One Piece - Chapter 547 [Manga]

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by paradox13

I'm lovin how OP chapters are coming out way sooner then either Bleach or Naruto chapters ^^

If only OP side characters got some face and weren't so neglected, everything would be perfect.

Originally Posted by james0246

^Yeah, I was baffled by the endnote, as well. Why was Oda, or his editor, emphasizing the "awesomeness"" of Jinbei? It was very weird...

It was awkward, but then again his intro and end notes or titles are rarely any good, but then again Luffy did say Jinbei is a awesome, so its not out of Odas character to agree with him. (Odas a Luffy fanboy much)

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by paradox13

I'm lovin how OP chapters are coming out way sooner then either Bleach or Naruto chapters ^^

Save the more exciting series for last.

Originally Posted by kakakka

Well, its his job. I'll be really disappointed if he just watched them escape now....

Yeah, Luffy doesn't deserve to go to Marineford, Mags needs to waste Luffy here and now.

[james0246]

Still with the "deserves" rhetoric? No one deserves to go to Marineford (ther's no secret test you can take (for a pirate at least) which makes you eligible for admission to Marineford), but plenty of people want to go to Marineford, Whitebeard and Luffy among them...

[Phenomenal]

Whitebeard deserves to go because he has the power to save his Nakama, Luffy doesn't.

I just hope the Blackbeard pirates doesn't come and try to interfere with Mags trying to capture Luffy next chapter. I suspect the next chapter we might see the Blackbeard pirates and their new members......"Shiryu of the Rain," Katarina Devon, The Giant Battleship, San Juan Wolf... Basco Shot, the Drunk.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Whitebeard deserves to go because he has the power to save his Nakama, Luffy doesn't.

No, having power (whatever it may be) doesn't mean you "deserve" anything (only villains ever think that having power measn that you "deserve" something in return (case and point...many of the villains Luffy has faced - Morgan, Arlong, Buggy, Crocodile (to an extent), and Enel (definetly)). It simply means that you have power.

Whitebeard wanting to save Ace is undisputed, as if Luffy wanting to save Ace. Whether they succeed or not is defintely helped by whatever power they may posses, but simply having the power is not indicitive of success, nor does it have a direct bearing on their wants/desires.

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

I just hope the Blackbeard pirates doesn't come and try to interfere with Mags trying to capture Luffy next chapter. I suspect the next chapter we might see the Blackbeard pirates and their new members..."Shiryu of the Rain," Katarina Devon, The Giant Battleship, San Juan Wolf... Basco Shot, the Drunk.

Since the first time I heard about Katarina Devon, I have wanted to know about her history. Colour me a feminist, but I love strong female characters, and since Hancock has...not quite lived up to her title (she still has time), I want to see what Katarina can do...

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by james0246

No, having power (whatever it may be) doesn't mean you "deserve" anything (only villains ever think that having power measn that you "deserve" something in return (case and point...many of the villains Luffy has faced - Morgan, Arlong, Buggy, Crocodile (to an extent), and Enel (definetly)). It simply means that you have power.

Whitebeard wanting to save Ace is undisputed, as if Luffy wanting to save Ace. Whether they succeed or not is defintely helped by whatever power they may posses, but simply having the power is not indicitive of success, nor does it have a direct bearing on their wants/desires.

Spoiler:

"I couldn't even... save a single Nakama."

Since the first time I heard about Katarina Devon, I have wanted to know about her history. Colour me a feminist, but I love strong female characters, and since Hancock has...not quite lived up to her title, I want to see what Katarina can do...

Well Katarina was described as being strong/fearsome...

[kakakka]

Whitebeard deserves to go because he has the power to save his Nakama, Luffy doesn't.

Well, Luffy by his own rubber power alone can't take on Marineford. His charm to gather people can help him though...

[Sakuranbo]

Well I was certaintly surprised to see that Ivankov has blue hair, I was expecting him to have blond or pink hair but it's always a surprise with Oda I guess

This was a pretty good chapter, looks like Luffy and co are in the clear (from Magellan at least) and they just need to reach Ace in time but then there is also Shiryuu who is possibly still out there somewhere (wonder what he's up to?)

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Spoiler:

"I couldn't even... save a single Nakama."

LMAO! So I guess Monkey D Poopy now gets the right to save Ace while facing even more impossible odds. I wished Oda would keep Luffy's weak baby a$$ out of this event and keep it to the Big players. Heck in fact I'm sick of hearing a$$ back wards arguments, like "Luffy wants to save Ace" WTF SO! that don't mean he is suppose to or should when others who are more qualified then luffy have the same goal? Everyone wants to do X, that does not mean they are qualified or can. Wanting simply can't get you no where. Its the work you put in, and how you stack up against someone with the same goal as you. Point is who is more qualified?

Whitebeard Pirates Or Monkey D Luffy?

Newgate is more qualified then Luffy who couldn't even save his own crew mates with the help of the Silvers, Heck Kuma had to step in and cover there a$$es.

Originally Posted by james0246

Still with the "deserves" rhetoric? No one deserves to go to Marineford (ther's no secret test you can take (for a pirate at least) which makes you eligible for admission to Marineford), but plenty of people want to go to Marineford, Whitebeard and Luffy among them...

Newgate was invited (Ala come save Ace b**ch - sincerely The World Goverment) to Marineford, along with the Admirals etc Seven Armed Seas. Luffy just wants to go party crash.

[Rainbowman]

Originally Posted by Master Mold

If only OP side characters got some face and weren't so neglected, everything would be perfect.

What did you mean when you said this? With that term "got some face", I hope it doesn't mean what I think it means in terms of sexual relations.

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by Rainbowman

What did you mean when you said this? With that term "got some face", I hope it doesn't mean what I think it means in terms of sexual relations.

Get some face time, as in spot light, but then again since they are rarely shown, it is like they don't have faces anymore. In fact I seem to be forgetting some of there names.

[Rainbowman]

Originally Posted by Master Mold

Get some face time, as in spot light, but then again since they are rarely shown, it is like they don't have faces anymore. In fact I seem to be forgetting some of there names.

In that case, here are the names of the characters that I'd like to see faces of:

Katarina Devon, The Giant Battleship, San Juan Wolf, Basco Shot, the Drunk, Akainu, Dr. Vegapunk, Kaidou and the yet to be named 4th Yonkou.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Mister Mold

Heck in fact I'm sick of hearing a$$ back wards arguments, like "Luffy wants to save Ace" WTF SO! that don't mean he is suppose to or should when others who are more qualified then luffy have the same goal? Everyone wants to do X, that does not mean they are qualified or can. Wanting simply can't get you no where. Its the work you put in, and how you stack up against someone with the same goal as you. Point is who is more qualified?

Whitebeard is more qualified to save Ace...or at least he has the greater chance of succeeding in a frontal assault. I do not think anyone has ever denied this (or at least I have never denied this). The point I, and others, have made many times, though, is that if Whitebeard has any sort of "right" to try and save Ace (as you and Phenomenal have often said), then Luffy has a similar "right" (if you do not like the word right, please insert "want" or "desire" instead).

To put it another way, this idea that only power and power alone allows anyone to do anything, even to try something, is falacious. Power is what helps you to succeed, it is not what gives you the ability to try.

Consequently, this idea that Oda shouldn't even let Luffy try is not only preposterous, it is downright ignorant (of the story and the characters).

Originally Posted by Mister Mold

Newgate was invited (Ala come save Ace b**ch - sincerely The World Goverment) to Marineford, along with the Admirals etc Seven Armed Seas. Luffy just wants to go party crash.

See, I actually agree with this assessment...sadly enough, though, this is similar to what I have said repeatedly in the past. It is in Luffy's character to try and save Ace, that is, more or less, a canon fact. But, the problem is, people seem to not understand that the argument I, and others, have made concerning Luffy trying, does not imply Luffy succeeding. I would be just as content for Luffy to try and then fail, as I would be for Luffy to try and then succeed. In fact, Luffy failing could provide many more interesting story paths.

[Change of Pace]

One an unrelated note, Oda's character design qualities - and how he makes each character so distinct from one another - really came out in the chapter. Even during a common fight scene, there's little details that distinguish two sullen and quiet characters: Crocodile and Das Bones. Crocodile wordless kicks ass, while Das allows some banter with his opponent; he states his devil's fruit, and THEN proceeds to kick the shit out of them. =D

[andy]

James0246 why do you even bother we have been over this to many times. Maybe like some other manga luffy will go to battle weak( just like other char) get stab and then get some stupid power up. No matter what you say ,they are not going to change there minds.

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by james0246

Whitebeard is more qualified to save Ace...

Nuff said.

or at least he has the greater chance of succeeding in a frontal assault. I do not think anyone has ever denied this (or at least I have never denied this). The point I, and others, have made many times, though, is that if Whitebeard has any sort of "right" to try and save Ace (as you and Phenomenal have often said), then Luffy has a similar "right" (if you do not like the word right, please insert "want" or "desire" instead).

You don't get the right to save Ace when your not qualified. That is my argument.

See, I actually agree with this assessment...

Good to know.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Mister Mold

You don't get the right to save Ace when your not qualified. That is my argument.

And, sadly enough, that is a foolish argument based on no evidence and is ultimately ignorant of not only the series, but the entire Shounen "genre". When was the last time you saw a Shounen fight in which the main character was inhernetly "qualified" to be the hero (the last I can think of to be published was Kenshin, but even he had to undergo some training arcs)? So, unless you are going to start deriding Naruto for fighting Akatsuki/Pain, and Ichigo for attempting to conquer Hueco Mundo (just to refference the other 2 members of the Holy Trinity of (current) Shounen Jump who both attempted to bite off more than they could chew, even when those better than them told them not to) then not only is your opinion ridiculously biased, it is still an outright ignorant comment in regards to the actual story.

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by james0246

And, sadly enough, that is a foolish argument based on absolutely no evidence and is ultimately ignorant of not only the series, but the entire Shounen "genre".[

No its not Mr fanboi, Look at this picture.

Originally Posted by Phenomenal

Spoiler:

"I couldn't even... save a single Nakama."

Your the only one who is ignorant of the story. Luffy has failed to save his OWN crew while getting help from Silvers. You think he is qualified to save Ace, who is at a place where there are guys who are many times stronger then a Kuma Bot who can chase Luffy (who hasn't gotten any stronger since then) away?

Why am I asking you think so.

When was the last time you saw any Shounen fight in which the main characters was inherently "qualified" to be the hero (the last I can think of to be published was Kenshin, but even he had to undergo some training arcs)?

Goku..................

You named one. You need to read more Shounen manga or at least actual read them. Not so that you can diss them to pump up One Pieces faggoty......Heck lets look at the Naruto manga, that you b***h about all the time. Naruto was qualified to beat Pain for Naruto actual trained, got stronger, learned sh8t and improved on old sh8t, and used all the Intel/help the village gathered for him and aid they offered. Kenshin undergo some training arcs as you stated, that qualified him to over come X battle. Heck you got guys in Yu Yu Hak training and gaining sh8t so they can over come X battle in Dark tournament etc etc.

They just don't over come X because they are the main character. if that was the case Naruto would have been nothing but bomb since chapter 1.

So, unless you are going to start deriding Naruto for fighting Akatsuki/Pain, and Ichigo for attempting to conquer Hueco Mundo (just to name the other 2 members of the Holy Trinity of (current) Shounen Jump) then not only is your opinion ridiculously biased, it is still an outright ignorant comment in regards to the actual story.

No your the one who is biased. You can't even accept the fact that Ods boi Luffy is not even qualified to save Ace. Don't bring up the other Main characters from the other Holy Trinity, when they actual work to archive ends and when its not enough they don't. Where as Luffy gets wasted, and comes back and beats the bad guy with some unexplained bull sh8t. The only one having trouble understanding these crappy stories is you James. Heck I see Phenom regurgitate story points for you in the Bleach thread.

[andy]

OP does not have training arcs when luffy going to do some thing we see it when he does it . While you might not like that , i do .
Also don't come with that that bull shit that they work for it . Ichigo went got his ass kick, get some stupid power up everyone saw coming a mile away. That he can't even control yet .
Same for naruto went away 3 years and learn nothing why , so we can see in manga doing more training arcs. yeah let wait for 20 chapters to see naruto add a windmill around the only move he does. Training Arc is a easy way for a manga to fill pages .
Your idea that you have go and train to beat someone or to save someone in manga that never had training arcs is stupid .

Poor luffy he's only one that does have a save move. Naruto 9 tails power , Ichigo make another new form from his mask. Maybe Haki will be luffy own.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Master Mold

Your the only one who is ignorant of the story. Luffy has failed to save his OWN crew while getting help from Silvers. You think he is qualified to save Ace, who is at a place where there are guys who are many times stronger then a Kuma Bot who can chase Luffy (who hasn't gotten any stronger since then) away?

“Sigh” Again, being qualified has nothing to do with anything. One of the basic tenets of Luffy’s character is to try and help/save his nakama. Does he always succeed? No, of course not. But, whether he succeeds or fails is totally irrelevant to the discussion (what’s the point of arguing how well Luffy will perform in the war, considering he isn’t even in the war yet?). You are ignorant of the story (or you simply do not understand it) because you do not understand such basic facts of Luffy’s character definition. Failing to save his friends is the worst possible outcome to Luffy’s, but not even trying is no different from failing. So, Luffy will try his hardest to rescue Ace, and even if he fails, at least he tried

Spoiler for continuing this long message...:

Originally Posted by Master Mold

You named one.

You named one as well …besides that, you seem to greatly misunderstand my point. Shounen series are generally based around a boy/girl who is just beginning their journey. Consequently, they are not immediately “qualified” to fight the extreme evils in the world. Kenshin is an example where the main character is immediately qualified and only needs simple training to attain his ultimate powers. Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, etc are all manga that have the main characters start out "under-qualified” and eventually reach the ultimate levels of power.

Here are a few other manga that have characters that start out “qualified” (using Wikipedia’s list (and trying to only pick battle manga that I know I have read)):

Spoiler for Already Qualified main characters that can succeed with what they have...:

City Hunter, Beelzebub, Death Note, Black Cat, Fist of the North Star, Great Teacher Onizuka, Rurouni Kenshin, Hoshin Engi, Kurohime, Kinnikuman, Ranma ½, Trigun, Violinist of Hameln, and Yakitate!! Japan.

And, here is a brief list of manga in which the character starts out under-qualified (again, picking the titles I know I have read):

Spoiler for under-qualified main characters that become great:

Air Gear, +Anima, Beet the Vandel Buster, Bakuman, D.Gray-man, Claymore, BECK: Mongolian Chop Squad, Buso Renkin, Bleach, Guyver, Deadman Wonderland, Devilman (a little), Dragon Ball (and even Z, Goku still has to receive ultimate power-ups at times just to equal his foes), Eyeshield 21, Fairy Tail, Hajime no Ippo, Hunter x Hunter, Flame of Recca, Kenichi, Kekkaishi, Katsu!, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Hikaru no Go, The Law of Ueki, Mr. Fullswing, M×0, Nabari no Ou, Naruto, 666 Satan, Katekyō Hitman Reborn!, Groove Adventure RAVE, Psyren, Prince of Tennis, Shaman King, Slam Dunk, Touch, and Yu Yu Hakushou.

Now, as to my original point, Luffy is like the majority of characters in Shounen – an under-qualifier that through trial and error, and constant battle and training, is able to become one of the “qualified”. Consequently, as was my point, your obsession with this idea of being “qualified” is ultimately pointless in a story based around the concept of a character being under-“qualified” eventually struggling to become “qualified”.

So, once again, your lack of understanding concerning the basic story of One Piece is causing you some major problems...

Originally Posted by Master Mold

Heck lets look at the Naruto manga, that you b***h about all the time.

Just as a side point, you obviously have never visited the Naruto forums before this last month, because I am one of the few acknowledged Naruto fanboys on the site, and have gone out of my way to defend Naruto and Kishimoto to many of the negative posters..

Originally Posted by Master Mold

They just don't over come X because they are the main character. if that was the case Naruto would have been nothing but bomb since chapter 1.

I am not sure what this has to do with anything. I never argued that any character beat another simply because they are the main character. That is an argument that you use, not I.

Originally Posted by Master Mold

No your the one who is biased. You can't even accept the fact that Ods boi Luffy is not even qualified to save Ace. Don't bring up the other Main characters from the other Holy Trinity, when they actual work to archive ends and when its not enough they don't. Where as Luffy gets wasted, and comes back and beats the bad guy with some unexplained bull sh8t. The only one having trouble understanding these crappy stories is you James. Heck I see Phenom regurgitate story points for you in the Bleach thread.

One Piece certainly doesn’t emphasize training as much as other series, so I cannot really argue with that, but you seem to have completely missed my point, once again. I never claimed that Luffy was “qualified” to save Ace, and currently I never will (later in the series he will eventually be more powerful that Whitebeard, etc, but right now he isn't even close). In fact I have even said that he was under-“qualified”. But, what you are refusing to admit, entirely due to your extreme bias (and judging by your rhetoric involved in just discussing the issue (and the breakdown of your grammar, vocabulary, and spelling), you have some deep seeded rage concerning this series, so much so that I would suggest you stop reading the manga for a month or so) is that characters like Ichigo were under-qualified to attack Hueco Mundo (which is almost exactly the same as Luffy attacking Impel Down/Marineford), etc (I can list all the instances from the series I have listed above, if you desire). Unless you are willing to take your basic stance to all Shounen manga (i.e. those under-qualified shouldn’t fight), then you are simply being biased, and consequently your opinion is too skewed to be of any relevance to a discussion.