Code Geass R2 - Overall Series Impressions & Total Series Rating

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

@sky
i know its epic fail
but the reason i was making such a comperasion is becouse people tend to just IGNORE the stuff he did
he wasnt MEAN to people
he wasnt treating them unfairly
he was massacring them left and right
its not something i can just write out

I do not forget what he did. He did shit a lot, but you tend to forget {or seem to} that in the last arc, he was set to do a lot of crap, yes, but ultimately gave fairytale-ish future. You cannot just focus only on the negative side, when there is a somewhat good one as well. //for a Kalulu shipper btw, you seem that you want Kallen to end up with a prick like him or something, lol

[bladeofdarkness]

@sky
his sacrifice negates his prickness
which is why him being alive brings it back in full

@nogi
why did all the people he killed to complete his goal had to die ?

@azul
his ACTIONS were ment to achive that status
the over all plan was to make the world a better place
but his ACTIONS were ment to be EVIL for the sake of being evil

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

@nogi
why did all the people he killed to complete his goal had to die ?

Because life occasionally sucks, and so does death.
Killing Lelouch didn't bring them back.

[bladeofdarkness]

killing lelouch brought world peace

the only person whos death who had REAL purpose (all of his soldiers were interchangle with one another)

[azul120]

Exactly. What I meant to say was that he asked for death, rather than otherwise deserve it through straight accumulation of unaccounted negative karma. He held himself accountable through Zero Requiem by making sure he died. If he didn't want to die, he wouldn't have done ZR in the first place. After all, he himself said, and I paraphrase, "Those who kill should prepare to be killed."

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

@sky
his sacrifice negates his prickness
which is why him being alive brings it back in full

If you examine it clearly like this, then i suppose you got a point, but it semi-context. If you take Lelouch's break downs and his emo-moments and how he was struggling to break his morals in the end, and finally having his resolve for a better world and future as he said to Suzaku, then even in the last arc, he is not painted that black.
In fiction, you have to examine all pf the aspects, the motivations, the result of a situation. You seem to only focus on one aspect.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by incorrupts

If you examine it clearly like this, then i suppose you got a point, but it semi-context. If you take Lelouch's break downs and his emo-moments and how he was struggling to break his morals in the end, and finally having his resolve for a better world and future as he said to Suzaku, then even in the last arc, he is not painted that black.
In fiction, you have to examine all pf the aspects, the motivations, the result of a situation. You seem to only focus on one aspect.

i focus on the one aspect with the most noticable effects
complete disregard to human life and desire to become a monster for a better goal is the one trait that he reflected towards the outside world

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

killing lelouch brought world peace

the only person whos death who had REAL purpose (all of his soldiers were interchangle with one another)

That's a completely different point from the "he deserved it" thingy.
Lelouch could have become immortal if the staff had wanted it, and world peace would still be there. I'm not saying that Zero Requiem was pointless (even though Lelouch himself said there might have been other ways, but that wouldn't have been nearly as epic). I'm saying that if he had lived, that would be perfectly fine with me, since I think what he truly deserved was happiness.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

That's a completely different point from the "he deserved it" thingy.
Lelouch could have become immortal if the staff had wanted it, and world peace would still be there. I'm not saying that Zero Requiem was pointless (even though Lelouch himself said there might have been other ways, but that wouldn't have been nearly as epic). I'm saying that if he had lived, that would be perfectly fine with me, since I think what he truly deserved was happiness.

he died happy
and he deserved to die more then all the (somewhat) innocent people he killed to fulfill his plan
he deserved it BECAUSE he killed them

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i focus on the one aspect with the most noticable effects
complete disregard to human life and desire to become a monster for a better goal is the one trait that he reflected towards the outside world

Ah blade, i feel like we are arguing about where we would enjoy a hentai movie more, on our pc dvd or on our tv? lol
Circular argument.
Ok, i choose to focus on all of the aspects, you choose to focus on one, you say that Lelouch was a complete prick in the finale, i say, it was an incomplete one. Peace out. 8D

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

he died happy
and he deserved to die more then all the (somewhat) innocent people he killed to fulfill his plan
he deserved it BECAUSE he killed them

Wait.
Lelouch deserved to die happily, but not to live happily?
That doesn't make much sense to me.
Death was the easy way out. Living would have been an awesome chance for him, but it would also have meant that he'd indeed have to live with what he did.
Dying only took away thing he had never planned on keeping forever - he had been prepared to die from the start, after all - and hurt those who cared about him. It was a minute of physical pain and the knowledge that he gave up the "happily ever after" he never believed in in the first place, even though like everyone else, he'd have liked to have it at one point.

And anyway, now we're back to the "he deserved to die" thingy, even though that's what I disagreed with in the first place.

[Dyllani]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

killing lelouch brought world peace

the only person whos death who had REAL purpose (all of his soldiers were interchangle with one another)

Do you really think Lelouch succeeded in his goal? Do you think the people of Britannia, the whole world, learned a lasting lesson? I doubt it. Charles' Britania may have sucked for the numbers, but, for the most part, it worked for the people. They believed in their way of live, "were the best, yay Britannia". The Britannian Empire existed for centuries. The Britannian way of wife was wiped out in a matter of months. Everything these people knew, everything they were taught was turned upside down. The commoners, they could learn to live in this new Britannia. What about the Nobles? They lost something. They may want it back. Unlike his celibate sons, Charles was a lady's man. I know we never got a full look at the Britannian Royal Family, but I really find it had to believe that some of the Family didn't survive this whole nightmare (outside of Cornelia, Shniezel, & Nunnally). When Schneizel ship was going down, he had plans to meet up with Lord Whatever-his-Name-Was. Obviously, the nobles survived and some of them have resources. I'm sure the Royals, who weren't in the Capital during the take-over, went into hiding or a were protected by their families and individuals who were loyal to Charles. A year from now, Prince YesYes and Princess NoNo might not be happy with the way things are. They may try to "restore" Britannia and there are going to be people who want to aid them. In-Fighting. Civil War. Bloodshed...

[bladeofdarkness]

the moment he chose to kill so many people for the sake of his plan
he stopped deserving to live happily ever after
he no longer deserved something he robbed so many people of

living with what he did means a life of EVER LASTING SUFFERING
becouse it would mean having to LIVE WITH IT
it doesnt mean living happily ever after with C.C somewhere role playing wolf and spice
suzaku killed his father and looked what it led him to do
lelouch killed untold thousends (probably more) for the sake of his plan
simply being out of contact with nunnaly and everyone he loves is HARDLY enough to make up for that

@Dyllani
nunnaly is (from the looks of it) emperess of britannia
she has zero's support
which means she has the people's support
she can remake britannia into what she wants it to be
and if prince yesyes or princess nono exist and have a problem with that fact
they have to deal with both popular opinion and the fact she controls the army
add to that the fact that the UFN clearly like the idea of her in charge (ougi and her meet) and she gets support from the OTHER great world power
they could TRY and start a civil war
but i doubt they would have much chance
lelouch made it a point to kill anyone stupid enough to try and object WHILE changes were made
how many do you think would be left to try and defy nunnaly when she has the support of the entire world on her side
she also has zero as her PERSONAL body guard, try to get past him (and as an add bonus, the only person who COULD potentially beat him, is one of her best friends)

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

the moment he chose to kill so many people for the sake of his plan
he stopped deserving to live happily ever after
he no longer deserved something he robbed so many people of

Why not?
There is simply no logical reason for it. It's how you feel about it, and that's all right. But I can't say I can relate to that.

living with what he did means a life of EVER LASTING SUFFERING
becouse it would mean having to LIVE WITH IT
it doesnt mean living happily ever after with C.C somewhere role playing wolf and spice
suzaku killed his father and looked what it led him to do
lelouch killed untold thousends (probably more) for the sake of his plan
simply being out of contact with nunnaly and everyone he loves is HARDLY enough to make up for that

Wait.
You say that Lelouch would have felt so bad about what he did that he would have suffered horribly for the rest of his life (which I don't really agree with, but that's beside the point). Yet you insist it wouldn't have been enough, and dying without having to live with what he did was justice.
It doesn't make sense to me.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

the moment he chose to kill so many people for the sake of his plan
he stopped deserving to live happily ever after
he no longer deserved something he robbed so many people of

living with what he did means a life of EVER LASTING SUFFERING
becouse it would mean having to LIVE WITH IT
it doesnt mean living happily ever after with C.C somewhere role playing wolf and spice
suzaku killed his father and looked what it led him to do
lelouch killed untold thousends (probably more) for the sake of his plan
simply being out of contact with nunnaly and everyone he loves is HARDLY enough to make up for that

You know, in Geass, if we apply this kind of logic in an overall view, neither member from Black Knights [yes Kallen as well] deserved that, since their terrorist-actions, robbed this from other people too. Or generally, the ones that did commit actions, that involved innocent people getting in the line of fire. What about them then?

[bladeofdarkness]

@sky
i disagree
a soldier who kills during combat is not the same as the commender who sits behind the lines and PLANS to kill innocent people INTENTIONALLY
but we already agreed to disagree on that

@nogi
1)guess we'll just never agree on that one
if you REALLY dont think that a man who murdered thousends of people deserves to live LESS then the people he killed did
then we really are just waisting out time here

2)death ends everything that you are
happiness is something that someone alive can always try for
we all hear of fates worst then death, but in truth its not really that common
even someone who cant see,hear,or move can still seek happiness (no one promises that he'll get it)
dying means giving up that chance

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

@nogi
1)guess we'll just never agree on that one
if you REALLY dont think that a man who murdered thousends of people deserves to live LESS then the people he killed did
then we really are just waisting out time here

Then yes, I guess we are indeed just wasting our time. xD

2)death ends everything that you are
happiness is something that someone alive can always try for
we all hear of fates worst then death, but in truth its not really that common
even someone who cant see,hear,or move can still seek happiness (no one promises that he'll get it)
dying means giving up that chance

Exactly - death ends everything.
To many people, it's the perfect escape.

[bladeofdarkness]

so long as you are alive and have the use of your brain, you can still persue happiness (again, no one promises you'll find it)
death elimintaes that chance
giving up all future chance of happiness

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

@sky
i disagree
a soldier who kills during combat is not the same as the commender who sits behind the lines and PLANS to kill innocent people INTENTIONALLY
but we already agreed to disagree on that

@nogi
1)guess we'll just never agree on that one
if you REALLY dont think that a man who murdered thousends of people deserves to live LESS then the people he killed did
then we really are just waisting out time here

2)death ends everything that you are
happiness is something that someone alive can always try for
we all hear of fates worst then death, but in truth its not really that common
even someone who cant see,hear,or move can still seek happiness (no one promises that he'll get it)
dying means giving up that chance

I'm sorry what? I think Kallen and Lelouch had a nice talk in Stage 13, how they both are killing people for the sake of their own "justice." Innocent, that is. I do not get, how this would give a free pass to Lelouch and not to Kallen.

What i am trying to say actually, that it is fiction. It is natural to sympathize with certain characters even if they do admittedly shit things. It is their selfish-not-selfish -- outlook though, that makes their actions tolerable.
Lelouch in the last arc, and generally was someone that did break his morals, commited atrocities, having a non-selfish outlook though. Same with Kallen. Same with Suzaku.
That kind of free-pass though, you cannot {personally at least} give it easily to Cornelia or Viletta for example, that most of their actions are initiated from pure selfish reasons.
Obviously, i will not feel bad for chara-face#51,52 and so on, that Lelouch will kill, in order to accomplish ZR, as much as i would probably care, about Cornelia killing innocent Japanese people to lure out Zero.
Fiction, certain devices, biased-looks, random charas and so on, it has always worked that way.
In a nutshell, certain charas committing atrocities with not a selfish outlook = more tolerable than those that do commit them, with a selfish one.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

so long as you are alive and have the use of your brain, you can still persue happiness (again, no one promises you'll find it)
death elimintaes that chance
giving up all future chance of happiness

Merely repeating yourself won't change my mind about this.
And I more or less agree with sky... even though I don't only care about how "selfish" a character is when deciding if I like them.
For example, I think Clovis is indeed pretty slefish. But I also think that's by far not all there is to him.