Proposal: The AnimeSuki Forums Theme Change

[Haiprbim]

Originally Posted by hyl

And how do you plan on attracting new people if we "keep" our current theme and at the same time make the option of using a new theme? Unless you want to plan on using the new theme as the default theme, but that can cause other problems. It's not uncommon to see people in this forum fail to read pinned threads or announcements, so what if this change made them leave the forums? Because they don't like the theme and they are not aware that you can change it back to before.

Yes, I wanted the new theme to be set on default, as said multiple times in the thread already.
As said, the older members already know where to find the theme-changing section (that would stay where it is now), and could change the theme to the current one with ease.
Also, an account-memorising set is pretty common around, so once you would log-in, the theme you last used would be set automatically.

Plus more importantly (and said by other people), what makes you think that a new theme actually has that kind of desired effect? Just a new theme won't attract new members, because people actually have to come to this site to see the themes.
You can't be sure that the effort put into all of this , is even worth it. Add the extra problem that you don't even have a graphic designer.
Realistically speaking, you have nothing concrete because you don't have a graphic designer nor anything to show.

Just as a side-note, I found out about AnimeSuki Forums by writting "Anime Forums" into my Browser.
These forums were the first ones I found and my purpose for visiting them was, and still mainly is, to discuss the anime series.
Also, due to this site's original focus, sharing links to unlicensed anime episodes not getting much attention at the moment, I guess that the biggest part of the visitors is doing the same as me - discussing the anime series.

Now, the current community here is quite big and lively, so it would be a shame seeing random people visit for the first time and not register because of the looks of the forums, because many do so.

You are suggestion is nice and all, but the suggestion of new forum skins is not new. But back then, nothing was done with these because they used to plan to moving to 4.0 but in the end they didn't even do it.

forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=114086

forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=90527

forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=90323

This is even bigger than a skin - it is a theme.
We already have two skins, Default Beige and Blue, but a theme would make things accessible on a different way besides having a different graphical design. Personally, I think it would make the important links more visible and their location easier memorizable.
As for the move to vBulletin 4, there is not really much we can do. relentlessflame gave out the reasons why the move wasn't made, and that was because vB 4 is not that much new anymore and vB 5 is a bit complicated.
Personally, I'd wait for vB 6 to be released. There should be no haste, and I did not get the feeling that the Admins have it, just some members of the community.

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by Haiprbim

Now, the current community here is quite big and lively, so it would be a shame seeing random people visit for the first time and not register because of the looks of the forums, because many do so.

What?

I would think that people would register because of the quality of the conversations, not because of how the site looks (especially those that have lurked for awhile).

Also, please quantify the "because many do so."

[HasuMasu]

To be fair, I might not be here if not for the existence of Animesuki Blue.

[Haiprbim]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

What?

I would think that people would register because of the quality of the conversations, not because of how the site looks (especially those that have lurked for awhile).

Seeing someone register only after they have checked out the conversations around? That's new to me.

Also, please quantify the "because many do so."

I've seen around that many just take a 5-second peek at the site and it is enough to make them register or leave.
There are many forums out there where you can discuss anime series, I do not think most people really want to take their time thinking which to pick. They probably pick the ones they think gave out the best visual impression. If the content and the community isn't good, they switch.
Again, the content and the community of AnimeSuki Forums are awesome, I just do not think the looks are really attractive to someone new. Of course, it is all down to personal opinion.

Originally Posted by Hasumi

To be fair, I might not be here if not for the existence of Animesuki Blue.

Yeah, many find it as a nice skin and so do I.
However, I'd like to focus that a theme is more than a skin.
While a skin just focuses on a graphical design, the theme has the whole organization of the forums next to it.
Check the first post on the thread under Organization for more.

I have to run, will be unable to respond for some time. Have a good day.

[Auxilism]

My points below can be overruled if it is not a common behaviour.

What about members who only log in to post/check messages (like me)? Wouldn't we have to be logged in all the time just to keep the theme we want? It would defeat our behaviour of not logging in unless necessary.

Also, I (occasionally) get logged out easily; I can log in, get a message, press view and it tells me I don't have permission to because I'm not logged in.

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by darkhalo191

My points below can be overruled if it is not a common behaviour.

What about members who only log in to post/check messages (like me)? Wouldn't we have to be logged in all the time just to keep the theme we want? It would defeat our behaviour of not logging in unless necessary.

I believe that is cookie based. As an experiment, I logged out, closed my browser, re-opened it, selected the blue skin and closed my browser again. It stayed blue when I returned.

Also, I (occasionally) get logged out easily; I can log in, get a message, press view and it tells me I don't have permission to because I'm not logged in.

Have you checked the "Remember Me?" box before you logged in? That'll keep you from timing out until you actually select "log out."

[Auxilism]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

I believe that is cookie based. As an experiment, I logged out, closed my browser, re-opened it, selected the blue skin and closed my browser again. It stayed blue when I returned.

Oh, I always saw, "All cookies cleared!" whenever I logged out so I didn't think about them.

Have you checked the "Remember Me?" box before you logged in? That'll keep you from timing out until you actually select "log out."

I didn't know about that (although it's right beside lol...) but I wouldn't select it anyway. Wouldn't want my account to be available to another person if I forgot to log out.

Furthermore, the session seems to destroy itself randomly. I could have thought about my post for ten minutes and post successfully or as above, it lasts for a few tens of seconds.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Haiprbim

Seeing someone register only after they have checked out the conversations around? That's new to me.

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

What?

I would think that people would register because of the quality of the conversations, not because of how the site looks (especially those that have lurked for awhile).

Also, please quantify the "because many do so."

I'm one of the people who joined for the conversation.
Originally registered here for Saimoe 2007, after following the talk in the thread for awhile. It's nice that Animesuki allows people to see the threads, even if they're not registered. Had fun in the discussions on other threads and not just the Saimoe thread, so I stayed even after Saimoe season was over.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Haiprbim

I've seen around that many just take a 5-second peek at the site and it is enough to make them register or leave.
There are many forums out there where you can discuss anime series, I do not think most people really want to take their time thinking which to pick. They probably pick the ones they think gave out the best visual impression. If the content and the community isn't good, they switch.
Again, the content and the community of AnimeSuki Forums are awesome, I just do not think the looks are really attractive to someone new. Of course, it is all down to personal opinion.

You know, just sayin', but look around at the most popular anime-centric forums on the Internet:

MAL
ANN
The Fandom Post
Mania (former AnimeOnDVD)
4chan /a/

(Am I missing something major?)

I suppose I'm biased, but I at least think we fare "favourably" in the visual department out of the most popular sites even the way it is now. And I don't think anyone has suggested that there is not room for improvement either, but we need a clear picture of what sort of design elements will make the site more appealing, and then what it will take to implement said design improvements. (And even just moving to vBulletin 4 or 5 doesn't automatically bring nothing but improvement either, though I'm sure we can learn from that and everything else that's out there.)


This whole thing is still rather "citation needed". Basically your assertion goes:

1. I think the visual look of the forum needs improvement
2. I've noticed that some first-time visitors make site decisions based on their first visual impression
3. Therefore, "some" first-time visitors are not sticking with the site because of the look
4. But we need more than just a look, we need a "new theme"

And then you make a bunch of assertions about what sorts of changes you think are needed, but I don't see how any of your suggestions make the site more appealing to new visitors. For example, you want to make it easier to notice you can sort the member list. And you want to move links to the main site and wiki up to the top, along with "Contact Us". Why? Neither the main site nor the wiki are all that active, and we don't really want people to "contact us" via email but to join the forum. And are new members really concerned with making it easier to sort the member list? I'm not saying that any of these suggestions are so horrible, but it simply does not follow; there's no causal relationship.


If we were to set as an objective: we want to improve the conversion of casual visitors to participating forum members. Then we need to ask ourselves: what are the major barriers that may prevent people from joining, and how can we make the process easier?

One suggestion I would make to improve conversion would be to put a prominent notice at the top for all visitors that says "Forum membership is free, and eliminates all ad links!". I think that alone presents a compelling benefit to visitors and once you're a member, you may at some point feel the urge to post. We could also put a list of "membership benefits" somewhere, so that people will see that, in addition to the ads going away, they can do other things like subscribe to their favourite threads. Being a member is actually very useful even if you just lurk this forum regularly.

Another thing we could do would be to make an easier guide to help introduce new users to the forum, with a sort of "things you need to know" presentation of the basic rules and introduction to the way the forum is organized. Sort of like a "Welcome Package". (NOTE: We do send a PM to new users right now, but it could perhaps be improved.) I think a lot of members have a bit of a rough transition into the forum if they don't take the time to lurk for a while and observe carefully all the rules. A lot of new members make "rookie mistakes" (like disregard the signature rules, or ask for licensed content, etc.) that may make them uncomfortable. Helping ease the transition may make it easier for a new member to get acclimatized more quickly and make them more likely to stay around.

Something we could do to help attract more visitors, which can assist with conversion to membership, is make it easier to share posts/threads on Social Media like Facebook, Twitter, Google+, etc. People "in the know" already know about the Link option at the top of a post, but it's a bit hidden/obscure. There are probably plugins even for vBulletin 3.8.x that could be considered to improve this and just present a straightforward "share" option. If we can become more recognized as a place where good conversation about anime happens, then people may be compelled to become part of the community.

And I'm sure there's a lot more; those are just three things off the top of my head. (Those aren't commitments either, just possibilities.) Maybe visual and structural changes are also a part of this, but we need some way of clearly defining the problem, proposing a solution that addresses the problem, and then measuring whether our solution is successful using empirical data. Otherwise, we're just shooting randomly in the dark and hoping something hits, and if we're doing that anyway, I'd tend to think that things like making the link between membership and eliminating ad links is a much easier sell than a new theme/redesign (where the effort/reward ratio isn't as clear).

[Haiprbim]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

Have you checked the "Remember Me?" box before you logged in? That'll keep you from timing out until you actually select "log out."

Originally Posted by darkhalo191

I didn't know about that (although it's right beside lol...) but I wouldn't select it anyway. Wouldn't want my account to be available to another person if I forgot to log out.

Furthermore, the session seems to destroy itself randomly. I could have thought about my post for ten minutes and post successfully or as above, it lasts for a few tens of seconds.

I would just like to add that if you ever choose to pick the "Remember Me" option, make sure you do it only on your personal computer, and not on public computers.
Although all the information usually gets automatically deleted there, it may still lead to some unwanted log-ins.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Haiprbim

Yes, I wanted the new theme to be set on default, as said multiple times in the thread already.

We've reached a chicken-and-egg scenario. You're calling for a new theme (in general, perhaps with nothing specific in mind), but people want an example to work off of. Yet to create a new theme, even a mockup, is a lot of work and nobody wants to do it unless there's a good chance that it will be put to use. The only way to move forward is for someone to put in the work or for examples to be given.

You may have a point that we could retain more users with a newer theme, but you're talking to users who have stayed on the site with the current theme. It's safe to assume that the majority of users on this site are content with the current theme. It doesn't mean that there's no room for improvement or that people will resist change, but it means that there are few complaints to work off of and hence we can't think of what an improvement would be. Further, while any web designers on the site may be able to envision an altered layout, many of us can't. I can color coordinate my clothes but if you told me to redo the color palette of the site I would not know where to begin.

Taking a screenshot of a website isn't ripping off their design or infringing some sort of copyright. If there is a site or multiple sites with design elements that you think would enhance the forum then please share them. There isn't really a discussion to be had otherwise.

[Haiprbim]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

You know, just sayin', but look around at the most popular anime-centric forums on the Internet:

MAL
ANN
The Fandom Post
Mania (former AnimeOnDVD)
4chan /a/

(Am I missing something major?)

I only visit MAL and have heard for 4chan, so I cannot say for any other.
However, MAL got a lot of users registered because of it's main focus, which is still the most active point there - The List of Anime and Manga series you have watched/read, will watch/read, ... meanwhile, I don't think we can say the same for AnimeSuki on the same level.
As many only wanted to share that in the first place, they joined at MAL. After doing so, they saw that they can discuss series there too. Maybe it is just me who thinks so, but I think that many people that found out about MAL and are discussing series there do not know for other forums.
Also, MAL has a public recorder on how many people checked your lists. Posting on the forums is a great way of luring people on your list and sizing the number.

I suppose I'm biased, but I at least think we fare "favourably" in the visual department out of the most popular sites even the way it is now. And I don't think anyone has suggested that there is not room for improvement either, but we need a clear picture of what sort of design elements will make the site more appealing, and then what it will take to implement said design improvements. (And even just moving to vBulletin 4 or 5 doesn't automatically bring nothing but improvement either, though I'm sure we can learn from that and everything else that's out there.)

I understand that, but I have started this thread purely to find out whether the community would want something like that and if it would be able to be done in the first place. If both would not be rejected right away, we could continue on, which you want to do now - seeing the theme itself. The issue is that I don't have it, we would need someone to create it. The thing is that up until now, I haven't yet heard a clear answer, but I'll assume I have it now.

This whole thing is still rather "citation needed". Basically your assertion goes:

1. I think the visual look of the forum needs improvement
2. I've noticed that some first-time visitors make site decisions based on their first visual impression
3. Therefore, "some" first-time visitors are not sticking with the site because of the look
4. But we need more than just a look, we need a "new theme"

1. More like an adding. If adding new things and keeping old ones at the same time is improving, then yes.
2. Correct.
3. No. If they register, they will probably check it out and see the discussions going on. The time before the registration is what I was focusing on, not short-time staying.
4. Yes, because I think that the crucial/big things are not really on a big display as they "should be".

And then you make a bunch of assertions about what sorts of changes you think are needed, but I don't see how any of your suggestions make the site more appealing to new visitors. For example, you want to make it easier to notice you can sort the member list. And you want to move links to the main site and wiki up to the top, along with "Contact Us". Why? Neither the main site nor the wiki are all that active, and we don't really want people to "contact us" via email but to join the forum. And are new members really concerned with making it easier to sort the member list? I'm not saying that any of these suggestions are so horrible, but it simply does not follow; there's no causal relationship.

When I focused on new members, I only focused on the visual impression. The organization would go for everyone.
As for why I would want to put links to Wiki and the Main Site on top, I have said that the Wiki could be put up to see if there will be any increase in activity, otherwise, it could be removed completely, as it has been said and thought about already.
Also, I have said that if this would in the very end take action, it would most likely be after the possible vB upgrading. Or, even better, after the Main Site would get the possible re-make (You already know about it). After the re-make, we would try to lure as many members on it as possible to hear the feedback and responses, wouldn't you agree?

If we were to set as an objective: we want to improve the conversion of casual visitors to participating forum members. Then we need to ask ourselves: what are the major barriers that may prevent people from joining, and how can we make the process easier?

I don't really see the converstaion of casual visitors to be much of an issue, but you probably know better.
The main focus was the issue of random guests not visiting or joining conversations or registering at all.

One suggestion I would make to improve conversion would be to put a prominent notice at the top for all visitors that says "Forum membership is free, and eliminates all ad links!". I think that alone presents a compelling benefit to visitors and once you're a member, you may at some point feel the urge to post. We could also put a list of "membership benefits" somewhere, so that people will see that, in addition to the ads going away, they can do other things like subscribe to their favourite threads. Being a member is actually very useful even if you just lurk this forum regularly.

Sweet-Point Luring is classic, but it always works, so fine with me.

Another thing we could do would be to make an easier guide to help introduce new users to the forum, with a sort of "things you need to know" presentation of the basic rules and introduction to the way the forum is organized. Sort of like a "Welcome Package". (NOTE: We do send a PM to new users right now, but it could perhaps be improved.) I think a lot of members have a bit of a rough transition into the forum if they don't take the time to lurk for a while and observe carefully all the rules. A lot of new members make "rookie mistakes" (like disregard the signature rules, or ask for licensed content, etc.) that may make them uncomfortable. Helping ease the transition may make it easier for a new member to get acclimatized more quickly and make them more likely to stay around.

A first-shot window pop-up could be found more useful.
Once a new member would join, he/she would be sent to his/her Profile or the Main Page where a window would pop-up (as it does for the PM notifications now), where the welcoming and help-links would be listed.
The member would have an option of preventing the window from appearing after he/she would think that everything was checked out.
However, keep in mind that "Too much intro-bugging" could have just a counter-effect, so we might want to keep balance and the final effect in mind.

Something we could do to help attract more visitors, which can assist with conversion to membership, is make it easier to share posts/threads on Social Media like Facebook, Twitter, Google+, etc. People "in the know" already know about the Link option at the top of a post, but it's a bit hidden/obscure. There are probably plugins even for vBulletin 3.8.x that could be considered to improve this and just present a straightforward "share" option. If we can become more recognized as a place where good conversation about anime happens, then people may be compelled to become part of the community.

If a site is open to famous social networks, it gets a big plus for it nowadays. It would certainly be a wise move to consider it a bit more.
As for the vBulletin 3.8x, may I ask, do you have it as a packed-run or can you open and possibly change the Source Code of it? A quick change may just be the change to some plug-ins woking out or not.

And I'm sure there's a lot more; those are just three things off the top of my head. (Those aren't commitments either, just possibilities.) Maybe visual and structural changes are also a part of this, but we need some way of clearly defining the problem, proposing a solution that addresses the problem, and then measuring whether our solution is successful using empirical data. Otherwise, we're just shooting randomly in the dark and hoping something hits, and if we're doing that anyway, I'd tend to think that things like making the link between membership and eliminating ad links is a much easier sell than a new theme/redesign (where the effort/reward ratio isn't as clear).

That's the thing, there is not really an issue around here, just some things that could get improved.
These forums are up and running for 12 years already (10 active years) and they get updated/changed quite rarely, resulting in all the issues existing being fixed long ago.
However, is being so Slow & Steady really good? Well, as I have said, since the forums' main focus is discussing anime series, which is not the site's creation but the studios' all around, it is not giving out a problem. However, when it comes to new visitors and competition, it might just become an issue that doesn't have anything to do with the site itself, but how other site's are effecting its members.
Again, the AS has great content and discussions going on, and the community is great, too. I have not heard of it yet, but as far as I know, there is not a really big competition over the members out there, that is if we are focusing on English Anime-focused Forums, so scratch what I've just said regarding it.

Anyhow, I am complicating things here.
I do realise that things get added, if added at all, pretty slowly here. However, what I wanted to share was something that is not really an issue for the already-existing members, but for those that could exist but do not.
In short, I wanted to know if you have the time and will to put the whole forums on a higher level, by that possibly obtain a bit more bugs to fix, but in the end, step up the development activity. The short time after the update could be a bit more risky as it is now, but as all the current things would be kept, only new added, I could see only good come from the change.
However, that of course all comes down to the Admins' time and how they feel the site's development should run.

Originally Posted by Ledgem

We've reached a chicken-and-egg scenario. You're calling for a new theme (in general, perhaps with nothing specific in mind), but people want an example to work off of. Yet to create a new theme, even a mockup, is a lot of work and nobody wants to do it unless there's a good chance that it will be put to use. The only way to move forward is for someone to put in the work or for examples to be given.

I first wanted a clear response whether it could be included in the first place, then continue with the discussion.
Again, it all started out from an idea. If the idea does not get rejected right away, we can expand it by sharing your own opinion.
So, giving out an example, if you would agree with a possible adding of a new theme, you could suggets what you would want it to look and be like, not just demand it and see what an end product would be like and then just say "Yes" or "No". That's plain useless.

You may have a point that we could retain more users with a newer theme, but you're talking to users who have stayed on the site with the current theme. It's safe to assume that the majority of users on this site are content with the current theme. It doesn't mean that there's no room for improvement or that people will resist change, but it means that there are few complaints to work off of and hence we can't think of what an improvement would be. Further, while any web designers on the site may be able to envision an altered layout, many of us can't. I can color coordinate my clothes but if you told me to redo the color palette of the site I would not know where to begin.

It is true that I'm saying this to the already-existing members, but only they are the ones that would be able to make this change, not the not-yet-existing ones, wouldn't you agree?
As the current theme would be kept and the existing members would not lose anything, it is all down to how much they care about obatining new members and how much they don't. That's the problem here, only the Admins or those who are bored of the current themes might be for the change, Admins to get more members and members to get a better theme. For everyone else, they will most likely reject everything that won't be in their favour and rather force their ideas, and I don't judge them for that.
Also, I did not quite understand the "color coordination" you have said, but the new theme would express the needed and mostly used gadgets and links more, if that is what you meant. In short, it would be easier to coordinate in it. However, as I know that quite a lot of older members already got used to current theme, we would keep them and they could use them. So again, I do not see a draw'-back here.

Taking a screenshot of a website isn't ripping off their design or infringing some sort of copyright. If there is a site or multiple sites with design elements that you think would enhance the forum then please share them. There isn't really a discussion to be had otherwise.

The thing is that we would have our own theme and it's own design, so I do not see a point of sharing some site's theme we wouldn't include?

[Triple_R]

Haiprbim... Let me use an analogy to show why your proposal isn't meeting with a better response.


Imagine a large bookstore in New York City. The bookstore has had thousands of customers, probably hundreds of regular customers.

One day you step into the bookstore, and you say "Excellent arrangement and selection of books here. Some great coffee table discussions in this bookstore amongst book readers. But the architecture and interior design of this store really needs to be modernized and made more flashy. It would attract way more regular customers that way!"

The store owner is skeptical of your claim, but willing to hear you out. He rightly points out that significant changes to the architecture and interior design of his store would take a lot of time and effort to implement.

Then you turn to some of the regular customers, who basically say, "Well, I'm fine with the look of this store, but maybe there's room for improvement. Can you give me some specific examples of how this store could be made more visually appealing?"

You respond by saying "What are you asking me for? I'm not the center of attention. You should ask yourself how this store can be made more visually appealing."

The regular customers reply with "How can you expect that of us? The vast majority of us are not architects or interior designers. We know what looks good to us when we see it, but we're not even amateurs in these fields, let alone experts. Surely you can show us some examples of this flashy, modern, stylish book store look. Just find photographs of bookstores that reflect what you're aiming for here, and show it to us."

But you continue to refuse to do so. You continue to put the onus on the customers to come up with an example of your own idea. That's... not going to fly very well.

If you want your idea to gain any traction at all, then you're going to need to start providing some examples.


Ledgem is completely right - There is no discussion to be had if you do not show us the design elements you'd like to see Anime Suki adopt.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Haiprbim

The thing is that we would have our own theme and it's own design, so i do not see a point of sharing some site's theme we wouldn't include?

You can post it for inspiration and to better exemplify what elements you feel should be added as part of a new theme : /

For example, you may want to use a texture for the background and a more exotic looking color palette; you can post an example you find appealing to give members a much better idea of what you're referring to.

Yet all you've really done is essentially point out things you claim as flaws, and for the most part, ask the community to come up with better design solutions. And, the few solutions you did bring forth only have your own personal anecdotal evidence as support for it actually attracting new members.

If you have an improvement in mind it would be a better idea to bring and example(or at least start one off yourself) and others will contribute with their critique or may even add their own examples. Posting/citing a good example of a theme idea you feel is better would go a long way, as it may inspire others to post their own, similar to the various “post a picture of [x] threads.”

[NorthernFallout]

I don't like to agree with T_R... But in this case, the analogy is spot on.

Originally Posted by Haiprbim

I understand that, but I have started this thread purely to find out whether the community would want something like that and if it would be able to be done in the first place. If both would not be rejected right away, we could continue on, which you want to do now - seeing the theme itself. The issue is that I don't have it, we would need someone to create it. The thing is that up until now, I haven't yet heard a clear answer, but I'll assume I have it now.

And yea, pretty much. You can continue argue back and forth, but you won't get anywhere at this point in time, I'd wager.

[Owlman]

Its as if he just took a user interface course(or read a book?), and is attempting to suggest “good practices” to the site (such as the contact us link, which he provided no practical reason for), he learned from the course/book.

Its kind of redundant to ask for feedback within a forum that already asks for site feedback. So, you should bring forward a theme you feel is much better than this one to start your thread off. This site uses a basic vbulletin theme that has been around for a while, so it shouldn't be that hard to top it with something you feel is better (no offense to anyone). You claimed to be “quite powerful” in other places, so why can't you simply ask one of those GFX designers you mentioned to create a basic sample, or simply show a slightly older sample of a previous work (like a limited screen-shot)? You claimed that you can find one to do the work for free, so surely getting a small sample shouldn't be that harder?

Can you cite one of those very large forums you are in charge of(or simply mod), to show your ideas at work? (you can pm the link)

[Haiprbim]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Haiprbim... Let me use an analogy to show why your proposal isn't meeting with a better response.


Imagine a large bookstore in New York City. The bookstore has had thousands of customers, probably hundreds of regular customers.

One day you step into the bookstore, and you say "Excellent arrangement and selection of books here. Some great coffee table discussions in this bookstore amongst book readers. But the architecture and interior design of this store really needs to be modernized and made more flashy. It would attract way more regular customers that way!"

The store owner is skeptical of your claim, but willing to hear you out. He rightly points out that significant changes to the architecture and interior design of his store would take a lot of time and effort to implement.

Then you turn to some of the regular customers, who basically say, "Well, I'm fine with the look of this store, but maybe there's room for improvement. Can you give me some specific examples of how this store could be made more visually appealing?"

You respond by saying "What are you asking me for? I'm not the center of attention. You should ask yourself how this store can be made more visually appealing."

The regular customers reply with "How can you expect that of us? The vast majority of us are not architects or interior designers. We know what looks good to us when we see it, but we're not even amateurs in these fields, let alone experts. Surely you can show us some examples of this flashy, modern, stylish book store look. Just find photographs of bookstores that reflect what you're aiming for here, and show it to us."

But you continue to refuse to do so. You continue to put the onus on the customers to come up with an example of your own idea. That's... not going to fly very well.

If you want your idea to gain any traction at all, then you're going to need to start providing some examples.


Ledgem is completely right - There is no discussion to be had if you do not show us the design elements you'd like to see Anime Suki adopt.

I've already got your point the first time.
Also, I never meant for you, the already-satisfied members to be the ones who have to make the new theme or come up with it - I told you we haven't even came that far yet before. At that time, I only opened up an idea and wanted to hear if something like that could be included regardless of what it would be. Now, as we have came to that point (I hope we have, there was no direct answer), we can proceed.

Let me use the same analogy for how I see the thread up until now. (Although I'm not really keen on doing it, but it sounds fun)

There is a large virtual bookstore, okay.
It has daily visitors that enjoy spending their time in it, just the way it is.

One day, a special someone comes up with an idea that the bookstore could attract more members if it would change the color of the walls and change the whole position of where the tables are, where the books are, where the bar is, ... in order to make everything look more attractive on the first look and things easier accessible for the first-timers, at least that is how he thinks. After spending some time in the bookstore and paying daily visits, they would check out other types of walls and room's organization by just clicking a button: the virtual bookstore would shift right away.

Now, that special someone wants to hear from the maintainers of the bookstore if that would be even possible to do, as the first thing he needs to know. He somehow works together on an answer, and just when that happens, we come into present.
However, while the special someone is trying to get the answer, daily visitors already want to skip one step and go directly to how things would look like. As the special someone wants to focus on clearing out the question of possibilities first, he doesn't share anything, and he also does not have it, he only has a pure suggestion and wants to clear some things out out: If something like that could be included in the future, if time and effort would work out, ... and only the maintainers would best judge that.

Now, if we get to the present, the special someone has collected quite some info, a lot of it was sadly not direct, but will try to put on some examples at last. He would be happy if before he would start, the regulars at the bookstore would tell him that they will add their own opinions and actually upgrade the thing, not just say "Yes", "No", or "Maybe a bit more...".
The special someone has noted that the whole bookstore may be moved from NYC (VBulletin upgrade) to another city, resulting in that if we would want to keep the theme for longer time, we would need to make it work on the new version as well, meaning double-work. However, as the regulars want to see the examples badly right away, he will see what he can do.

Result: Not a really clear answer to the first question and, at least for the special someone, skipping steps. He thinks that if things do go on like this, the whole thing will just end up in a decline and a failure.

Originally Posted by Midnight Commander

If you have an improvement in mind it would be a better idea to bring and example(or at least start one off yourself) and others will contribute with their critique or may even add their own examples. Posting/citing a good example of a theme idea you feel is better would go a long way, as it may inspire others to post their own, similar to the various “post a picture of [x] threads.”

I haven't had anything complete yet, but I can bring up some examples that could be like the suggested theme.
I do not have a specific look in mind, more like multiple, but I'll try to find a few and share the screenshots.

Also, I haven't started on anything because I wanted to get the question "Would such a thing be even able to be included, regardless of what the theme would be like?" answered before I would go on. That is because if the answer would be "No.", it would be pretty useless to go through quite some effort for nothing.
Now, why did it take so long to get an not-direct answer, I do not know, but we have gotten somewhere. At least two Admins have seen this thread and they do agree on some points, as you can see by reading their replies.

Also note that my way of thinking was: "If I do share examples right away, there is a high change that the members who won't find any profit from it, would just reject the thing or accept it, without trying to share their own thoughts or actually in-putting how the overall theme could be upgraded."
Anyhow, looks like I stand alone here against quite a few members that would want examples, so I won't argue. I'll give you what you want, but don't expect much if we will be skipping steps and going head-on, it will probably just end up in another dead suggestion.

Originally Posted by NorthernFallout

And yea, pretty much. You can continue argue back and forth, but you won't get anywhere at this point in time, I'd wager.

There is a difference between arguing and discussing, and I pretty much think I was discussing.
All I wanted to hear was an answer while members were pushing for examples. Okay, I'll give examples of what the theme could look like, but as I've said, don't expect much if we will just be skipping steps.
Also, if it took a lot of posts to get a step done, it doesn't mean we should just make up the lost time by swallowing a lot of things.

So, yeah, this looks like a bit argue-leading, so I'll just share examples.
I cannot do it today, but expect them some time soon and note that we would change them, they are not things that we would direct-input.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Haiprbim

One day, a special someone comes up with an idea [...]

So you say about yourself...

Anyway... we already have a fully-functioning multi-template/style supporting system right now, and we're willing to add a new template to it as an option. Run with that and take everything else out of your scope. Whatever upgrades may happen down the road will be considered by the staff and decided at a later time. If you wait for that decision, nothing will change, and that's basically your other choice.

[Haiprbim]

Okay, I've had to hurry and put something up in the library, so sorry for the bad quality, not much exmaples, ... (Am not a Windows user myself, so I had almost no idea what I was doing).

I have two examples of more darker themes. Or, to be more exact, their cuts.
Again, at the moment, I couldn't do a better job, and I have some personal issues why I cannot access my computer for the time being.
More colorful themes' exmaples shall be incoming shortly.

V1 Dark theme, Light characters:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

V2 Dark theme, Light characters:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

So, in short, I'll share full versions of the themes once I'll be able to access my computer and will, of course, share more of them with more colors.
If this would in the end come in action, note that all the hyper-links would be included at the places we would pick, and we would want to re-organize that as well, as pointed out in the first post of this thread. (That's why it would be great for me to share the full versions... )

[HasuMasu]

Personally I think this is a good example of forum style.

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