Fate/Zero - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Kokukirin]

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

The only fight scene in the episode and it's done in pitch black darkness. Really?

This anime really hates fighting doesn't it.

Last week we had three fights one after another that lasted the entire episode. Troll much?

[SuzushinaYuriko]

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

The only fight scene in the episode and it's done in pitch black darkness. Really?

This anime really hates fighting doesn't it.

We've had plenty of gloriously animated fight scenes so far, including last episode which was entirely full of fighting. I think that devoting an episode or two to characterization and back stories really isn't that big of a deal.

[matapat]

Now THAT is how you do a good, interesting episode without shoehorning a 10 minute shounen action sequence in it.

Kiritsugu reduces to Kayneth to such a hollow shell of a man that it turns the biggest a-hole in the series thus far into a pitiable wretch. His wife is in love with his servant, who only wishes to faithfully serve him to make up for the great betrayal he suffered in life.

Kiritsugu shows off more of his "see the big picture" pragmatism in his "I'm going out to hunt, honey" scene with his wife, who's humanity and compassion despite being an artificial construct is single-handedly holding her team together.

Waver actually does something useful and takes a harsh reality check on the nature of the war and another step towards adulthood. Rider is the epitome of manliness as usual.

And finally we continue the slow burn on Kotomine's character arc as he looks like he's having second thoughts on continuing to be Tohsaka's lackey, or strike out on his own.

9/10 for the episode, deducting only a point for more ludicrous censoring in Caster's lair. Look I know this is on TV and often horror works best when things are left for the imagination to fill in the blanks, but, seriously, I'm not asking for a pile ' o bodies GORN here or anything, but a bloody sneaker and audible background vomiting? That's it?

[Allium]

A very solid episode here. I liked how it began with showing Lancer's tragic past before going into Kayneth, Sola and Lancer's current situation.

I really enjoyed the Waver and Rider part - although the heavy censoring kinda ruined the impact of the scene. Is it just me, or did Waver look manlier than usual this episode?

And lastly, it seems that Kotomine's getting bored of Tokiomi as well.

9/10 for this one. (And Rin for episode 10 squeeee~)

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by matapat

9/10 for the episode, deducting only a point for more ludicrous censoring in Caster's lair. Look I know this is on TV and often horror works best when things are left for the imagination to fill in the blanks, but, seriously, I'm not asking for a pile ' o bodies GORN here or anything, but a bloody sneaker and audible background vomiting? That's it?

what was censor was not just a pile of dead bodies

Spoiler for what is being censor:

it was human bodies made into furniture and musical instruments. including a Organ made form living humans. The intestine of the victim would be stretch out like piano wire and Ryunoskue would tab it with a tuning fork then then victim on the other end would scream.

Do the people who keep complaining about the censor really want to see Ryunosuke play do mi fa so with a human organ before they are satisfied?

[Akarin]

Originally Posted by Randomzx

Keep in mind F/SN Lancer's stats is abit nerfed from having a certain master and other story related restrictions.

But his luck will stay E even if he's not nerfed.

Originally Posted by Marik

Can anyone give me link with the novels that are translated into English, please?

Baka-Tsuki is translating the Fate/zero light novel. (google baka tsuki fate/zero).

Originally Posted by Cyz

Did Kayneth felt that his finger getting bent or did he also lost his sensation?

From the light novel:

Driven by bewilderment and fear, Kayneth writhed in agony. But, his body did not move at all. From the top of a simple bed, he was facing upwards. His chest and back were tightly bound by a belt. If it was only that he could not get up, he understood. Yet, what did it mean by his unresponsive hands and legs? The part of him which was tied down was only his torso. There weren't any binds at his limbs. But still...they could not move. It was as if his arms and legs did not exist.

“The Command Spells......I'm not handing them over.”

Plainly, Kayneth declared.

“Command Spells and Magic Circuits are different systems of magecraft. Now, I can still exercise it. I......right now, I am still Lancer's Master!”

Huhh... Sola sighed deeply.

Along with that long sigh, the gentle smile on her face vanished.

“Kayneth, you don't understand huh......Whatever the case, we must win.”

Kruck, The dry sound of a twig being stepped on could be heard.

From Kayneth's right hand which she had been treating gently until now, Sola casually twisted his little finger off.

As usual, there was no pain. However, that numbness caused Kayneth's fear to multiple. Just like that, without encountering any resistance, she could have easily twist off the remaining four fingers one by one.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

what was censor was not just a pile of dead bodies

Spoiler for novel:

it was human bodies made into furniture and musical instruments. including a Organ made form living humans. The intestine of the victim would be stretch out like piano wire and Ryunoskue would tab it with a tuning fork then then victim on the other end would scream.

Do the people who keep complaining about the censor really want to see Ryunosuke

Spoiler for novel again:

play do mi fa so with a human organ

before they are satisfied?

Short answer, YES

For the longer, by not showing how disturbing their crimes are, as well as the agony of the victims, the trivialize the crimes; and this under the most stupid excuse that showing a crime disturbs people, but committing it does not

[GeostigmataShi]

Originally Posted by matapat

Now THAT is how you do a good, interesting episode without shoehorning a 10 minute shounen action sequence in it.

Kiritsugu reduces to Kayneth to such a hollow shell of a man that it turns the biggest a-hole in the series thus far into a pitiable wretch. His wife is in love with his servant, who only wishes to faithfully serve him to make up for the great betrayal he suffered in life.

Kiritsugu shows off more of his "see the big picture" pragmatism in his "I'm going out to hunt, honey" scene with his wife, who's humanity and compassion despite being an artificial construct is single-handedly holding her team together.

Waver actually does something useful and takes a harsh reality check on the nature of the war and another step towards adulthood. Rider is the epitome of manliness as usual.

And finally we continue the slow burn on Kotomine's character arc as he looks like he's having second thoughts on continuing to be Tohsaka's lackey, or strike out on his own.

9/10 for the episode, deducting only a point for more ludicrous censoring in Caster's lair. Look I know this is on TV and often horror works best when things are left for the imagination to fill in the blanks, but, seriously, I'm not asking for a pile ' o bodies GORN here or anything, but a bloody sneaker and audible background vomiting? That's it?

There were furniture. There were clothes as well. Musical instruments; cutlery. Various items
uses of which were not understood at all; they probably were just pictures or artworks. The
enthusiasm of the creator devoting himself completely into designing them diligently, and his
profligate sense of fun could be perceived.
Unmistakably, the craftsman who made these ceaselessly loved his raw materials, and the
manufacturing process itself.
They understood that there was someone who violently discovered pleasures. That might be
the person who committed those murders. But the things in this blood-stained space were not
corpses.
There wasn't a single “destroyed remains” here. Everything was a new creation; an art. Their
lives as “human beings”, their carcass as “human beings” were completely discarded
meaninglessly during the process of the art―that was the entirety of the slaughter at that
place.
Murders which were done creatively to amuse himself; this behavior which created art by
means of death, had far exceeded the maximum level Waver's mind could possibly take.
Above simple emotions like horror and disgust, at such a graphically realistic and alarming
shock, Waver could not even stand straight. Before he realized, he was already on the
bloodstained floor on both his hands and knees, regurgitating all the contents of his stomach.

Thank God they censor it ...

[Akarin]

Spoiler for fate/zero's LN - 106:08:19:

“......Aah, boy. I think it's better for you not to look.”

It was rare for Rider to be this frank. At his excuse which was as if there was something stuck in between his teeth, obviously Waver would become astonished.

“What are you talking about!? If Caster is not here, we have to at least find out some clue as
to where he is!!”

“That's probably true but, oh well. Boy, that guy is too much for you.”

“Shut up!”

Becoming serious of the turn of events which were meant to be, Waver jumped down from
the driver's seat of the chariot and stood on the floor, and activated his night vision skill.
Instantly, his field of vision opened up like a fog clearing up, and the spectacle ahead of him
which was masked by the darkness earlier, opened up as well.

Until the moment he tried to understand the situation around him, he had forgotten how he
blocked the odor which had been hanging in the air of the sewer, even until here. He had been
thinking all this while that the splashing sound of the water when he jumped onto the floor,
was merely because of the sewage water.

“...Wh-wha―”

Waver Velvet is a magus. He prepared his heart for the every type of mystery whose
reasoning were outside his ethics.

He knew that the ritual he was participating in now was one with unparalleled brutal murders,
and thus, did not spare any sweet feeling towards them. If he had not conceptualize himself
seeing dead bodies piling up, he would not have any tinge of hope of staying in this fight.
Because of that, Waver resolved to never be shaken, whatever the “death” which might
spring out surprisingly into his sight. Because this Fuyuki is the battleground, it is natural to
see dead bodies.

Even if their numbers were enormous, even if they were to be mutilated till losing their entire
human appearance―in the end, corpses are still but corpses. He would frown at such goriness
and atrocity, but there was nothing he could not tolerate.

He had been thinking about this. Until this very instant.

The limits of Waver's imagination were that corpses were but remains of human bodies in the
end; nothing but the result of their destruction. However, the scene before his very eyes now,
surpassed his previous thought completely.

As an illustration, that place was just like a variety shop.

There were furniture. There were clothes as well. Musical instruments; cutlery. Various items
uses of which were not understood at all; they probably were just pictures or artworks. The
enthusiasm of the creator devoting himself completely into designing them diligently, and his
profligate sense of fun could be perceived.

Unmistakably, the craftsman who made these ceaselessly loved his raw materials, and the
manufacturing process itself.

They understood that there was someone who violently discovered pleasures. That might be
the person who committed those murders. But the things in this blood-stained space were not
corpses.

There wasn't a single “destroyed remains” here. Everything was a new creation; an art. Their
lives as “human beings”, their carcass as “human beings” were completely discarded
meaninglessly during the process of the art―that was the entirety of the slaughter at that
place.

Murders which were done creatively to amuse himself; this behavior which created art by
means of death, had far exceeded the maximum level Waver's mind could possibly take.
Above simple emotions like horror and disgust, at such a graphically realistic and alarming
shock, Waver could not even stand straight. Before he realized, he was already on the
bloodstained floor on both his hands and knees, regurgitating all the contents of his stomach.
Rider descended from his chariot. Standing beside Waver, he sighed deeply.

“That's why, eh...I've asked you to stop, but...”

“Shut up!!”

[Cyz]

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

The only fight scene in the episode and it's done in pitch black darkness. Really?

This anime really hates fighting doesn't it.

Not really, fight scenes have been pretty good so far IMO. I think they just trying to censor the grotesque that Rider and Waver have seen and also darkness to emphasize how the Assassins fight. Could've wish they extend the fight a little longer because I want to see the Assassins in action.

[Ringil]

The scene with Sola and Keyneth's finger was very well done. You don't need to be all gory to have a meaningful injury.

[HandofFate]

Assassin really is weak...this one wasn't even done in, in a grand manner like with Archer.

He just got killed from Rider throwing a knife back at him and he just walked into it..lol

[Randomzx]

Originally Posted by Lost My Music

But his luck will stay E even if he's not nerfed.



Baka-Tsuki is translating the Fate/zero light novel. (google baka tsuki fate/zero).



From the light novel:

Well, Rin's Lancer in Fate/Extra have D rank in luck though.

The Fate/Zero light novel translation is already finished. But the translation is too awkward and too literal.

[jeroz]

so guess that they are not putting back in the loli assassin story...................

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Short answer, YES

For the longer, by not showing how disturbing their crimes are, as well as the agony of the victims, the trivialize the crimes; and this under the most stupid excuse that showing a crime disturbs people, but committing it does not

You may want to see it, but a scene like that..... is definitely going to be censored. What's being described is much nastier than Mami mogu mogu, and even that was partially censored. So yeah, not a surprise at all.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

You may want to see it, but a scene like that..... is definitely going to be censored. What's being described is much nastier than Mami mogu mogu, and even that was partially censored. So yeah, not a surprise at all.

I wasn't surprised, but disappointed

[Vicious108]

I should probably check out Diarmuid's story on Wikipedia or something after this, since that flashback was just a little too vague to get a satisfying gist of what went down in his previous life. But now that people have summarised it in this thread, it becomes rather obvious that his current love triangle perfectly mirrors the one he had in life, and which cost him his life. So yeah, better stay alert there, Lancer. Bros before hos and all.

I'd already kind of felt sorry for Kayneth in the previous episode, so naturally seeing him as a veggie in this one was all the more impactful. Some viewers seem to revel in it due to seeing him as an irredeemable bastard who deserves it, but eh, he's doesn't seem to be all that bad to me. A very strict teacher and an extremely elitist magus to be sure, but not really evil or anything. And despite their union having been arranged, his feelings for Sola seem to be genuine, which makes his current predicament all the more agonising. Looks like last week's guess that he was going to be Urobuchi's favourite "pet" was right on the money.

And yeah, as expected, Sola's… kind of a bitch. I'm curious as to what her own objective is, if she even has one besides boning Lancer. And speaking of Lancer, I gotta wonder what his position would be if the need for a mana transfer were to arise (no pun intended~).

As stoic as his expression remained, Kiritsugu was clearly (and understandably) livid in this episode, and I loved it. How much worse can his Master and Servant relationship with Saber get? Iri already has to act out the messenger between them in order to keep the team going, and props to her for being able to handle and mediate such opposing views on morality and their priorities in the war. Kiritsugu only has finishing off Kayneth in mind, whereas Saber's all about stopping Caster ASAP. Gotta wonder if they'll ever be on the same page in any of the battles.

After they sat out on the entire previous conflict, it was great to see Waver and Rider get right back into the action here. Waver's finally showing some of his talent and it was kind of endearing how all it took to change his mind about invading Caster's lair was Rider recognising said talent. That's Waver's only real wish, so one could say that, with Rider by his side, the kid's already got everything he's ever wanted from the Holy Grail.

As for Rider, what's cool about him is not just his manliness and how strong he is, but also his respect and admiration towards those seemingly much weaker than him. Guys of his stature and strength can often grow to look down on the weak, but Rider instead sees those very same weaknesses as strengths in his own way. Waver was self-deprecating about using the most basic method possible to find Caster, Rider showed him how getting good results with basic methods can be more of a feat than with complex ones. Waver was self-deprecating about how he couldn't handle seeing the gruesome scenery in Caster's lair, Rider showed him how being moved to such an extent by such a display of inhumanity can be seen as proof of one's virtue. The ultimate bro indeed, coming-of-age-kid Waver really couldn't have asked for a better Servant.

And yeah, the censoring was more of a shame here than ever before. Previously it was mostly just used to show the Caster team's depraved character, but here its purpose was the impact it had on Waver, and consequently the viewer. And obviously a blood smeared sneaker can only have so much impact. Not that I expected to see the novel's material fully depicted of course, but are visible corpses too much to ask? I realise that would contradict what the novel described, but they could just replace those shots with the actual human furniture for the DVD editions or something. Oh well, it was a engaging scene nonetheless and provided good character development for Waver, who was in serious need of some serious moments after having been reduced to pure comic relief for so many episodes.

So, next time… Rin's Adventure? Huh, I didn't expect to see her again at all in this, but as long as it serves a purpose in the story and it's not just some fanservice for them lolicons, I'm all for it. In fact, the timing is more than a little suspicious after that last scene, where Kotomine clearly begins to see it Gilgamesh's way as regards Tokiomi's passive approach towards the war. And if you add up Kariya's return from the preview, things definitely don't look good for papa Tohsaka, and as such I'm particularly looking forward to episode 10.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

It's kind of sad that Lancer seems to be falling for her act cause she reminds him a bit of someone he loved during his own heroic saga.

That's certainly a possibility, but I feel that maybe Lancer does see through her façade, but simply doesn't care since teaming up with Sola really is the only way he can end up saving his Master at this point. After probably having had to deal with shallow enchanted women his whole life due to dat mole, it would be strange if he hadn't developed a keener eye for acts such as Sola's.

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Assassin really is weak…

Yes… that's why there are dozens of him.

But people shouldn't expect the Assassin class to stand up to the remaining Servants either way. The proper use is to have them stealthily aim for the Masters. It's what they did in this episode, but unfortunately for them Rider was just too aware of his surroundings.

[ElricKeyblade]

Lancer's backstory: Pretty sad. (Though that kiss was kind of hot. o.o Sorry, just stating the obvious! )

Sola: CREEPY. NOOOOOOOO DON'T YOU DARE DO THAT. POOR LANCER AND KAYNETH.

Saber, Kiritsugu, and Irisviel: ...Ya'll got issues. Specifically Kiritsugu.

Waver and Iskander: AWESOME AND MANLY FTW.

Caster and Creepy Master: DIE YOU SICK FREAKS!

And...not really looking forward to Rin next episode. It'll just make the whole thing "eh" for me. Can't wait for more Gilgamesh time though.

[Triple_R]

Pretty uneventful episode, but it was a very good one for character development and the dialogue was excellent.

It was great to see some additional focus and background detail put on Lancer, as well as on Sola and Kayneth. I liked the comparisons drawn between Sola and Lancer's love from his past life. On the topic of Kayneth, I agree with Endless Twilight. Kayneth is very smug and prideful, but I don't think he's a total bad guy, or anything like that. He's a good antagonist because of his overall attitude and relatively hammy personality, but I wouldn't call him evil. Hence, I did feel some sympathy for him here. Him losing his magic ability has to be awfully devastating to him. I would imagine it's comparable to a great and proud musician losing his ability to produce music.


Rider/Waver weren't quite as comedic this episode as they had been all along, but it was good to see Waver be truly useful for a change, and the overall dynamic between the two is as good as ever.

Not much to say about the other scenes as they seemed perfunctory to me.

One thing I'm starting to wonder about is where is Kariya during this episode and the past few? Kind of odd that the Kariya/Berserker pair is the only one to be totally absent since the first big showdown between multiple Servants a few episodes back. If anybody should be racing against the clock given his personal circumstances, I'd think it would be Kariya, but he seems to be entirely laying low the last few episodes.


Still, a very good and solid watch.

8/10 for Episode 9.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

One thing I'm starting to wonder about is where is Kariya during this episode and the past few? Kind of odd that the Kariya/Berserker pair are the only ones to be totally absent since the first big showdown between multiple Servants a few episodes back. If anybody should be racing against the clock given his personal circumstances, it's Karyia, but he seems to be laying entirely low the last few episodes.

That's probably because his only real target has been even less keen on showing himself. From Kariya's short appearance in episode 5 it seems that at this point he cares for little outside of measuring up to and getting back at Tokiomi in any way he can, hence him only unleashing Berserker when Gilgamesh showed himself.

And especially due to how much of a toll unleashing Berserker seems to be on his body, Kariya is likely to remain a spectator as long as Tokiomi sticks to his hikkokomori tactics. Which is kind of annoying since I've been dying for some more Kariya & Zerker. Thankfully the preview for episode 10 looks pretty promising when it comes to this particular feud.