One Piece - Chapter 559 (manga)

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

That would have been the case, if we hadn't observed Mihawk's actions against Whitebeard. To see how far he has come in total fighting strength compared to the strongest man in the world. It wasn't about swords at all.

That is certainly true, but my point was that Mihawk had already been set up as the absolute greatest in terms of swordsmanship since the very beginning. To have someone suddenly show up that is superior to him would greatly undermine the importance of his next inevitable duel with Zoro. He would merely be regarded as another stepping stone like all of Zoro's past opponents, and we know that Mihawk is much more special than that.

[andy]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

That is certainly true, but my point was that Mihawk had already been set up as the absolute greatest in terms of swordsmanship since the very beginning. To have someone suddenly show up that is superior to him would greatly undermine the importance of his next inevitable duel with Zoro. He would merely be regarded as another stepping stone like all of Zoro's past opponents, and we know that Mihawk is much more special than that.

I guess the only person i can think off is the latest member of BB crew. If he some how beat mihawk , there by becoming strongest swordsman in the world . So the set up would be Luffy beating BB to become PK and zoro beating him to become great swordsman in the world.
It could work i guess since we know he pretty strong already.
That is if BB and his crew are the final bosses of OP.

[Scion]

I would like to see Hancock be sort of like Vivi and travel with the Strawhats for a while and teach them haki. Once some ppl have it mastered, she should just go back to Amazon Lily

Also if Rayleigh has a name like King of Hell, etc. What would Roger's be, before 'Pirate King' of course?

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

That is certainly true, but my point was that Mihawk had already been set up as the absolute greatest in terms of swordsmanship since the very beginning. To have someone suddenly show up that is superior to him would greatly undermine the importance of his next inevitable duel with Zoro. He would merely be regarded as another stepping stone like all of Zoro's past opponents, and we know that Mihawk is much more special than that.

Rayleigh did show up. So, who knows who else can show up.

Also, if the now in the story is a crucial time that would signal big changes in the world, then those old forgotten names from the past may appear to resume their active lives. If Oda's statements about the strengths do omit such people, then the moment such character appears, the title may automatically go back to him (e.g., the strongest swordsman to have ever lived and such). Considering that Mihawk was more or less an equal of Shanks in the old days, Roger might have a crew member that should go above both of them, around that time.

Anyways, I don't mind Mihawk losing before he meets Zoro, as long as the opponent is another destined one for him. At the least, it may give a better perspective to Zoro. Since right now, he may be the most independent member of the crew compared to the rest.

[DJ Trouble]

If Mihawk lost, it would need to be in a private battle so that no one, or only a select few, know about it. Fast forward to Zoro fighting and beating Mihawk, then suddenly Mihawk says "You are now the Strongest Swordsman in the World . . . is what I'd like to say, but I was beaten a month ago by <insert badass samurai>. You'll have to beat him if you want to prove your worth. Be warned. He's 9000 times stronger than me." Or something like that . . .

[Slayerx]

Heh, I remember tossing about the possibility that Shanks had actually managed to surpass Mihawk without him ever realizing it because Mihawk refused to fight someone who is handicapped...

Zoro beats mihawk, but feels somehow empty inside... he ends up having a clash with shanks and realizes "there was another"... then insert some drama about Luffy not wanted Zoro and Shanks to fight, so that we can bring up what Zoro told Luffy when he joined the crew "don't get in the way of my dream"... and it's goes on from there

Really, if mihawk is gonna be beaten or anything, then i REALLY don't want it to be someone new... that would feel just wrong to me... gotta be someone we already know and has been around for a LONG time in the story... granted that would include only Shanks and Tashigi... though Tashigi would be a hell of a twist =p

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

Rayleigh did show up. So, who knows who else can show up.

Also, if the now in the story is a crucial time that would signal big changes in the world, then those old forgotten names from the past may appear to resume their active lives. If Oda's statements about the strengths do omit such people, then the moment such character appears, the title may automatically go back to him (e.g., the strongest swordsman to have ever lived and such). Considering that Mihawk was more or less an equal of Shanks in the old days, Roger might have a crew member that should go above both of them, around that time.

Anyways, I don't mind Mihawk losing before he meets Zoro, as long as the opponent is another destined one for him. At the least, it may give a better perspective to Zoro. Since right now, he may be the most independent member of the crew compared to the rest.

Based on what we know, Mihawk's swordsmanship skills are second to none (he was labeled as the world's strongest swordsman in his debut). However, there are other powerful sword wielders in the One Piece universe, such as Rayleigh and Shanks. The question we have to ask ourselves here is if Rayleigh and Shanks are strictly (meaning only) swordsman. While there is not sufficient information for Shanks at the moment, we can speculate further about Rayleigh.

Rayleigh's nickname is "Hades King" or "King of Hell". To me at least, that strongly implies that he has an additional set of skills aside from swordsmanship. Otherwise, why else would he have that nickname? So, while Rayleigh may not be as skillful of a swordsman as Mihawk, he has other abilities to compensate for the inferiority in that category (swordsmanship). That being said, it is entirely possible that Rayleigh is more powerful overall than Mihawk.

In terms of fighting styles, Zoro is strictly a swordsman. As far as we're concerned, he's only interested in becoming the greatest swordsman in the world, not the strongest man in the world. Mihawk already acknowledged that the path to becoming the pirate king is more difficult than surpassing him, but those obstacles are for Luffy to overcome in the future, not Zoro. Some of those obstacles may be sword wielders, but their swordsmanship skills would not be on par with those of Mihawk.

[Hiking_Bear]

Originally Posted by Lightmgl

Or Doflamingo is controlling him, thats always a possibility. The odds of him being punished after Kizaru's report are quite high, I'm sure something has happened to Kuma even if it was just Vegapunk making sure he erased the remainder of Kuma's memory.

I also think that Kuma was punished after the Shabondy incident. I remember that Kuma had told Luffy (right before he paw-pawed him to Boa's island) that they would not meet again. I wouldn't be surprised if Dr Vegapunk installed a fail-safe mechanism inside Kuma to destroy his mind permanently if he ever defied the world government.

[marvelB]

^Adding on to that, recall that after Kuma had whispered whatever it was he had to say to Rayleigh he specifically told him that he was putting himself at risk by appearing at Sabaody. So yeah, it's definitely a good bet that Vegapunk or whoever completely brainwashed him to become a perfect weapon of mass destruction for the government.....

[C.A.]

I agree that Kuma has been brainwashed and its exactly what he means when he told Luffy that they will never meet again. Seeing how quiet he is after the Shabondy arc, he looks like he has become a perfect Pacifista.

He probably helped the Strawhats one last time on his own will for Dragon, he knew that he will stop being himself from then on.

[Talendra]

While at the moment the brain-washing possibility seems to be the only reasonable explanation for the kuma-mystery-fragments oda gave us, it still raises the question: why did he allow a extremely powerful tool like himself not only to get lost for dragons side, but to serve the enemy from that point on?

With his abilities, he should have been able to escape this kind of punishment if he really wanted...

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by The Small One

The more important question is: Why did someone like Doflamingo, who definately isn't trustworthy, know about this?

Ya, this is part of why i think Kuma has been dead for YEARS... I can't see reason why they would tell Doflamingo right after they did it; he's too untrustworthy... you could argue that he figured it out himself in the past week, but i don't see it happening because i would think that it would take more than a week for him to suspect something was different about Kuma and thus spark his curiosity... More likely it would be the case that after years of serving the gov't and noting Kuma's loyalty to the gov't, THAT would spark his curiosity enough for him to look into Kuma... which would lead him to finding out about the Pacifista project and finding out that that death is part of the process...

People note that Kuma has not said anything, but Kuma isn't exactly a chatterbox... not to mention he still has the bible, which would be a rather personal item... if he had died in the last week, i would expect certain changes in his behavior such as having no attachment to that book.


But ofcourse, there are certain things that can't be ignored like his conversation with raylieh and his past connections to the revolutionary army... afterall, being one of Dragon's subordinates seems like the only reason he would chat with Raylieh and send the strawhats away; and yet here we have Kuma attacking and old friend and a revolutionary... granted though, on the otherhand, him attacking Iva could be a ruse to maintain appearances; afterall, the WG already has enough reason to suspect him of treason

[AddiKtioNn-BlaCk]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Rayleigh's nickname is "Hades King" or "King of Hell". To me at least, that strongly implies that he has an additional set of skills aside from swordsmanship. Otherwise, why else would he have that nickname? So, while Rayleigh may not be as skillful of a swordsman as Mihawk, he has other abilities to compensate for the inferiority in that category (swordsmanship). That being said, it is entirely possible that Rayleigh is more powerful overall than Mihawk.

Not to throw a wrench in your comments but Zoro current name "Pirate Hunter Zoro" doesn't refer to his swordsmanship at all, yet he is still a swordsmen. Zoro has also been to shown to be able to incarnate a demon spirit with the power of his spirit alone, so people can (for example) start calling him Demon God Zoro or something similar. So names doesn't neccesarily refer to a different set of skills, but I do agree with you though, at least I'm hopinh Rayleigh has a different set of skills, if not that's also cool as well.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

People note that Kuma has not said anything, but Kuma isn't exactly a chatterbox... not to mention he still has the bible, which would be a rather personal item... if he had died in the last week, i would expect certain changes in his behavior such as having no attachment to that book.

Kuma's attachment to the Bible, made me think that Dragon's revolution may be religion-based and while I don't have anything against religion, I'm hoping that's not the case.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by The Small One

The more important question is: Why did someone like Doflamingo, who definately isn't trustworthy, know about this?

Not only knowing, but also knowing something that had happened during the last few days, when the WG should be extremely careful about what they are doing and planning. I have the same concerns.

About his words to Luffy. Those can be anything. Maybe he didn't want Luffy to get involved with the WG-Whitebeard fight, and maybe he is planning to sacrifice himself to save Ace if it becomes necessary. Who knows! There are many possibilities.

[cheese4u]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

Not only knowing, but also knowing something that had happened during the last few days, when the WG should be extremely careful about what they are doing and planning. I have the same concerns.

About his words to Luffy. Those can be anything. Maybe he didn't want Luffy to get involved with the WG-Whitebeard fight, and maybe he is planning to sacrifice himself to save Ace if it becomes necessary. Who knows! There are many possibilities.

If you have enough power, its not difficult to gather intel on certain people. Unless of course this was supposed to be top secret, but there's no evidence of that.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk

Kuma's attachment to the Bible, made me think that Dragon's revolution may be religion-based and while I don't have anything against religion, I'm hoping that's not the case.

Religion...? Kuma's book is simply his Operation Manual....

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by cheese4u

If you have enough power, its not difficult to gather intel on certain people. Unless of course this was supposed to be top secret, but there's no evidence of that.

For that to happen, WG should have made a lot of mistakes consecutively, for instance, a combination of many versions of the one they did with Boa.

[cheese4u]

Originally Posted by Fipskuul

For that to happen, WG should have made a lot of mistakes consecutively, for instance, a combination of many versions of the one they did with Boa.

With all of Don D's connections it wouldn't be insane to think that he'd have a man on the inside, especially with all the corrupt marines out there. Or Kuma could've told Don himself, afterall he did tell Zoro, so I don't think its a big secret for him.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by cheese4u

If you have enough power, its not difficult to gather intel on certain people. Unless of course this was supposed to be top secret, but there's no evidence of that.

Well, part of the question is "why would Doflamingo be gathering new intel on Kuma in the first place"... any info he might have wanted he would have looked into it a long time ago. If he already had a good amount of info on a person he would need a reason to go looking for something new... in this case, he would have had to figure out that something was different about Kuma to spark his curiosity and make him look to see if anything new had happened to him

Having an inside man reporting any and all changes is indeed plausible. but the deeper you go the less likely you find a traitor amongst the WG staff... in this case, Doflamingo would need to have someone near Vegapunk who is likely one of the gov't's most top secret individual

[Rurik]

Have to say that my favorite part was when Hanckock Saved luffy! I dig LuffyXBoa thing, just because is silly!