2012-10-06, 12:55 | Link #502 | |
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Anyways I think it's silly to judge a series based on the gender of the characters. What's ultimately important is how the characters are written regardless of gender.
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2012-10-06, 12:59 | Link #503 |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
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Yashiro a King? I wonder if he's truly one or is just really airheaded...
Also I wonder what is Kurou's relation with the previous 7th King... That heavy use of blue colouring and that artwork....need to stop comparing this to Mardock... BGM plus that visual gives a really soothing, dreamy feel to it though, so not bad there. As long as it does not go Guilty Crown IE attempt to pull a serious plot but end up an incoherent mess I'm fine, even if it's pure fanservice.
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Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2012-10-06 at 13:11. |
2012-10-06, 15:04 | Link #504 | ||
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Furthermore, I would argue that most of the best anime shows I have seen (Madoka Magica, Gurren Lagann, Steins;Gate, True Tears, Hyouka, etc...) chose to reveal a lot about its core characters right in the very first episode. So I think that it's generally better to show more than just "little glimpses" about core characters in early episodes. Quote:
You're right that K doesn't give anything except for action and visuals, which by extension means it lacks information. You raised Shinsekai Yori as a point of comparison, and it's true that the first episode of Shinsekai Yori has an ominous air of mystery surrounding its first episode. But even so, there's loads of dialogue in that first episode of Shinsekai Yori, there's lots of little plot details and hints sprinkled throughout (much of it in the dialogue), and we get a good feeling for most of the main cast members (certainly Saki and the two main boys) in the first episode. We don't really have that here in K. So in my view the difference basically comes down to Shinsekai Yori giving us more information than what K does. And with that more information comes a greater likelihood of gaining emotional investment in the characters, their story, and their setting.
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2012-10-06, 15:42 | Link #505 | |
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Also, I think we got a good feeling for most of the cast members? I mean, they seem to be pretty straightforward (I don't expect them to get much more complicated, with the exception of Black & White), mostly made up of clichés. Then again, comparing Shinsekai yori and K is pretty much a case of apples and oranges. The former is a "thinky" show based on a novel (not a light novel but an actual novel, even though it seems to fall into the YA category). The latter is the anime equivalent of a summer blockbuster. |
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2012-10-06, 16:05 | Link #506 | ||
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Perhaps you are saying misleading information is better than no information, maybe! But what I am saying is K can still possibly create interesting characters without telling us much about them in the first episode, if it slowly reveals things about them over time. I think the first episode ultimately failed for me because of the glaring way it tried to sell itself though. Quote:
Maybe Kuromitsu sums up the issue best, K is just trying to be a blockbuster, nothing more.
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2012-10-06, 16:26 | Link #507 | |
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It's not necessarily a problem for a show to go with a "pure spectacle" approach to its first episode. If the show can pull that off (and K definitely can) then maybe that's fine.
But I have seen a lot of mixed reaction to K, both here and on the anime blogosphere. The "confusing" criticism comes up a lot, and I'm trying to explain where that viewer reaction is probably coming from since other viewers didn't find the episode confusing at all. It's not so much a case of the episode being hard to follow - No, it's not hard to follow. But people are "confused" on what we're supposed to take from it, and that goes back to the "why?" question. If K gets a bit more in-depth about things in the next episode or two then that's fine, but I can see why people were "confused" by this first episode. Quote:
Even so, that initial information on the characters gives the viewer something to latch onto. And as an aside, not all of that information is overturned. Kaname Madoka's character, for example, is pretty clear from the very first episode of PMMM, and she doesn't change that much, imo. I would argue that the best character building (at least for main protagonists) isn't very slowly pulling back the curtain, but rather giving us solid characterization from the very beginning and showing us how that character changes and develops over time.
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2012-10-06, 16:35 | Link #508 | |
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In Steins Gate I was thinking of a lot of the side characters who didn't necessarily "change" but who became more than stereotypes by the end of the series based on what we learned about them. Although I think we can agree there is more than one way to build a character.
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Last edited by Kirarakim; 2012-10-06 at 17:12. |
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2012-10-06, 16:48 | Link #509 | ||
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And the "slowly pulls back the curtain" approach is fine, and probably even ideal, for side characters like the ones in Steins;Gate that you alluded to. But I think that your main character is somebody that the audience should have a real feel for after even just the first episode. And what do we know about K's main character? That's not just a rhetorical question, by the way, as it would be interesting to see what the biggest fans of this show can say about him. Quote:
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2012-10-06, 17:45 | Link #510 | ||||
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I'm sure there are people who don't like this kind of storytelling, and prefer to know as much as possible at any given point. But there are other ways of storytelling which are also perfectly valid. Quote:
From what I've read in this thread, I think the whole thingbasically comes down to personal preferences. Some people strongly prefer one type of storytelling and characterization, others prefer different methods, or don't feel strongly about any method in particular so they aren't bothered. Quote:
Clichéd? You bet. But it's not like we know nothing about him (quite the contrary, it's like we already know him because he's such a cliché). Same with everyone else: while they haven't had as much screen time as Shiro, we already had pretty good indications as to what sort of characters they are, and frankly I'll be very surprised (positively) if the show goes against my expectations... ETA: Forgot to mention: Shiro may appear harmless, but he's more cunning than he seems. He also seems to have a laid-back side. In general, he seems to be pretty "my pace." ETA#2: Also, he likes cats. (so he can't be a bad guy!) Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-10-06 at 18:11. |
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2012-10-06, 18:11 | Link #511 | |||||
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I do think there are certain "best practices" when it comes to good writing. Now there are exceptions, and K might be one, but I do think it's generally best to give viewers a reason to care about a main character right from the very first episode. Quote:
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And it may well end up being extremely trope-esque, but we don't know that. So it's not something that a viewer can truly latch on to, imo. What do we truly, definitely know about this male lead? I'll grant you seemingly harmless and affable. But there's very little beyond that, imo.
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2012-10-06, 18:19 | Link #512 | |
Hiding Under Your Bed
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Not that I'm saying K is going to be a pleasant surprise. I'm fairly confident on what K is, even with only one episode to go off of.
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2012-10-06, 18:58 | Link #514 | |||
Just... disturbed.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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In fact I think this anime may be obeying more to the classic, old-fashioned Smurfette Principle. Quote:
But yes, I agree that more dialogue may be better. Though I guess the first episode was really there to stun people with its epic visuals. Bringing dialogue in will dilute it, so they're saving it for later. Anyway, right now what I enjoyed about the anime was the clear non-black-and-whiteness of the story. K's episode 1 tends to paint Homura as the "bad guys" and SCEPTER4 (or whatever number it is, I forgot) as the "good guys". But at the same time, the members of Homura feel a lot more human with a stronger sense of comradeship (especially in K: Memory of Red) than anyone else does. It's not just some "good vs evil" show, so at least for that I'm sticking to it.
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2012-10-06, 19:21 | Link #517 | ||||||
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But what exactly do you want to latch onto as a viewer if not your impressions of the characters? Cold, hard facts only? Quote:
And given that he's the center of one of the mysteries of the show it's just natural that we don't know everything about him. He seems to be just an Ordinary High School Student but he's involved with something big, he's Special, and we'll learn the rest as we go along. |
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2012-10-06, 19:23 | Link #518 | |
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So what do you think makes for good writing, and what do you think makes for bad writing? Is everything equally well-written? If not, what makes the difference between best writing, next best writing, average writing, bad writing, etc...?
Is any approach at all to writing perfectly acceptable? Every craft has basic standards for what constitutes good craftsmanship. Writing is, at least to some degree, a craft. One thing I should clarify here, though, is... Quote:
And yeah, your avatar does connect to a very instructive anime here, lol. Anyway, I've debated this as much as I care to. I do thank you for your list of shows though. Most of them I haven't seen, so maybe I'll check them out. Ultimately, K's first episode was fine for what it is.
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2012-10-06, 19:32 | Link #519 | |
Nonsense!
Join Date: Feb 2010
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action, bishonen, fantasy, gang, supernatural |
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