2008-08-14, 01:39 | Link #61 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Now I must say, people are blowing my points out of proportion and are not even understanding what I wrote. So if I did a bad post, I apologize. However, I hope I can clear up some things. Quote:
However, my point was that there was no expressed racism in this photo that we can deduct from it. I do not see malicious intent. People are making too big of a deal about it. It is fair to ask questions, but jumping the gun and calling them idiots and racists is a little too much. Quote:
The person who made that genocide joke was not a friend of mine, it was a joke my brother heard in UCLA from a guest speaker who was talking to an auditorium of about two or three hundred people. And please do not lecture me about such things as if I am ignorant of such facts. I am well aware of the deep political correctness in the U.S. which I personally think is damaging our country's freedom. I am not brave enough to test it out at all.
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2008-08-14, 01:48 | Link #62 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
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It seems like the only ones blowing this out of proportion are the ones defending it.
It was offensive. There wasn't even a joke involved, they just pulled their eyes to the side with no reason or humor. Most of all, it was stupid. I doubt the athletes intended to insult anyone, but they were stupid and the person who came up with the idea was really stupid. However, it is no big deal and will soon be forgotten (except by the people who want to defend it). |
2008-08-14, 02:38 | Link #63 | |
Toyosaki Aki
Scanlator
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Please don't simply defend with what the players have to say for themselves after being crucified by the global media. Faking ignorance is clearly not going to cut it. Especially since we have one person from Spain and another from Portugal personally testifying that the Spanish are not the most racially tolerant people at the moment. Racial integration isn't something that comes within a few decades. I suspect that Spain, like many European countries, are relatively new to mass immigration. As a US citizen, you should know that integration isn't complete in a country that has been strongly multi-racial since it's inception. Even now, many cities like SF are divided into ethnic neighborhoods.
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2008-08-14, 09:19 | Link #64 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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What I am wondering is why this happened with Spain and now is known worldwide...but what happened with this?:
http://estaticos01.jjoo.marca.com/20...18698005_1.jpg I don't remember anyone saying anything about this in that time. Now to the point, did you guys know that the photo was for an AD? The Spain-Chinese Connection It turns out, as we spoke upon in an earlier article, that the ad was done for a Chinese company. In fact, it was Li Ning’s sports apparel company, which is apparently huge in China. According to this, Li Ning’s company has a sponsorship contract with the Spanish National Team until 2012, so the ties between the Spanish National Team and China go further than a simple marketing shot, as many may assume. And what's more, the ones who decided how the photo and the poses should be WERE CHINESE. I think people are not being fair. Spain is racist, I agree, like EVERY COUNTRY. No more, no less. |
2008-08-14, 11:27 | Link #65 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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And ok, fair enough. What may not seem offensive to me is offensive to others. I don't see it, perhaps you guys do. But it really is impossible to know what their intentions were for sure, unless you truly believe the words of the basketball team. Just to make things clear, I'm not saying that the basketball team can't be racist, I'm just saying how "I" don't see the clear racism in this photo. For all I know we could be looking at some of the most intolerant people in the world. @wide12 That is certainly interesting, wouldn't something like this usually be brought up?
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2008-08-14, 11:39 | Link #66 | |
what Yagi said
Join Date: Mar 2008
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http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/bei...yhoo&type=lgns The company that wanted them to slant their eyes was Seur, a Spanish courier company. Li Ning is just one of the many sponsers of their team, but they were not the ones doing the advertisement in question. Or telling them how to pose. That was strictly Spanish. |
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2008-08-14, 12:13 | Link #67 | ||||||
Gregory House
IT Support
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2008-08-14, 12:39 | Link #68 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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It's obvious that's for the advertisement, not for racist purporses. The point here might be that making slant eyes is considered racist in some countries (U.S.A ? U.K?) however, on the contrary, it doesn't mean anything at all in other countries. What's more, the only ones who are talking about all this racism thing are not even chinese (nor asian). I still haven't read anything from China about this matter, so I don't why would there be a problem. |
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2008-08-14, 12:52 | Link #69 | |
what Yagi said
Join Date: Mar 2008
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What do you want the Chinese to do? Make an official statement? Front page on the China Daily? The media is controlled largely by government as well. But, if you go to Chinese message boards and blogs (and the Chinese are huge forum and blog addicts), it's being talked about. It's not a gesture of hate, it's just a joke to amuse the people of Spain at the expense of the Chinese done in bad taste. Even Pau Gasol understands it. |
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2008-08-14, 12:58 | Link #70 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 28° 37', North ; 77° 13', East
Age: 33
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Look in the end, whether its actually 'racist' or not doesnt matter. It couldve been about a number of things, and it wouldnt have mattered. It was just a stupid idea that would upset a lot of people, and will be remembered as such, come on, no matter how much anyone tries to justify it, its obvious that people would be upset about it. Whether theyre narrow-minded and silly to be upset or not in the first place is not the issue, the fact that they did is - its a sensitive issue today for whatever reason. |
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2008-08-14, 13:01 | Link #71 | |
Gregory House
IT Support
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2008-08-14, 13:13 | Link #72 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 28° 37', North ; 77° 13', East
Age: 33
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I think were arguing about two different things. I agree that these policies which are supposed to be 'anti-racist' can be racist. What I'm saying on the other hand, is that those policies are not in place simply to fight racism. infact, its just coincidence more than anything that the divisions in this scenario are by race at all. Policies like that are stupid if the only intention was to fight racism, but thats just not the case |
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2008-08-14, 13:19 | Link #73 | |
Gregory House
IT Support
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2008-08-14, 13:25 | Link #74 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 28° 37', North ; 77° 13', East
Age: 33
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Unfortunately, like i said above, not very long ago that was the case, and thats when the laws were introduced. There most certainly were economic divisions according to race, among many other things. The fact of the matter is, when economic divisions like those exist, its terribly difficult to break out of them . politically, governments try to gain support and face by giving provisions to minorities - a lot of governments do, and there is point to it. Not just that, treating minorities badly is looked down very badly internationally, and does actually affect relations between countries, i.e India and Sri Lanka with respect to the LTTE.The third reason is aiding integration and discouraging racism - which, when racism is/was prevelant, certainly did work. In fact, I'm sure there are plenty more reasons. Policies like those arnt nearly as stupid as they seem.
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2008-08-14, 13:33 | Link #75 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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“One of our sponsors asked us to pose with a ‘wink’ to our participation in Beijing, we made an oriental expression with our eyes. We felt it was something appropriate, and that it would be interpreted as an affectionate gesture,” Calderon wrote on his ElMundo.es blog. “Without a doubt, some …didn’t see it that way.” What evidence do you have? Why would Spanish people be amused? By the way you still haven't comment on what I said: This is not considered as an act of racism in a lot of countries. That's what I think you fail to understand. What I am trying to say it's that they did not mean any offense, nor they thought it could be an act of racism. I do understand that in the U.S.A , you'd see this as 100% racism, because it seems that's what people do there when they try to make fun of an asian person. But that doesn't happen in other countries. I am not saying that what they do was good nor bad. I just think they are being utterly criticised, and it's not fair to them. I mean I'd have understood if the newspaper just talked about this matter, but they didn't even question what their intention was, and moreover, they even brought up some other cases that happened in Spain. From what I see, they intended from the beggining to "attack, destroy, and kill". Some more info: “We don’t think this is an insulting gesture to the Chinese,” said Frank Zhang, Li Ning’s director of government and public affairs. “In fact, the gesture shows that the Spanish team is so humorous, relaxing and cute. They sat around a dragon pattern, which we think showed respect to the Chinese. Last edited by wide12; 2008-08-14 at 13:36. Reason: forgot to add some info |
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2008-08-14, 13:33 | Link #76 |
Ultimate Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Francisco
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Bad judgement by the Spain. Racist interpretation by everyone else.
I would like to believe that no one is stupid enough to mock another culture preceding the Olympic event. But if it was a "racist" picture then they are retarded and a bunch of idiots. EDIT: my friend just inform me that they refuse to officially apologize. t(o_ot) Last edited by bbduece; 2008-08-14 at 14:27. |
2008-08-14, 13:58 | Link #77 | |||
what Yagi said
Join Date: Mar 2008
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"It was something like supposed to be funny or something but never offensive in any way," said Spain center Pau Gasol http://www.startribune.com/sports/ol...D3aPc:_Yyc:aUU Funny = amusing So why is it funny? It's not racism, but the sponser intended it to be funny. Quote:
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And of course the Li Ning spokesperson will try to do PR work. That's what he's paid for. On the popular Sina.com website in China, many people were angered by the photo. "This gesture is a way of laughing at Asians," one person wrote. "It's racial discrimination for sure," added another. But others said they didn't understand what all the fuss was about. On another website, one person said: "I don't get it. What's supposed to be offensive? Is it that badly drawn dragon in the middle?" http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...ijing2008/home Like I said before, at the very best, it's more puzzling to Chinese people. It's not like they are laughing at the picture, even though it's supposed to be funny. It's not amusing to them, just puzzling. So who is it supposed to be funny for? |
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2008-08-14, 14:21 | Link #78 | |
Ultimate Coordinator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: San Francisco
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2008-08-14, 14:26 | Link #79 | |
Gregory House
IT Support
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The quoted P&T episode hit the nail on the head with the "insensibility training" suggestion.
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2008-08-14, 14:30 | Link #80 | ||
what Yagi said
Join Date: Mar 2008
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And some of the players have already apologized, especially the face of the team, Pau Gasol. No need to blow it up even more. Quote:
You're 19, still so young. You are obviously an intelligent person, but lighten up, it's a shame to be so cynical about the world and its issues at your age. |
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