One Piece - Chapter 561 (manga)

[james0246]

Wow, you guys are really stretching this (pun intended ). Luffy didn't see the future or read his opponents moves or their "intentions". He simply used his head and realized that stretching his arm against a swordsman of Mihawk's caliber would result in the loss of his limb. This is a pivotal character moment, but not a 'Haki' moment.

[C.A.]

I've been trying to get people to realise that Haki is something very fundamental and simple. It is the character's personality and mentality, it is not something supernatural, not some kind of powerup.

Your Ki is your mind, body and spirit. When you choose to dominate, you have Haki, it is your mentality, your will. Not some kind of special power that comes from a special rock or energy channeled from a parallel universe.

To have the will, mentality, the personality to dominate, to have the ambition, is Haki.

[Sazelyt]

I find it difficult to believe that this is merely a thinking moment for Luffy. Not when he was about to attack him.

If he had decided this before he initiated his attack, I could have agreed to an extent, like when he decided to not face him and run away instead. But, here he didn't do that. Instead, he stopped his attack after he started the attack. And why he imagined that scene, he could have imagined different things, like he was about to be cut in the middle of his body, instead of his arm, or even leg, why the arm? This is too specific to be considered as just the result of mere thinking process...

[james0246]

Originally Posted by C.A.

I've been trying to get people to realise that Haki is something very fundamental and simple. It is the character's personality and mentality, it is not something supernatural, not some kind of powerup.

Your Ki is your mind, body and spirit. When you choose to dominate, you have Haki, it is your mentality, your will. Not some kind of special power that comes from a special rock or energy channeled from a parallel universe.

To have the will, mentality, the personality to dominate, to have the ambition, is Haki.

LOL, I understand Haki quite well, thank you very much . Haki is involved intrinsically in everything in the series, but that doesn't mean Haki is the answer for everything in the series. I don't understand this constant desire to make Haki even more important than it is. This was a growth moment for Luffy, in which he realizes that strength alone will not cut it, especially against his weakness. So, he runs, and keeps running. This is not a 'Haki' moment; it is simply Luffy using his brain, something many of us have remarked that Luffy does not do enough of.

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

I find it difficult to believe that this is merely a thinking moment for Luffy. Not when he was about to attack him.

If he had decided this before he initiated his attack, I could have agreed to an extent, like when he decided to not face him and run away instead. But, here he didn't do that. Instead, he stopped his attack after he started the attack. And why he imagined that scene, he could have imagined different things, like he was about to be cut in the middle of his body, instead of his arm, or even leg, why the arm? This is too specific to be considered as just the result of mere thinking process...

Except, as you say, he was already running away. Luffy knows what he has to do; he has to find a way to save Ace. Losing a limb will not help Luffy in the slightest. Consequently, Luffy is taking the safe route, choosing the battle he knows he can win, and running like hell from the battles he knows will destroy him or that do not matter to his desire of saving Ace. In this instance, Luffy goes against his warrior's instinct because he knows that is not what is important right now.

This was a character growth moment, not any specific power or ability moment.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by james0246

Wow, you guys are really stretching this (pun intended ). Luffy didn't see the future or read his opponents moves or their "intentions". He simply used his head and realized that stretching his arm against a swordsman of Mihawk's caliber would result in the loss of his limb. This is a pivotal character moment, but not a 'Haki' moment.

Yeah, that's also how I pretty much saw it. It's simply Luffy wising up to his opponents, that's all. However, I'm still quite sure that Mihawk was indirectly commenting on Luffy's Haki when talking about his great charisma that allows him to make so many powerful allies. He even goes far as to say that it wasn't a skill or technique, which is what C.A. was trying to tell us all along. Luffy just has some special quality about him that makes others want to follow him (courtesy of the Will of D, no doubt )......




...That being said though, I still wouldn't say that makes Haki the absolute dominant power in the series. Unlike something like, oh say Bleach, Luffy doesn't gain tremendous power-ups when he's about to lose a fight. That's why I actually prefer Haki to most other shonen power-ups, actually..... it's a bit more "believable" than most powers that people are accustomed to.......

[james0246]

^Oh, I definitely agree with that. As you mentioned earlier, any trepidation I had concerning Mihawk's words at the end of the chapter, were almost instantly cleared up after I read some of the official translations (and looked at the raws).

[King Lycan]

Luffy using his head Whitebeard could destroy the PX Army in an instant.

Actually kinda mad they didn't show more of the Kuma battle .

[james0246]

Originally Posted by King Lycan

Luffy using his head Whitebeard could destroy the PX Army in an instant.

Actually kinda mad they didn't show more of the Kuma battle .

Since Ivankov can so freely comment on all of the 'Kumas', I expect the original Kuma might be lying on the ground, injured from Iva's attack...but I could just be "supposing erroneously" here...

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by james0246

Except, as you say, he was already running away. Luffy knows what he has to do; he has to find a way to save Ace. Losing a limb will not help Luffy in the slightest.

Why did he think of losing a limb, in the first place? And not two arms, but a single arm (considering the attack uses both arms, not one)? There are many ways for Mihawk to finish Luffy according to the thinking process, but Luffy thought of a single one.

Based on his previous experiences, he could have just seen himself on the ground, with blood coming out of him, and that would be more than sufficient for a thought.

Or, we don't really need to see a scene of that sort, since a comment on that would do the job more than fine, if it is just a moment triggered by only thinking.

Consequently, Luffy is taking the safe route, choosing the battle he knows he can win, and running like hell from the battles he knows will destroy him or that do not matter to his desire of saving Ace. In this instance, Luffy goes against his warrior's instinct because he knows that is not what is important right now.

That is fine and all, but it doesn't explain the need to show a specific scene, which may not even match what Luffy would normally think of if he were to make a prediction on the attack, based on his thinking process. That is not one of his experiences. He had many battles against people of different sort, and he sees only that scene. To me, result of the Zoro-Mihawk encounter from the past would be a good example for Luffy to think. Not this one.

The scene doesn't really match Luffy, in many ways.

This was a character growth moment, not any specific power or ability moment.

A question. Are you perfectly sure that this is character growth? If you can give a percentage of the possibilities, what would you give to the haki-based scenario? And, if you assigned a non-zero probability to it, what was the reasoning you used for that possibility?

[marvelB]

Well, even if there was a lack of Kuma battles in this chapter, we should get much more Kuma than we bargained for in the next chapter. As I said before, this would be a great opportunity to see the New World captains in action, since they'll be facing off against much higher-than-average grunts......

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

Why did he think of losing a limb, in the first place? And not two arms, but a single arm (considering the attack uses both arms, not one)? There are many ways for Mihawk to finish Luffy according to the thinking process, but Luffy thought of a single one.

You realize this defeats your point, right? If Luffy was using Haki to predetermine what would occur, then he should see both arms cut, not just one.

In the end, the visual of a cut arm was just that, a visual. It represented Luffy's thought process, not any specific foresight (beyond regular cause and effect thought patterns). Hell, the cut arm literally appears as a thought balloon above Luffy's head, which should be a clear visual metaphor for what Oda is trying to do.

At best, this is a sequence of Mihawk's Haki (his projection of intent), but Luffy's Haki does not seem to appear in any significant fashion in regards to his thought processes.

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

A question. Are you perfectly sure that this is character growth? If you can give a percentage of the possibilities, what would you give to the haki-based scenario? And, if you assigned a non-zero probability to it, what was the reasoning you used for that possibility?

Well, technically, everything is somewhat character growth, so any statistical representation would always lean toward character growth. That being said, and to get to your point, this scene was less to do with haki (at leats in regards to Luffy), and more to do with Luffy simply trying to find a way to get to Ace.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by james0246

You realize this defeats your point, right? If Luffy was using Haki to predetermine what would occur, then he should see both arms cut, not just one.

No. When you predict it can be completely different than what you would normally expect. So, him seeing one arm fits better in a haki-based scenario.

In the end, the visual of a cut arm was just that, a visual. It represented Luffy's thought process, not any specific foresight (beyond regular cause and effect thought patterns). Hell, the cut arm literally appears as a thought balloon above Luffy's head, which should be a clear visual metaphor for what Oda is trying to do.

At least our ideas intersect on the same emphasis. What was Oda trying to achieve when he was showing that scene? In my opinion, running away does not require any emphasis. And it could have achieved better results, to convince me for instance, if he were to see that when he decided to run away after seeing Kizaru, which happened some pages ago.

At best, this is a sequence of Mihawk's Haki (his projection of intent), but Luffy's Haki does not seem to appear in any significant fashion in regards to his thought processes.

Well, that is one of the scenarios I consider. Such as Mihawk's haki combined with Luffy's haki giving the result, or something along those lines. And, if we are talking about Mihawk's haki, wouldn't it be better to also include Luffy's to complete the flow.

Well, technically, everything is somewhat character growth, so any statistical representation would always lean toward character growth. That being said, and to get to your point, this scene was less to do with haki (at leats in regards to Luffy), and more to do with Luffy simply trying to find a way to get to Ace.

I guess that means you haven't thought in detail about the haki part. Anyways, it is still too early to make sure of that. Unless we get some kind of validation, with Luffy seeing one other scene, in the next few chapters....Or he specifically makes a much more detailed comment on that.

[Bonta Kun]

god Buggy is the just the win!

anyone that can make me laugh that much deserves his place in Anime hall of fame

Simply brilliant writing really, the war has kept its seriousness but at these moments still just makes you laugh your arse off

and given what Buggy sounds like in the anime, just kinda makes it all the more funnier. I just have a habit of thinking about the anime counterparts in these situations

[hkBattousai]

Originally Posted by SOGESNAKE

Mantra so far only has been seen with Skypians.

No. Snake Sisters used Mantra as well. I don't think any kind of Haki/Mantra be region specific. Mantra is also a kind of will power, anyone who has that kind of will should have Mantra.
And I think that Luffy is starting to learn Mantra, that's how he predicted Mihawk's attack. Count me in to the Mantra club.

[ThoHell]

Wow it finally happened. All those robots appeared. we wondered about them and now we were answered... at least strategy is more realistic in OP than Bleach and Naruto...

[Prestige]

Originally Posted by james0246

Wow, you guys are really stretching this (pun intended ). Luffy didn't see the future or read his opponents moves or their "intentions". He simply used his head and realized that stretching his arm against a swordsman of Mihawk's caliber would result in the loss of his limb. This is a pivotal character moment, but not a 'Haki' moment.

Yeah I support this theory aswell.

Luffy has always been stated as combat genious, although he is very simple minded and gullible outside combat.

I think he just used his head on this.

But when Luffy fought Blackbeard during Impel Down it was Blackbeard who commented that Luffy's haki has been improved, so I guess Luffy always releases small amounts of his haki during battles without being aware of it.

It does not give him mantra or let him hit logias but I guess it gives him passive threat and adds some spike to his attacks.

[Battler-kun]

Fantastic chapter!!
Mihawk in action! *_*
He sliced that huge icerberg without big effort and it was a clean cut!
But because of Luffy dodging all his attacks, as i have guessed, Mihawk's greatest weakness is his speed. Luffy didn't use gear2. With g2 he would have dodged every attack easily.

And Vista must be somewhat strong, blocking Mihawk's upcoming attack.

Pacifistas + X? will definitely turn the tables in favor of the WG.

[nicepace]

^how could you say luffy could dodge mihawk attack easily?...
luffy did use gear 2nd for the first time he meet mihawk... take a better look on the 2nd page he just in front of mihawk and in less than a second he already jumped away far enough but to bad that he is still at mihawk's range... and he did a gomu-gomu no jet scapegoat... and about to use jet bazoka befor he realized that his hand would be cutted if he did... he couldn't do all that thing without gear 2nd?!

Originally Posted by Prestige

Yeah I support this theory aswell.

Luffy has always been stated as combat genious, although he is very simple minded and gullible outside combat.

I think he just used his head on this.

But when Luffy fought Blackbeard during Impel Down it was Blackbeard who commented that Luffy's haki has been improved, so I guess Luffy always releases small amounts of his haki during battles without being aware of it.

It does not give him mantra or let him hit logias but I guess it gives him passive threat and adds some spike to his attacks.

if the extent use of haki can be use to predict the enemy movement (not seing the future) like the amazone lilly sister did predict all luffy attack/movement but not fast enough to catch luffy gear second....

I am seing the part when luffy though about his hand sliced is somehow without he is realized he use his haki and predict what will mihawk next attack/move...
....

Wha.. at last the pandaman have a bigger panel...

[james0246]

^Actually, I said that as well . If Haki is being used at all, then it is more believable if what we saw was Mihawk projecting his intention, rather than Luffy using Haki...

[Prestige]

Well Mihawk was not attempting to kill Luffy with 100% strenght, if he really would wanted to get Luffy killed he would cut down everything between Luffy and Mihawk.

If you know how hawks eyes work when they hunt down rabbits or such then it makes sense how Mihawks eyes were zoomed in one panel.

When hawk is searching for prey when its flying high above air it can zoom for small spot for incredible sight, hawk can see small mammal on grass even if its flying hundreds of meters above it.

Mihawk is literally 'hawk-eye' he just focused his sight past those goons when searching for Luffy and he proceeded to attack him. But still I think Mihawk was showing some kind of restraint in this chapter, he could just mercilessly cut all those guys who were on way.

I am pretty sure that there were haki involved in that fight but I dont really think that Luffy predicting that his hand would be cutted was nothing more but an insight and him using a common sense.