: Turn Madoka into a Mahou Shoujo to collect her energy.

I'm not sure why people want to suggest Kyubei has ulterior motives over ulterior motives that was just revealed.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by Quadratic

Subs I read said "I know what you are and what you're planning".
And as revealed in ep 9:
What he is: alien collecting energy
What he's planning: Turn Madoka into a Mahou Shoujo to collect her energy.

I'm not sure why people want to suggest Kyubei has ulterior motives over ulterior motives that was just revealed.

Perhaps I have phrased my theory quite poorly . My point is not ascribing to Kyubey another motive , but rather that Walpurgis Nacth is an integral part of Kyubey's Entropy Defiance scheme.

Walpurgis Night , as some other theories in other threads , and perhaps before this , might not be the Witch of a Single fallen Puella Magi , but rather , a collection of Grief Seeds merged together into a Single powerful entity called Walpurgis Night. A gathering of Witches manifested as a Single Super-witch .

Walpurgis Night , I believe , is fully controlled by Kyubey . It probably can only be executed once a certain number of Grief Seeds are collected, and perhaps some other conditions , and when it's triggered , produces immense amounts of Material used to defy Entropy.

In other words , Kyubey could be Walpurgis - or more accurately, Walpurgis is a mere drone "Witch"; made out of multiple Witches controlled directly by Kyubey . Killing it of course , does not kill Kyubey - any more than shooting down a UAV kills the pilot controlling it from hundereds of kilometers away.

Given that some Magical Girls may take a very long time to become Witches , Walpurgis Night might also play a role in encouraging the formation of new Witches , in addition to becoming a Madoka Esque power source .

In fact , what makes Madoka unique might be the fact that her full potential is equal to that of dozens of Magical Girls - multiple Walpurgis Nights combined.

[Sekirei07]

I blame QB for what happened yesterday...

[Triple_R]

I just wrote a new blog on Kyubey, and how I think he's going to have a major impact on the world of anime.

Any and all comments on that blog would be welcomed.

[Sekirei07]

I just thought of something that I wonder about now. We now know that Homura's weapons are normal guns/explosives but in the scene where Homura makes Swiss cheese out of QB. Why is it the background bench does not suffer any damage despite the bullets clearly have gone through QB.

I wonder if the disintegrate upon contact with his insides, like in Alien.


I also have a big question about QB. How did he start this whole system?

I how did he get this first MG to become a Witch?

I can easily see how you can find some poor girl who has a wish and granting it. But I wonder how the conversation went.

QB: Hey, form a contract with me and become a MG.
Girl: What do I do as a MG?
QB: ...

Soul Gems must be capable of taint beyond just fighting Witches, otherwise how could the first Witch have been born? Unless QB also brought some alien Witches at first to get the ball rolling.

[Jimmy C]

"Make a wish, get this nice shiny souvenir for free!"
Eventually the Soul Gem completely darkens from using magic to control the body. Witch.

[Quadratic]

Originally Posted by Sekirei07

I also have a big question about QB. How did he start this whole system?

I how did he get this first MG to become a Witch?

I can easily see how you can find some poor girl who has a wish and granting it. But I wonder how the conversation went.

QB: Hey, form a contract with me and become a MG.
Girl: What do I do as a MG?
QB: ...

Soul Gems must be capable of taint beyond just fighting Witches, otherwise how could the first Witch have been born? Unless QB also brought some alien Witches at first to get the ball rolling.

I'd assume the first MG would have been in a near fatal situation like Mami.
If you're dying it'd be easy to get them to wish to live and skip the whole explanation the cost.
And despair accelerates the rate of the taint - case in point: Sayaka.

[Dr. Casey]

I'm rewatching the whole series to refresh my memory for the last two episodes/just for something fun to do (I marathoned 1-5 tonight, will do the same for 6-10 tomorrow). A certain line from Kyubey in the second episode really jumped out at me. This is going by the Nutbladder version, around 11:45 into the episode.

Sayaka: There's plenty of things I want and things I'd like to do. But I can't get over the 'risking my life' part. I don't want anything that bad.
Kyubey: Wow, I'm surprised. Most girls go right for it.

wait, what

Surprise is an emotion, Kyubey. That (loveable) little lying bastard... now I'm wondering whether he was telling the truth or not when he claimed that his species doesn't have emotions.

Well, just 33 hours until the last two episodes, so maybe the whole issue will be answered then. Kyubey never fails to surprise, amaze, and amuse, so I'm curious to see what role he'll play in the finale. Should add a few feathers to his troll hat.

[Snork]

Coming from him, that might be a figure of speech. Otherwise, he's capable of specifically reacting to unexpected things and "surprise" is the closest word to describe it in conversation, but he doesn't consider it a real emotion. If we go by the subs, he seems to use this word freely - in ep 9 he tells Kyouko he wouldn't be surprised if she managed to convert Octavia back to Sayaka.

Emotions are basically reactions. Maybe in Kyuubey's POV not all reactions can be called emotions... as not all reactions yield sufficient energy? If his classification is downright practical, then from human perspective, his race MIGHT have a basic set of emotions, only heavily subdued in comparison - thus not really counting by his criteria. /人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\

[taofd]

Surprise is hardly an emotion. It happens when something does not result the way an individual expects it to.

And emotions are not "basically reactions".

"Emotion is associated with mood, temperament, personality, and disposition."

or

"A person's internal state of being and involuntary, subjective, physiological response to an object or a situation, based in or tied to physical state and sensory feelings; A reaction by an non-human organism with behavioral and physiological elements similar to a person's response."

The fact that QB specifically says that his race cannot feel emotions implies that their brain structure or whatever higher processing structure is significantly different and devoid of the form of feedback mechanism emotions provide for us.

[Dark Wing]

So I guess we can finally put this debate to rest?...

Kyuube was never really evil just doing his job and keeping the balance...

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Kyuube was never really evil just doing his job and keeping the balance...

Doing his job, yes, keeping the balance, not. Struggling against the natural laws of the universe, as is Kyuube's fighting against entropy, is pretty disruptive.

[erneiz_hyde]

Who's with me thinking the reformed QB actually looks cute?

[Kaijo]

Well, from one point of view... he gave mankind civilization and is a big reason why we are at this technologically developed. It cost us some girls here and there, but also helped forestall entropy.

From a strictly logical, emotionless point of view, it would seem to be more than a fair trade.

[henwy]

Score! So I assume from the comments that the QB != Evil Team won? In Yo Face, QB = Evil Team! I haven't actually watched the last two eps (They're downloading now) but I never got the impression QB was evil. He would have been a better manipulator if he were since many times the information he offered up freely was the very thing which would hurt his cause the most and make the girls freak out. In the entire series there was only 1 problematic statement where I questioned his intentions and that was the whole, WitchMadoka blow up the world in 10 days but I don't care, I've met my quota and it's miller time. That made no sense to me since it would seem Entropy was an ongoing problem. Having someone blow up your source of Entropy repellent and not caring seemed to make no sense and suggested that fighting off Entropy might not have been his real goal. I still don't know if that was just a poor translation or if there's something in the last two eps that fixes it.

[Xacual]

Originally Posted by henwy

Score! So I assume from the comments that the QB != Evil Team won? In Yo Face, QB = Evil Team! I haven't actually watched the last two eps (They're downloading now) but I never got the impression QB was evil. He would have been a better manipulator if he were since many times the information he offered up freely was the very thing which would hurt his cause the most and make the girls freak out. In the entire series there was only 1 problematic statement where I questioned his intentions and that was the whole, WitchMadoka blow up the world in 10 days but I don't care, I've met my quota and it's miller time. That made no sense to me since it would seem Entropy was an ongoing problem. Having someone blow up your source of Entropy repellent and not caring seemed to make no sense and suggested that fighting off Entropy might not have been his real goal. I still don't know if that was just a poor translation or if there's something in the last two eps that fixes it.

QB before the reset was immoral, he used the human race as cattle to protect his species. He had no problem if the human race died they were just tools to accomplish his means. Honestly I'd argue this is evil from the perspective of the human race. Don't use the technology given argument because many societies that we consider primitive today were as happy as present day.

QB after the reset is slightly more benevolent because magical girls no longer become witches. They fight something else and they can get rid of the darkness in the soul gems easier it seems. Of course they can still die or disappear but that seems to just be the hazard they take for a wish, it doesn't seem like a guaranteed situation like it was before.

[Kaijo]

I wouldn't say it was a matter of Kyube being evil or not (and thus one side or the other "winning"). Kyube wasn't evil in the "Mwahahaha! I'm a villain!" sense. He lacked emotions, being purely logical, doing what he was doing for what he felt was for the greater good of all. At best, one could call him antagonistic, and he certainly came across quite dickish; but then again, McCoy also had things to say about Spock, heh.

The whole "Kyube defender" thing was partially a joke, mainly to introduce new lines of thought, since the prevailing one was "Kyube is evil!" and no one seemed to be considering otherwise. In that light, I'd say we succeeded, since many people changed their viewpoint, and at least began considering alternate explanations.

What people like Triple R and myself were coming from, was that Kyube felt so downright evil and creepy from nearly day 1 that the evil explanation felt too... simplistic and obvious. We felt there was a more complex explanation.

And of course, the whole defense attorney thing was to have fun with the concept, heh.

But yeah, now Kyube seems to at least be no longer antagonistic, working with the girls. Time will tell how things change, with any spinoffs and sequels.

[henwy]

I don't frequent anime message boards much and only tossed off a few QB != Evil comments here so I wasn't aware that the overwhelming consensus was that he was evil among anime fans. Thus my opinion wasn't a backlash against the general consensus, I just never really got that impression from him watching the series. He just never did the 'right' things if his goal was really malicious and completely self-centered. I think people just have a tendency to jump to conclusions in cases like this. If the girls are good then anyone who makes the girls sad must be evil. It's a ridiculously simplistic (and often wrong) way of looking at things.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

What people like Triple R and myself were coming from, was that Kyube felt so downright evil and creepy from nearly day 1 that the evil explanation felt too... simplistic and obvious. We felt there was a more complex explanation.

And of course, the whole defense attorney thing was to have fun with the concept, heh.

You do know that the two of you could've saved yourselves a lot of troublesome criticism had you all stated this from the very beginning.