2013-04-04, 22:05 | Link #621 | |||
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Despite some disappointment, I am overall fine with Yuuno's small role in StrikerS, outside of combat. Sure, they could have had him on Midchilda and had a scene of him defending a church or hospital or something against drones. But not really needed. I understand what you're thinking, but plenty of other series have had a lot of people participating in combat. Given how slow some of the earlier episodes were, there was definitely some things that could have been cut for some more Yuuno and Arf. Quote:
All it means is that they move into the background for awhile. They can be brought back. I didn't receive any implicit message about them being not needed or anything. A story can easily be written that concerns danger in the library, bringing Yuuno some screentime. Or Arf has some familiar problem that brings her back, or danger threatens Karel and Liera and she has to defend them. I don't think I'm the only one who failed to get any implicit message, other than they would have interfered with NanoFate. And to be honest, I only got that message long after StrikerS, after learning there was a huge NanoFate faction, and the history and feelings behind all that. |
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2013-04-04, 22:09 | Link #622 | |
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2013-04-04, 22:09 | Link #623 |
Boo, you whore
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Which I kinda doubt, since there are many other anime that had long delays (or have) despite their overwhelming popularity. Haruhi (which was brought up several times earlier) and Shakugan No Shana are good examples of this (tho, it could be noted that the sales numbers for the third season of Shakugan No Shana were pretty subpar.)
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2013-04-04, 22:12 | Link #624 |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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You have a different view of shafted from my own. To me, shafted is being put on the bus, or at least inching ever so closer to it. If you mean "Did Nanoha develop enough in the first movie" then no, she did not.
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2013-04-04, 22:17 | Link #626 | |
Left for TFF
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Both Yuuno and Nanoha suffered from that in the 1st movie pretty badly.
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2013-04-04, 22:24 | Link #627 |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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Call it what you want then, but my point still stands that it was very possible to use some of the screen time she did have for development. Though I think more people appreciate Nanoha for her guts and fighting prowess than her development. So they're perfectly happy the way she was treated.
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2013-04-04, 22:39 | Link #628 | |
Left for TFF
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2013-04-04, 22:52 | Link #629 | |
Banned
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2013-04-04, 23:29 | Link #630 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tennessee
Age: 36
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So does Yuuno, come to think This leads me to the conclusion that many characters from the Nanoha franchise have pretty eyes. The only question that remains is whether this is a coincidence... or a conspiracy. |
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2013-04-05, 08:56 | Link #633 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Poor little lost Fate? Check.
Poor little lost Vita? Check. Poor little lost Subaru? Check. Poor little lost Teana? Check. Poor little lost Vivio? Check. Poor little lost Thoma? Check. Yup, fetish for tragic people in despair confirmed. |
2013-04-05, 11:15 | Link #634 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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People enjoy chocolate. That doesn't mean chocolate belongs on a turkey sandwhich.
Good Fate scenes and NanaFate scenes are good, but perhaps don't have a place in a movie (due to tight time-straints of the medium) where Hayate and the Wolkenritter are not only more important to the plot, but also didn't have a previous movie for major-character development time. I enjoyed the lengthy scene in the first Bayformers movie where the Autobots are ducking and twisting around the Witwicky house to avoid being seen by Sam's parents, but I would cut it out in an instant to have a character-building scene between the Tranformers. I likewise enjoyed all of the early scenes in which Bumblebee didn't let a lack of Volkswagon get in the way of roleplaying Herbie the Love Bug, but I'd likewise cut those scenes out in an instant to replace them with prologue scenes of Bumblebee having his voicebox ripped out by Megatron on Cybertron while he stalled him long enough to let the Allspark launch into space. Because I came to see a movie about the Transformers, not a "boy gets his first car" story. Or a romance story between The Human Buddy and his love interest. Mikelea's scenes were good, but they were unnecessary. * Likewise, I would watch the Second Nanoha Movie for Hayate and the Wolkenritter and the Book of Darkness, not for Fate. Fate and her relationship with Nanoha was the subject of the first movie, and any supplemental materials which might bridge the two movies, but was not the point of the second movie. * Sam should have been Spike Witwicky, greasemonkey and gearhead, and he should have been towing Bumblebee into battle while Optimus won the fight on his own (or with a heroic sacrifice from Jazz). Last edited by Sunder the Gold; 2013-04-05 at 14:57. |
2013-04-05, 11:25 | Link #635 |
Manus ad Ferrum
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Costa Rica
Age: 33
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Well, even if that is true I think could be bad writing rather than scenes than don’t belong there. For better or worse Nanoha and Fate’s relationship was a major theme on the previous Movie and just not addressing it at all will be odd, so scenes like those will be need to keep the theme going. If is for pointless scenes the Movie A’s had a lot of them that exited just to show some characters doing something and then jump in the next scene that has no relationship with the previous one.
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2013-04-05, 14:47 | Link #636 | ||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
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In this post, I refute both Kaijo AND Triple R regarding Arf and Yuuno.
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If seeing how Nanoha's and Fate's careers turned out was a "need", then Yuuno had that as well. His job as a Librarian is at least as important to the TSAB as Fate's job as an investigator or Nanoha's job as a trainer, and his combat skills are likewise just as valuable. Arf, by the way, was uniquely suited to follow Fate in her career path as an Enforcer. The drain of maintaining and fueling a powerful familiar would be neglible for a mage as powerful as Fate, considering that her job should NEVER involve battles so protracted where the drain would make a diffference. If anything, Arf would provide a way to use Fate's mana more advantageously, accomplishing twice as many things at once without needing to channel twice as much mana at once. Further, as a dog, Arf would make an excellent companion for investigating crimes on the ground, to say nothing of her combat support when arrests turn hairy. No one else would know how fight in concert with Fate so well. The investigative scenes that Fate should have had in StrikerS should have included Arf helping her with the leg-work of the case, and Fate's final battle with Tre, Sette and Jail should have included Arf as her partner. Arf's "developmental needs" would continue to grow after Fate takes Teana on as an assistant; the franchise would need to explore the relationship between the familiar and the apprentice, with Arf taking on a big sister role to the junior gingerhead. Quote:
His clan is the one big glaring angle. The clan that raised him yet left him feeling "all alone from the beginning". The clan that let him run after the Jewel Seeds alone without any support, and whom apparently haven't tried to contact him since. Did they all die? Did the news of their untimely deaths hit Yuuno hard? Are they still alive? What do they think of Yuuno's career choice? Even forgetting his clan, what sort of relationship did Yuuno forge with the Yagami family? He must have interviewed the Wolkenritter about their histories, and Hayate said she was going to enlist his help to create Reinforce Zwei. Vita should have gotten her rematch, and Shamal's and Zafira's areas of expertise are very close to Yuuno's own in their own ways. (Plus, Yuuno is the mage mostly likely to get tapped for teaching Signum, Vita and Zafira how to cast non-lethal capture-type spells.) Yuuno had a purpose from the very beginning of StrikerS thanks to the Relics. As the TSAB's foremost expert on Lost Logia, he should have been the one telling us whatever he knows about them. Likewise, he was a much better choice for teaching the Forwards about the specifics of defense spells. He would have been an excellent teacher for Caro on the finer points of being a Fullback. He could take Vice's place as the one who relates to Teana, if he's ever felt self-conscious about his deficiencies as a mage, or about how he compares to the elite mages whom are his closest friends. (This on top of replacing Vice as the man who transports the Aces and Forwards to the hotspots.) Quote:
Well, less so for Arisa and Suzuka; they already had career paths back on Earth which had nothing to do with magic or the TSAB. It made sense that they would just stay on Earth, which means that they had nothing to do with Midchilda or Jail. Quote:
The franchise already had Yuuno, and should have used Yuuno for anything that Vice did, as well as everything that Verossa did. Vice was the best thing to come from that mistake. Verossa was one of the worst. Quote:
It would be trivially easy to rewrite Fate's final battle such that Yuuno rather than Verossa is the one to save the day by stopping Uno from blowing the place up. Likewise, Arf could have assisted Fate against Tre and Sette before taking on both of them herself so that Fate could go after Jail. Or Arf (or Yuuno), rather than Vice, could have been the one who rescued Teana from that one last Number. Yuuno and/or Arf could have also replaced Vice as the one last mage left at Riot Force 6's base, defending Vivio. Or Yuuno or Arf could have replaced Sister Shache as the one who takes down Sein. That was really all Shache got to do in the season anyways, so what purpose did she really serve? Any faceless, nameless background body could have made and served tea. During the training episodes, Fate and Arf together could even have given Caro and Friedliche pointers on how a mage and her familiar ought to fight together as one. (Which would have doubled for exposition on the advantages of combat familiars.) And again, Yuuno was a natural choice for teaching Caro about how a support mage needs to fight, as well as teaching all of the Forwards about defense spells. Yuuno also had common ground with Caro, as one who grew up alone in a clan and was abandoned. Quote:
Or, "We're just not interested in these characters anymore, so rather than explore ways in which they can stay relevant, we're explicitly going to find ways and excuses to make them irrelevant." And before you say it, No, the creators being uninterested in a character doesn't make that character uninteresting. I'm not interested in Noir-style investigative crime dramas. That doesn't make the genre uninteresting; it only means that I would attempt to avoid writing for such a genre, or that my attempts at writing it would be lackluster without a change of attitude. Even if a character WAS uninteresting, ANY character can be made interesting by an author with any sort of talent or motivation. This is no different from how interesting characters can be made dull and one-dimensional by bad or bored writers. |
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2013-04-05, 16:52 | Link #637 | |||||||
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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I'm just going to address these two points, since I've wasted more than enough time with the former.
This is what I have a problem with. All these baseless assumptions while absolute refusal to believe any other possibility. Quote:
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Also that scene where Nanoha and Yuno were blushing at eachother, that wasn't throwing Yuunoha shippers a bone, that was throwing them a T-bone steak, and is exactly the kind of stuff the NanoFate shippers are revolted by. But alas, Tsuzuki did it anyways! And lets not forget that Subaru clearly had the hots for Nanoha, even if it was never reciprocated. Quote:
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Last edited by Demi.; 2013-04-05 at 17:36. |
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2013-04-05, 18:35 | Link #638 | |||
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...um, yeah. Even if we accept the tragic fetish angle, we have no backstory as to how she came to be that way, at least in the movies. In the series, she had her backstory with Arisa and Suzuka. In the movie, it's just Nanoha being seduced by eyes. Quote:
Well, the only major thing would have been to develop Nanoha and Yuuno romantically, but I think by that point, Tsuzuki realized the Fate fanatics would have never stood for that, so putting Yuuno on a bus was the only thing he could do, and then decided to just never address anything about Nanoha romantically at all. He doesn't really want to do two women, so subtext is all it is ever going to get to. But I do agree that Yuuno and Arf could have had some development. I don't think Yuuno could have replaced Vice, since Yuuno is a barrier mage and not a sniper, meaning he wouldn't have that link with Teana. On second thought, it might have made a nice development angle if he had injured someone when he was first learning shooting magic, and had made a vow long ago to never use it again. All the things you mentioned are good angles that could have been used, although I don't see Yuuno as a helicopter pilot. But that could be filled by Alto (and perhaps Arisa, per the below). But his clan wasn't mentioned in the movie. Although he would still have had to have a family, so I suppose they could have explored that angle some. Quote:
And that's how it will ever go; dangle the bell in front of their noses, but never pay it off. |
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2013-04-05, 18:49 | Link #639 | |
Ass connoisseur
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Florida
Age: 37
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I have a tragic fetish and no back story to go with it. Different strokes for different folks.
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