Chapter 363 Discussion

[Sandaime78]

This may sound little crazy but I just thought of something...

What if... the mysterious leader who called upon AL is Danzou from Konoha's Root Division?

Even though he was mentioned in the past for a short period of time, he definitely favoured war over peaceful negotiation and he was indeed par (or perhaps, competing) with 3rd Hokage wasn't he?

And how did AL knew about the Konoha's belief "the will of fire?" He must of been informed by Itachi; however, his mentor might have been Danzou too if this theory holds true.

Just a thought... just a thought...

[Sazelyt]

Spoiler for Hunter:

Originally Posted by Hunter

What you consider is irrelevant when the character using the jutsu made a direct statement about its limits.

If the difference would be 1-2 meters compared to 5, I would have said ok, that is fine, just like the size change of the summons. But, if the difference becomes so huge, then, I do mind, and consider what I see as correct.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what you quoted.
You said Sasuke hit himself twice with the Chidori and I pointed out that you were wrong. I then added that before he hurt himsef he had shown no sign of fatigue whatsoever.

How can you explain, Chidori Nagashi having enough strength to make Sasuke change from no fatigue state to fatigued state? It is pretty obvious that he was indeed fatigued even before Chidori Nagashi.

I know, that's my point to begin with. You refuse to make any real comparison with anything happening previously in the story as long as it is related to your oh so hated Uchihas.

I refuse to make any comparison to other events, because neither reaches the ridiculous level of Sasuke's fight, regardless of how you try to twist what happened during those fights. Nothing comes close to Sasuke's fights. And, by the way, even Itachi was not degraded that way, after seeing what he had done, it didn't cause a lot of problems. It is only Sasuke, where the story gets tweaked beyond to the limit just to make it move forward.

I'm starting to grow bored repeating this to you :
Naruto has regulary 100 times more chakra than Kakashi. Only when the Kyubi is suppressed by Yamato he has "only" 4 times. Yes 4 and not 2 because Kishimoto decided to change this (along with a few scenes) compared to the prepublication when the tankubon was released.

Rurik has already mentioned that, and it is not in my control that, I haven't seen that. And, doesn't this show that Kishi, himself, has sucked so bad in his storytelling that he had to change that very important piece just to catch up to his ridiculous twists?

Yes, just like me.
The difference being that when I face an absence of information I don't start obsessively claiming plothole but see if it can be possible instead. Actually that's what you do when you didn't decide beforehand that you will complain about absolutely everything.

Considering the possibility is what I usually do, you know this better than I do. But, for that part, the plothole was what was grinning to me through the window. And, all I can see is, for good reason, that the story is twisted beyond the human conception just to make sure Sasuke survives.

Then your point is worth nothing and your bad faith is astounding. You claimed it was impossible to summon a big creature in an instant, that it never happened... And claim you are right while refusing to check the various instances where it happened and making a weak rebutal for the first examples in the first place.

Are you sure? You told me examples, and I checked one of them, the first of them, where we see in detail the first summoning, and we saw that it didn't happen immediately. Now, did Kishi change this in his volume release? No. So, why do I need to assume it as a mistake. Maybe, this is what Kishi showed us and didn't want to bother later on - remember the size of the light saber you are so defending despite what you are seeing there. And, you are so passionate about telling us that after Sasuke's eye showing, what comes next, the explosion, was not happening immediately, why are you so passionate about making the summoning an immediate event? Isn't it something no different than what I am doing? Then, how can you claim my perspective is wrong while you are the one who is right? Interesting, isn't it?

Like quoting "Sasuke is fast" and leaving the rest unanswered? I believe not.

As you might have noticed, I used that as a sarcastic comment, not for the sake of replying to your post, as, I believe, at that time, it was not a one to one discussion between us.

Actually, as expected, you just keep stating how this summoning works differently without providing any proof nor knowing the functionning of the Kuchiyose in the first place.
You do not know how Iruka being teleported worked, just as we do not know how Yondaime's jutsu worked. You say it isn't related to the "summon dimension", I say prove it. That's my claim. Where are you backing up yours exactly?

Are you sure I am the one that needs to prove. You are throwing an idea with no proof, and tell me to prove it. I have listed all my reasoning for Sasuke's case, and you couldn't give any kind of proof to invalidate that. Aren't you the one who needs proving before throwing the rock at me? And, just to satisfy your curiosity, you can only get summoned from the summon dimension, after you go there, which has never changed even during the ridiculous event you observed for Sasuke. That is not the case with Yondaime. And, assuming that Iruka had to stay in summon dimension during the five days goes even beyond understanding, especially when there is not a single mention about the possibility of going to summon dimension during the last 300+ chapters...

I was just pointing out the fact that regardless of what happen in any chapter your sole subject of discussion is Sasuke.

My sole target is Kishi's forced tweaks, and the only target for that kind of tweaks in the story was only Sasuke. So, what should I do, when it is only about Sasuke, keep his name as a secret and consider any even that takes place with him as untouchable?

Not only this was anime filler but you don't even know how much chakra Suigetsu possesses nor how much is required to summon Manda for that matter.

Oh, I am sure it should be pretty low, as even the Naruto from the past wouldn't have any difficulty summoning him without using Kyuubi's chakra. I hope you are kidding, but it is still not funny.

Then I don't see what's so funny, I just don't think this is something we will see often, if anymore, because it seems to me like a one time use. Just like Sarutobi's crystal ball.

Exactly. Which means it is a forced scene just to make sure the story moves forwards the way Kishi desires regardless of how stupid and illogical it is. Just like real AL knowing that Sasuke is alive and knowing what Sasuke did with his eyes beyond his reach when there shouldn't be anything around to see that unless the person watching is very close. Wasn't that what I was trying to explain all along? And, the part with Sasuke being one time use explains how stupid it really is when you consider how many people might be able to use it considering the level of danger they had seen and the help it could provide, starting with possibly the Asuma gang.

Anyway because this quotes aren't going anywhere let's recap the real debat :

You say that Sasuke was out of chakra because :
-Deidara said so
-He looked beat up
-He used many jutsu
-He didn't keep his Sharingan on

Whereas I pointed out :
-Deideira only assumed that, he did it several times and he was wrong all of them. Or Sasuke used the CS for a punctual forced production of chakra, both are possible.
-Yeah he was beat up, he just fried himself. It doesn't mean however he was low on chakra. Being wounded does't make your chakra disapear.
-So what? This was Sasuke's first shown fight, we didn't know his chakra capacity after the timeskip and it is still far under Naruto's.
-Again, so what? Itachi is the only one who keeps his Sharingan on all the time. Deidara was out of chakra and Sasuke believed the fight was finished, like Neji against Naruto he didn't keep his magic eyes on.

You know what let's keep one at a time. First the chakra part, then the amount of time necessary to do what he did.

- So, now we are going to ignore what a character has said just for the sake of making sure we are not deceived. Really, interesting!
-Being wounded make your chakra capacity automatically get lower as it directly decreases your stamina. You know chakra doesn't appear out of nowhere.
- This was Sasuke's second shown fight, have you already forgotten Oro's case. Oh, yes, that was not a fight, just a fan service to make sure Oro hands his spirit to Sasuke. Anyway, if you consider that it is still under Naruto's, please give a proof first. Kakashi being able to do 2-3 MS, whereas Itachi being able to do 3, doesn't make Itachi have 1.5 times Kakashi's chakra. It may just be that the amount of chakra Itachi uses for the same jutsu can be higher. And, that can easily be the case for Sasuke's chidori. So, you cannot give any kind of proof for your statement, so, I really think, you shouldn't throw statements that randomly.
- And, Neji was out of it too. Are you sure he turned it off because he thought the fight is over, or because he was already done enough to lose to a punch? When Deidara was building his bomb, Sasuke's eyes were still normal, whereas, at that point, he should have already activated it, to see in detail what he is doing. Sorry, making Sasuke that kind of an idiot is not going to prove your way out of this. If he thought the fight is over, he had the ability to read minds, so he could have used his sharingan and that ability to start extracting information from Deidara. Kishi is changing the way he does things in weird directions, and you have to wonder, why even introduce something you cannot even back up. And, you are asking me to believe a third dimension, which is even beyond Kishi's level of craziness...Well, I said I won't do that, and I really won't do that.

[Inferied]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-Maybe it's just me but I view Deidara's suicide bomb to be symbolic to a giant (emphasis on giant) "F*** You" directed at Sasuke. All Sasuke wanted was info but good ol' Deidara decided that if Sasuke was granted victory over him he would certainly not gain anything else (like the aforementioned information). Sasuke can be said to have "won" because he survived the last of Deidara's assaults it's just that Deidara died in the process.

Actually, it looked more like cry to me. Something along the lines "I want to be recognised/respected/loved. I don't want to be looked down by you anymore." Usual Kishimoto stuff...

[tramadrama]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

It may just be that the amount of chakra Itachi uses for the same jutsu can be higher. And, that can easily be the case for Sasuke's chidori. So, you cannot give any kind of proof for your statement, so, I really think, you shouldn't throw statements that randomly.

When Sasuke and Kakashi were on the mountain or whatever doing chidori, what did he say to Sasuke to let him know that three was his limit in one day? I can't remember. Did he say, because of your amount of chakra? or did he say it basically as "a matter of fact?"

I'm not being rhetorical, don't take this wrong. Just curious. I may have a bad translation.

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by Inferied

Actually, it looked more like cry to me. Something along the lines "I want to be recognised/respected/loved. I don't want to be looked down by you anymore." Usual Kishimoto stuff...

-So you're telling me Deidara was so horny for Sasuke in some strange, psychopatic way that he wanted his attention/recognition badly enough to blow himself sky high? Great, maybe they can get together in some alternate universe and conceive some Sharingan-abusing-quadra-mouthed babies . Meh whatever, it is high time we moved on to more important aspects of the story: like Naruto's meeting with the Akatsuki Leader/Executive, Sakura and Karin's cat fight over Sasuke's love in a pile of mud (with Juugo and Suigetsu being the judges), and most important of all, the newest release of Jiraya's Icha Icha Pradise novel...

[Nuu]

Originally Posted by tramadrama

When Sasuke and Kakashi were on the mountain or whatever doing chidori, what did he say to Sasuke to let him know that three was his limit in one day? I can't remember. Did he say, because of your amount of chakra? or did he say it basically as "a matter of fact?"

I'm not being rhetorical, don't take this wrong. Just curious. I may have a bad translation.

His statement was 2 was his limit on chidori at that time.... because if you remember way back with this manga started when they talk about doing bushin jutsu comparing naruto to sasuke and sakura that the had to put more chakra into a jutsu because they couldnt master there chakra control now after the timeskip working on jutsu theve known for awhile is going to start not to tire them out as much

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by tramadrama

When Sasuke and Kakashi were on the mountain or whatever doing chidori, what did he say to Sasuke to let him know that three was his limit in one day? I can't remember. Did he say, because of your amount of chakra? or did he say it basically as "a matter of fact?"

I don't remember what he said, but, it is definitely related to Sasuke's chakra level. The limit on any kind of jutsu is more or less related to its chakra requirement (some jutsu might also give self-damage to the person, so it might be a limiting factor as well as the chakra). But, quite possibly, Sasuke's limit was decided using a trial and error method, use it till you are done, and 2 was the most that came out at the time.

And I consider it similar to Kakashi's MS. He had the capacity to do it 3 times a day (although the 2nd was a failure, he still should have consumed quite a lot of chakra on that, close to the required amount), which might be considered quite close to Itachi's limit (if you combine the two given hints, Itachi getting almost done after the 3rd MS and mentioning about not being able to use it with 30% of his chakra given to the clone). If you take it as they use the same chakra, then it wouldn't make a rational statement, as Itachi's chakra capacity should be a few times more than Kakashi's, at least 2-3-or more times.

[Luminion Lancer]

-Wow so many people are jumping down another person's throat. Don't you just feel the love ? In any case it seems that a lot of people presented different reasons for disliking this chapter. Some hate how Sasuke avoided that massive explosion, some hate the fact that Pein was introducd earlier than expectd and others are just plain fed up with Kishimoto's inconsistencies regarding his own rules. What can be done about it? Nothing unless Kishimoto himself wills it. The information presented may have been hard to swallow but that is the reality of it all. Is there any way to influence the mangaka? None that I am aware of. Should you continue reading this? That's your choice isn't it? No one is going to hold a gun to your head and tell to read it.

[That Other Ninja]

Well I'm not disappointed. Anybody expecting Sasuke to die now is lying to themselves, even if they hate him with a romantic passion. I expected him to survive it. I saw the Manda summoning thing coming but not this "space jutsu". Don't know really if I find it a good or a bad thing. I just hope the focus changes back to Naruto & co. because I can only take so much of Sasuke.

[Icecolduchiha]

Finally that the leader has been reveled to have been from the mist, I must mention something I notice A while ago, In the earlier episode's where it was explaining about the uchiha family and their history I noticed right below the uchiha family crest within itachi and sasuke uchiha's home, they lyied the symbol of the village of the bloody mist. This coupled with the mist's rising importance in the series with the 7 swordsmen, the leader being reveled to be from there, One of sasukes compainions being from there, as well as kisame itachi's companion being from their, coupled with the symbol which lyied directly below the family crest within the uchiha's home leads me to the conclusion that the mists importance in the series and its correlation to the uchiha's, Ak, and series's main idea/theme must be reavaluated because there lies a great chance that something has been overseen and missed?, Anyone else have any Idea's.

Also sasuke broke through time and space....Remind you of something.....?...and that is not boring at all.

[Dwolfwood]

Ok hey guys I am new to the thread but honestly i don't think any 1 akatsuki is stronger then itachi i think he's only cooperates because he doesn't have the recourses available to him if he was on his own. As for sasuke he definitely improved alot but i still dont think he can handle itachi we not in the sharigian department anyway but since he's blind now sasuke speed might be a little issue to deal with but not impossible 2 beat

[abazou]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-Maybe it's just me but I view Deidara's suicide bomb to be symbolic to a giant (emphasis on giant) "F*** You" directed at Sasuke. All Sasuke wanted was info but good ol' Deidara decided that if Sasuke was granted victory over him he would certainly not gain anything else (like the aforementioned information). Sasuke can be said to have "won" because he survived the last of Deidara's assaults it's just that Deidara died in the process.

Sasuke was not trying to kill Deidara and didnt use everything he got against him. He even said to have other techniques in reserve if lightning didnt work with the bombs.

[Nintendo]

its naruto.....the manga brings out the worst in people

[BlackShinobi07]

Originally Posted by Dwolfwood

Ok hey guys I am new to the thread but honestly i don't think any 1 akatsuki is stronger then itachi i think he's only cooperates because he doesn't have the recourses available to him if he was on his own. As for sasuke he definitely improved alot but i still dont think he can handle itachi we not in the sharigian department anyway but since he's blind now sasuke speed might be a little issue to deal with but not impossible 2 beat

Itachi isnt blind. According to Kakashi his vision may have waned a bit due to the use of MS but hes certainly not blind.

I agree with what you about Itachi still being superior to Sasuke. If Sasuke struggled like that agianst Deidara, Itachi is still WAY out of his league.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

How about, you could just not read the discussion between Sazelyt and Hunter, because just as much "right" you have of telling Sazelyt to "go away if you hate this manga" Sazelyt and I have the same amount as to tell you to stop reading if you don’t like it.

Lol the only reason i'm here is for those two they are always at it, Sazely is Naruto and Hunter is Sasuke.

Hunter always win, i love Hunter. (in a non gay way)

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

Lol the only reason i'm here is for those two they are always at it, Sazely is Naruto and Hunter is Sasuke.

Hunter always win, i love Hunter. (in a non gay way)

Why because he argues and talks back to the others who are disrespecting your Sasuke?

Anyway I like Hunters' and Sazelyt's discussions they go back and forth but both of them have legit points and arguments, people need to stop getting angry and attacking others personaly and realize that it's just arguments nothing to get to personaly heated about.

[yungz21]

at least sasuke lasted longer than a chapter on his own against an akatsuki because if you think about had yamato and kakashi not been there naruto would have died when he tried to use it the first time

[Dwolfwood]

the only thing that annoys me about this series is that sakura and sasuke both became very very strong from what they were pre-time skip but naruto came back with pretty much nothin except less control of the 9 tails something gotta happen with this guy at this point he is no match to nobody, i think we would of saw more of and improvement if he was trained by yamato or kakashi i was hoping he ran into the other people with the tailed beast sealed inside them so then can teach him how to control his kyubbi but i doubt that will happen now

[Hunter]

I just had to take care of half a dozen of post degenerating into flame war so let's (re)make things clear :

• I don't want to see the "series/Kishimoto is shit, only 5 years old can like what he does" kind of post anymore. You may thing it's just your opinion but this is a flame bait and a troll and will be dealt with accordingly.
• There is however nothing wrong about arguing events or characters, even if you hate them. If you think a member fanatically hates something it's not a problem as long as the debat remains polite.
• If you have a problem with someone's posts then use the report button . Even if you think I read it and didn't find a problem (or if I simply missed it), the report button allows to all the mods to see, discuss and eventually moderate if there need be.

___________________________

I don't have the time right now to deal individualy with the posts I had to delete but don't think you're off the hook.

[Inferied]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

-So you're telling me Deidara was so horny for Sasuke in some strange, psychopatic way that he wanted his attention/recognition badly enough to blow himself sky high? Great, maybe they can get together in some alternate universe and conceive some Sharingan-abusing-quadra-mouthed babies . Meh whatever, it is high time we moved on to more important aspects of the story: like Naruto's meeting with the Akatsuki Leader/Executive, Sakura and Karin's cat fight over Sasuke's love in a pile of mud (with Juugo and Suigetsu being the judges), and most important of all, the newest release of Jiraya's Icha Icha Pradise novel...

Not really, I think he was "horny" for Itachi... What he wanted was Itachi's recognition/defeat, and he would have gained first by beating Sasuke... And he was also pissed of because Sasuke didn't give a shit about him the same way Itachi does.
It's too complicated to explain...