Kanon - Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Kagikkos only)

[xris]

This thread is for the experienced Kanon viewer (of either the Game and/or the original Kanon 2002 series), its purpose is to allow free discussion of theories and speculation over the new Kanon 2006 series, it therefore will contain unmarked spoilers. If you are a first time viewer of Kanon 2006, then do not read this thread unless you want to be spoiled (use the Kanon - Speculation & Theories thread).

Since posters are expected to be familiar with the game and/or original series, there is no real need for spoiler tags, but feel free to include them if you so wish.

If you don't know how to use a spoiler tag, please read the BB Code FAQ.

Spoiler tag examples
[spoiler] Text to be hidden [/spoiler] becomes

Spoiler:

Text to be hidden

[spoiler=subject title] Text to be hidden [/spoiler] becomes

Spoiler for subject title:

Text to be hidden

Finally, please remain on-topic and do not use this thread if it's just discussion about the current or previous episodes. If you want to speculate or theorize over jam, be it Akiko's or otherwise, please post in the What the heck is in Akiko's jam!? thread

[Shiroth]

Might as well kick start things~

Episode 09 is titled

Spoiler:

'Lullaby of a Fox Cub'.

Of course we shouldn't start jumping to conclusions, but maybe the reason why we've been getting so much Makoto love is because her story shall end pretty soon. It makes sense when thinking about what Mai said to Yuuichi in episode 05.

[New/Old]

Spoiler for I have to be careful for those who may have missed the first post's warning. I take the fault for not being able to be vague.:

Yes. It would make sense... But I do agree with not jumping to conclusions. The title is only specific in that it will most likely be a Makoto centered episode and that it'll probably reveal the fact that Makoto is a fox.

After all, Episode 5 was 'Demon's Serenade'. This was merely in revealing that Mai was a hunter of demons (at least to new viewers) with nothing more than that said on the subject and properly introducing Mai.

Well. Just gotta wait, eh. I'll be looking forward to see how the next couple of episodes turn out and if it may lead to the conclusion of Makoto's story.

[Meophist]

So we can speculate about the ending here? It's one of the big unknowns about this series so far.

[orion]

Remember, 1st timers don't read this.

Spoiler:

Well, we could wait to see how Makoto is handled first. Mai is being used to advance Makoto's path and if she does bite the dust within 2-3 episodes of 9, we need to see how far they got in Mai's path and how they are dealing with Mai imo.

If they slam us in Makoto's path, then that may give us a clue as to how the others are going to be dealt with also imo.

Mai, Ayu and Nayuki's paths are linked apparently. Isn't Shiori's path another independent path?

[Skane]

Oh thank goodness! I sometimes felt as though I was going to explode from not being able to discuss about the stuff I wanted to discuss about regarding Kanon.
~~~~ ~~~~

Spoiler:

With regards to Ep09, I do not think it will be the resolution to Makoto's arc. KyoAni did say that they want to integrate the five storylines into one, and to conclude Makoto's arc before the halfway point of the series would seem premature and contradictory to their statements.

Besides... Makoto has not started degenerating yet, we have not seen Mishio yet, she has not run away yet, lullabies have nothing to do with weddings, etc...

I believe Ep09 will be the start of the end of Makoto's storyline.

Cheers.

[orion]

But ....

Spoiler for Skane's spoiler:

Makoto has started to degenerate imo. If you can knock a guy down with one punch, then you should be able to carry a box up 1 flight of stairs. She was unable to complete that task in ep. 4. Maybe ep. 9 is the mid-point for recognizing the reason for the degeneration. Mai does say in the preview for ep. 6 roughly, "Soon she will be needing you more than anyone else." . I assumed that it was a reference to Makoto.

[xris]

Originally Posted by Meophist

So we can speculate about the ending here? It's one of the big unknowns about this series so far.

You may speculate over any aspect of Kanon, so you may post your theories about the ending if you so wish.

If anyone does want to use spoiler tags, then it's very helpful if you include a subject title in the spoiler tag.

[spoiler=subject title] Text to be hidden [/spoiler] becomes

Spoiler for subject title:

Text to be hidden

[Skane]

Originally Posted by orion

But ....

Spoiler for Skane's spoiler:

Makoto has started to degenerate imo. If you can knock a guy down with one punch, then you should be able to carry a box up 1 flight of stairs. She was unable to complete that task in ep. 4. Maybe ep. 9 is the mid-point for recognizing the reason for the degeneration. Mai does say in the preview for ep. 6 roughly, "Soon she will be needing you more than anyone else." . I assumed that it was a reference to Makoto.

I believe that was just creative foreshadowing on KyoAni's part. We still have a long, long way to go with Makoto's story( unless they go flat out with Makoto ONLY for the next few episodes, which is contradictory to their pledge of integrating the storylines). Makoto's storyline is pretty straightforward, but not that short or simple.

Cheers.

[Vexx]

It looks like Makoto will not

Spoiler:

"suddenly go downhill" ... it'll be a *long* subtle degradation of health which makes it more likely the other characters won't notice something is wrong for quite a long time (as with the first time viewers). If they pull that off, it'll make her finale that much more convincing and the viewer will already have a pretty good idea that this story has supernatural elements. I had to watch Kanon2002 a couple of times to figure what the hell was going on with Makoto because it was so truncated (like Mai and hell like most of the stories... so truncated that I was occasionally saying "okay I'm supposed to be sad but what the hell just happened?")

[npal]

I was pretty sad with Makoto's arc, I think it was the saddest part of the 2k2 Kanon. The other arc was Nayuki's, and Ayu's before she miraculously rose from the dead.

[Vexx]

Aye.... I'm just going to stop talking about the 2002 version at this point because I have a suspicion that this version will move it into the dustbin on story interpretation alone (much less the animation differences). Other than a nod to locations and visual references, KyoAni seems to be focusing on the source story material though it remains to be seen how they will integrate some of it.

Anyway, so far I've been delighted with the interpretation and thread-weaving of the story. It looks like each thread is going to get full play (though it is fascinating to watch how some of it interweaves). Some of the threads may require tweaking though to make them fit and I'm interested to see how they accomplish that.

I think most *literate* fans are holding their breath to see if KyoAni "AIR-izes" the plot instead of just following the TOEI plot line (in other words... just how tragic are things going to get?)

[Meophist]

For Kanon, I think it might be interesting if they go for a no-ending route, in that the show ends before the story ends, leaving the viewers to guess what possible ending is the actual ending for the show. They can even leave enough clues to determine the actual ending, but not actually show it.

[orion]

If that happens, could you imagine all the Ayu and Nayuki fans storming the place? Oh, the carnage.

But npal, she was never dead from the beginning of ep. 1.

Or we could have the "Air" ending. Everyone dies and Nayuki sends him off on the train. Yuichi holding the good luck charm saying, "I'll always be with her..."

[Vexx]

The narrator's situation was one of the "weak" points of the first anime.... how everyone might think/assume she was no more and then have Nayuki discover her at the end.... or did I misread that sequence?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Vexx

The narrator's situation was one of the "weak" points of the first anime.... how everyone might think/assume she was no more and then have Nayuki discover her at the end.... or did I misread that sequence?

I'm assuming you're talking about the narration sequences before the OP? It was cryptic on purpose, exactly as it is in the new version; I thought that was one of the "better" points. It relied on people connecting the dots between the show's opening scene (looking out a window in a white room with the heart monitor beeping) and all the hints in the pre-OP sequences. It's one of those things you only figure out completely having seen the end and then you can look back (or watch again) and say "oh... now it all makes perfect sense". So, I consider that to be a good thing, as it added to the continuity and unity of the central plot. If not for those sequences, I imagine the ending would have seemed to have come out of nowhere; as it was, the ending just confirmed what the pre-OP sequences were alluding to from the very start. Unless you were referring to something else...?

[orion]

Spoiler for hospital room comparison:

Just like in the old version, the hospital and the hospital room made its appearances early to be forgotten in the later stages of the anime.

[Skane]

Okay, I think there has been enough forewarning in the earlier posts. No more spoiler tags from me from here on.

Originally Posted by orion

If that happens, could you imagine all the Ayu and Nayuki fans storming the place? Oh, the carnage.

But npal, she was never dead from the beginning of ep. 1.

Or we could have the "Air" ending. Everyone dies and Nayuki sends him off on the train. Yuuichi holding the good luck charm saying, "I'll always be with her..."

Oh, but she CAN die. The only reason why the little chibi keeps on ticking is because of her promise to wait for Yuuichi( years and years of waiting). Once that promise is fulfilled, she can either choose to use up her last promise to stay alive( and let the other girls/ladies croak), or sacrifice herself to save another( can we say Akiko?).

I always felt that Toei's version of Ayu's ending was too happy. Kanon's story has a huge potential to be an emotional carnage. Every main character, with the sole exception of Nayuki( because Akiko took the fall for her), has the potential to die in this story.

As I said in an earlier post made by me on another thread, I personally think it would be beautiful if after Ayu's awakening, Ayu chooses to use up her last promise to save someone and finally departs from the mortal world after clinging to her promise with Yuuichi for seven years.

That way, it will not cheapen her 'first' disappearance/death scene. In my opinion of course.

Cheers.

[VRMN]

Originally Posted by Skane

As I said in an earlier post made by me on another thread, I personally think it would be beautiful if after Ayu's awakening, Ayu chooses to use up her last promise to save someone and finally departs from the mortal world after clinging to her promise with Yuuichi for seven years.

That way, it will not cheapen her 'first' disappearance/death scene. In my opinion of course.

As much as I like Ayu, I agree. Toei's "happy ending" version just seemed...out of place. I saw where it came from (perfect ending of the game *assumption - I never played it*), but all the same, it seriously diverted from the flow of the plot.

Seriously, it seemed all too obvious she was really dead, but...I don't expect to see that aspect of the show change. The sad ending is certainly a possibility, of course, but I don't see it happening. But we shall see.

[Rich]

i have a question for y'all..... sooo.. this was taken from Episode 4 discussion

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Rich, do you REALLY want to know the answer?

Spoiler:

Because in order to answer, it's a really big spoiler.

Spoiler:

Last chance, and I'll give you a hint: it's the same reason why Ayu does not have a phone number, does not know what the heck a cellphone is, has some stores really mixed up even though she's supposed to be a native, and is confused by big words

Spoiler:

It's been a while since I saw Kanon 2k2, but IIRC, the real Ayu is lying in a coma for the past 7 years bedridden in the hospital shown in the first episode, and the Ayu we're seeing is her dream self manifested in reality. Thus since the Ayu that's shown right now is all but an apparition, hygiene doesn't really apply to her. And since she hasn't been awake for 7 years, much less been school in that period, she's a bit errr... unwise in the ways of the world.

i've also watched the old school kanon, but i believe i don't remember Ayu lying in a coma, i thought she died...?