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Old 2008-07-29, 10:34   Link #201
Preston
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It was interesting if not amusing. I am by nature argumentative, and I haven't gone off on such a relieving tangent for a good long while. Was fun. But I'm just going to stop now, as things are on danger of becoming too defensive and too opinionated. Neither did I want this to break out from just my and Keroko's discussion.

And, also...

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I would prefer to see the guy get trodden on in his animal form. Although, changing the gender of a device would be more easily slipped by viewers than a character that has human form. But where would the motive be?
I earned "You are a lie as an author." neutral reputation on this post and I don't understand. Enlighten me? Have I hurt someone's feelings? Aw, look, I don't dislike Yunno that much, really. He's just a guy I love to hate And I never was keen on ferrets. Got "attacked" by one as a child.
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Old 2008-07-29, 10:38   Link #202
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From what I see (and the amount of screentime available), Alisa and Suzuka might be the first to take a hit, then followed by the Takamachi family being reduced in role, or all of them just reduced to mere cameos...

*shudders at the thought of 2006 CLANNAD*

But for 1st season, Yuuno is definitely a major player; if they want to save time further, they'd start in the thick of it, then flashback some time. If Nanoha starts with RH, then Yuuno disappears, but if Yuuno is the spark that directs Nanoha as always, then he will be there. At least for 1 movie.
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Old 2008-07-29, 10:43   Link #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preston View Post
It was interesting if not amusing. I am by nature argumentative, and I haven't gone off on such a relieving tangent for a good long while. Was fun. But I'm just going to stop now, as things are on danger of becoming too defensive and too opinionated. Neither did I want this to break out from just my and Keroko's discussion.
It was a good place to stop it.

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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
From what I see (and the amount of screentime available), Alisa and Suzuka might be the first to take a hit, then followed by the Takamachi family being reduced in role, or all of them just reduced to mere cameos...

*shudders at the thought of 2006 CLANNAD*

But for 1st season, Yuuno is definitely a major player; if they want to save time further, they'd start in the thick of it, then flashback some time. If Nanoha starts with RH, then Yuuno disappears, but if Yuuno is the spark that directs Nanoha as always, then he will be there. At least for 1 movie.
I think Arisa and Suzuka are more important characters then Nanoha's familly, which were mostly just winks to the original Triangle Hearts anyway. I'd expect her familly to have only brief cameos and appearances, or rather, less apearance then Arisa and Suzuka's appearances.
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Old 2008-07-29, 10:47   Link #204
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Ummmm....Can It Be Let's-Talk-About-Bardiche's-Kickass-Makeover-Time now? That is a fine device to take a few swipes at Nanoha's neck. Knowing that no one dies in Nanoha, I'm hoping that they at least show blood. Elfen Lied amounts of blood.
Bardiche certainly looks more deadly now, I think its an improvement.
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Old 2008-07-29, 10:55   Link #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
I think Arisa and Suzuka are more important characters then Nanoha's familly, which were mostly just winks to the original Triangle Hearts anyway. I'd expect her familly to have only brief cameos and appearances, or rather, less apearance then Arisa and Suzuka's appearances.
I forgot about Arisa's role in caring for Arf. ><

But I wonder... Would they be daring enough to edit almost everyone out of the story, and leave only say Chrono, Lindy, Amy, Nanoha, Fate, Arf and Precia? Something tells me this is remarkably possible, as I think there just aren't enough vocal support for Arisa and Suzuka...

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Bardiche certainly looks more deadly now, I think its an improvement.
It looks... bulkier, but it doesn't impress me like the Endless Waltz customs of the AC Gundams did.
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Old 2008-07-29, 11:15   Link #206
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I forgot about Arisa's role in caring for Arf. ><

But I wonder... Would they be daring enough to edit almost everyone out of the story, and leave only say Chrono, Lindy, Amy, Nanoha, Fate, Arf and Precia? Something tells me this is remarkably possible, as I think there just aren't enough vocal support for Arisa and Suzuka...
If the movie was 2 hours, I think they could keep everyone in(well, Nanoha's family might need some reduction). But they'd have to severely reduce(or speed up) the jewel seeds part, and definitely cut out the random monsters.

It depends on how many fight scenes they want to have in the movie. Even if they had 50 minutes worth of fight scenes, that'd leave 40 minutes(90 minute movie) or 70 minutes(for 2 hour movie) for dialogue.

For dialogue, everything said has to be important.

No saying things like: "Hello", or "Hi Nanoha", or "What's that", "What did you eat for lunch?", etc, everything has to be important(well, actually, just keep non-important stuff to minimum).

No stalling or "filler scenes". Instead of a 2 minute scene where you see Nanoha(and her classmates) in school, skip that or cut it down to 5 seconds.

Instead of taking 5 minutes for Nanoha and Yuuno to figure out how to transform, just a minute.

Well, actually, they don't have to rush it that much but if they speed up or reduce the Jewel seed parts, cut out the monsters entirely, and have little filler dialogue(not as extreme as I mentioned above) and "stalling" scenes, they could do it.
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Old 2008-07-29, 11:22   Link #207
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Originally Posted by Kha View Post
I forgot about Arisa's role in caring for Arf. ><


It looks... bulkier, but it doesn't impress me like the Endless Waltz customs of the AC Gundams did.
I prefer the size of the original blade over the new version, but I prefer the new versions shape.
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Old 2008-07-29, 13:02   Link #208
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Joining in a little late, but recap movies seem to be slightly AU and focus on what most people want.

My two cents: I'm a little worried Yuuno will get shafted. We have a few options

1.) Ferret form = friend
2.) human form= love interest.

Because, like most movies, they re-tell things and change things to make people want to watch it. Fate is an enemy so if Yuuno is a boy, then I think there will be a "girl meets boy, girl falls in love after action movie".

3.) Fate= love interest. Nanoha would have to have a crush at first sight I think, and it would be a "I saved your life" thing like the first season. But since this is before A's, where they were really friends, I can't really see this happening.

But in all, I'm concerned about Yuuno. Everyone knows I'm a Yuunoha supporter, but I don't really want to see them together. Nor do I wanna see Fate and Nanoha together in the movie.

Second movie, I do, though. That will be enough time to build a relationship.

I really hope they don't involve romance in the first movie, or one character is gonna get shafted, be it Fate or Yuuno. I am leaning toward wanting Yuuno as a ferret and at the end, show him as a boy. That would be okay :3
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Old 2008-07-29, 13:11   Link #209
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
*Watches on while hugging Vivio* Fate-fans are weird people.


By the looks of it, Nanoha's familly and Arisa and Suzuka are going to get the brunt of the ommiting, being that they weren't really important to the plot (Arisa discovering Arf is easy to work around). What is going to be really hard to properly display somewhat realistically is Nanoha's leaps in strength. In the series, they could use the "X-amount of time has passed between episodes" but timeskips in movies often feel weird. The Jewel Seed hunt also needs to be shortened immensely, probably catching all they need in a few flashes or the like.

However, while this does serve to shorten the anime, it still hasn't fixed the problem that Nanoha feels far more like a Magical Girl anime then the other seasons. Changes in plot that could fix this would be Chrono ariving sooner, or even Yuuno being send as a front officer of the TSAB himself, send to recruit people (random ideas, don't take them too seriously).

Oh wow, right, there's characters named Arisa and Suzuka. They got completely ommited from StrikerS....But there really should be a movie on the gap between A's and StrikerS, like exploring the missions that they did, and like the mission that Nanoha got uhh.....forgot the word...I'll just say bloodied.
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Old 2008-07-29, 13:21   Link #210
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On the whole 'relationship' angle thing on the true history or this eventual parallel history thing... true, the indications might lead to something different depending on the circumstances, but really, for all that it matters, one sign or another, it's take believe that the canon history has employed the middle ground stature above anything else. Say what you want about the animation or the fanservice, but that's the same as analyzing Nanoha's more awkward blushing body language with Yuuno or ignoring the backstory tidbits behind some of the more awkward things in animation.

Besides, IF we want to be wholly technical about the alternate timelines and all that, (( just as practiced at Outer Cadia on a daily cracky basis )), you might as well argue the possibility of Chrono as well, since well.... the alternate timeline where Fate didn't exist was him and Nanoha.

Point to point though... we're reading too much into this at this moment. What exactly does a parallel universe relate in Tsudzuki's words here, and how much different is this going to be for one. It is possible that in light of the shipping wars, it IS possible that this new medium can be used to highlight or purposely centralize something, be it NF or NY or whatever, as in something they're not intending to show in the true canon. However, a movie just for that does sound a little ridiculous, even if for NF's sake.

To be fair though, assuming this is true, I don't see why there is any need for arguments. I mean, it's kinda saying that 'everybody wins' on one universe or another. I mean... there's a reason there's alternate universes in FF and OC where things are... completely ridiculous, Hayuuno, Fatuuno or whatever. >.>

Above everything else, there is only 2 things I really ask out of this movie. Firstly, a well-paced and developed movie, and 2ndly, Nanoha's 'first true flight.' I always felt kinda cheated out that Nanoha's current 'true love' was one thing that never got an emotional expansion to it, and only explained via "Yuuno taught her how to fly, and Yuuno flashbacked once."

Nighty is still angry that SSX is not the movie.

btw... t-3 days to... tackling my HUEG backlog over at OC -_-
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Old 2008-07-29, 13:23   Link #211
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Originally Posted by Karlaxe View Post
Oh wow, right, there's characters named Arisa and Suzuka. They got completely ommited from StrikerS....But there really should be a movie on the gap between A's and StrikerS, like exploring the missions that they did, and like the mission that Nanoha got uhh.....forgot the word...I'll just say bloodied.
As i said earlier i would like to see a movie about what happened between A's and StrikerS, but i can understand the problem in that, since everyone goes different way there. Would be kinda hard to show what happened. The time line between A's and StrikerS is best covered in an OVA i think.
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Old 2008-07-29, 13:40   Link #212
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So, having said that, why is the contradiction of other material seemingly not an issue for you? I've seen the bad retcons, the 'no that never really happened, here's what really happened' ones. They're usually horrible, and make you feel like you're being treated like an idiot. Making NanoFate official from the get-go is complicated, because there is already existing material in the sequels that proves otherwise. Simply adding a few scenes and an 'I love you' may serve as a nice ship-tease for the NanoFate fans, but like I said before, when compared to the other canon, it'd definetely be AU (which really, was my point from the start: This movie is most likely going to be AU).
So what, StrikerS and A's don't take place in the same universe because they retconned the knights' power levels?

I'd vastly prefer to accept a little ambiguity or even be forced to ignore a few outright contradictions than hack the series apart in the name of eliminating them.
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Old 2008-07-29, 13:47   Link #213
Keroko
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The limiters were one of StrikerS faults, yes. Mostly because they had potential for plot, but were used in flimsy ways (seriously, you can edit out every time limiters are mentioned and nobody would even know the cast is limited at all). However, the difference between the limiters and the 'this-never-happened' retcon is that the later generally isn't explained. Limiters had a functional explanation, and didn't change anything regarding the storylines that came before it.
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Old 2008-07-29, 13:53   Link #214
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Problem with the limiters was how vague it was presented, making it hard to tell when they were released and when they were not. Though common sense should allow you to see between the lines... but that alone makes it the most useless plot device within StrikerS.

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So what, StrikerS and A's don't take place in the same universe because they retconned the knights' power levels?

I'd vastly prefer to accept a little ambiguity or even be forced to ignore a few outright contradictions than hack the series apart in the name of eliminating them.
What retcon? Speaking from the manga where it was mentioned they held back or limiters?
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Old 2008-07-29, 14:09   Link #215
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I really hope they don't involve romance in the first movie, or one character is gonna get shafted, be it Fate or Yuuno. I am leaning toward wanting Yuuno as a ferret and at the end, show him as a boy. That would be okay :3
Second the motion...or something like that...

Seriously though, I don't get how relationships will be playing a main part into this in the first place...all the "discussions" so far have flown over my head as some "dream" various fanboys want. There is no telling that the movie will even focus much on the romance aspect...which isn't even the main attaction for the series (though an underlying one ). I don't think that this remake will do much for the romance part unfortunately...in fact I don't even know the point of this besides milking, which is something I don't mind one bit before someone gets on my case

But it would be a surprise to see what aspects of the original stuff they are going to change...though one thing I won't want changing is any of the characters (something what Satashi said about "if Yuuno is a boy" seems to imply that he will be genderbending...die you rumors!).
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Old 2008-07-29, 15:00   Link #216
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What retcon? Speaking from the manga where it was mentioned they held back or limiters?
In the manga there's a pretty vague reference to the knights holding back, but then in one of the sound stages Signum specifically says that Fate can't properly be considered her rival because of the difference in their ability, and Fate makes that comment that she'll stop addressing Signum so formally when she can fight evenly with her, which Signum says is never going to happen (which I'd took as teasing, but it still gives the impression they both acknowledge a large gap).

I think it's pretty obvious that this was done to keep the Wolkenritter relevant in StrikerS- with their centuries of experience it'd be odd for them to improve as quickly as the novice Aces, so they need a head start to end up even.

Anyway, I think the retcon works pretty well with most of A's, but there's a definite contradiction in episode 7 when Signum's internal monologue right before her big fight with Fate gets interrupted reveals that she truly feels pressed, which flies in the face of the explanation given in the Sound Stages.
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Old 2008-07-29, 15:12   Link #217
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I don't think there will be any romance in this movie either, if anything its going to be the same as the series, a few suggestive scenes and such. I know this goes against my earlier statement, but during my discussion with Preston I realized that if they wanted romance, the first movie is the wrong place to do it.

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Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
In the manga there's a pretty vague reference to the knights holding back, but then in one of the sound stages Signum specifically says that Fate can't properly be considered her rival because of the difference in their ability, and Fate makes that comment that she'll stop addressing Signum so formally when she can fight evenly with her, which Signum says is never going to happen (which I'd took as teasing, but it still gives the impression they both acknowledge a large gap).

I think it's pretty obvious that this was done to keep the Wolkenritter relevant in StrikerS- with their centuries of experience it'd be odd for them to improve as quickly as the novice Aces, so they need a head start to end up even.

Anyway, I think the retcon works pretty well with most of A's, but there's a definite contradiction in episode 7 when Signum's internal monologue right before her big fight with Fate gets interrupted reveals that she truly feels pressed, which flies in the face of the explanation given in the Sound Stages.
Hmm, actually Signum says that 'if she doesn't finish it fast, she'll be in trouble' which makes sense, if she is holding back while Fate is going all-out, then Signum would eventually get in trouble.
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Old 2008-07-29, 15:16   Link #218
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How I see it.
Let me first say. That a movie like this, is nothing new. It has been done tons of times before. With good and bad results.

I think this is just a way of giving the fans more to look forward to. While in the meantime being busy with rethinking and making a 4th season. And I agree with the filling a gap part. It is definately too fil in a gap. Or at least show more hidden/possibile scenes that occured during that time. Even though they use the words of "not a true universe". Though there are other possibilities but these two are the most likely.

However since it's only around 2hours they have to pack it fast.

First of all. It's going to be based around the relationship of Nanoha and Fate. This will not be about fighting, alicia, suzuka, ferretboy, whatever. No it will be Nanoha and Fate centered. That's for sure. No they are not going to give Yuuno anymore change.

http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/ima...uncment_01.jpg
Why for the simple reason that Nanoha and Fate are a couple. They are pictured together from season 1 and even in the SS there is clear signs of this. Yes it's true(for all you Yuuno fans). 7 Arcs has made the seasons in such a way to grow closer to Nanoha and Fate and match them together. The didn't do this by mistake or anything. In fact no the realised that Nanoha and Fate where populair, selling good and are just a great couple. With Fate-Mama in StrikerS they absolutely triggered the lez-flag. And I am happy they aren't affraid to show/hint on lesbian relationship in an anime. I won't go into detail with the seiyuu but like Preston said both Seiyuus have now in one way or another confirmed NxF are a couple. And I agreed with alot of posts from Keroko as well.

So without any doubt the movie is an (alternate universe) of season 1. So it doesn't belong to the time lime. That's a little bit what is saddening me. I would have loved it to be genuine in a way. But it seems the wanted to upgrade the battle effects and devices as well, while they where going to show hidden scenes anyway.

Anyway this movie is going to be more Nanoha and Fate fluff. And I think in the end there may be a major climax in it. They might end in holding hands walking away(oh wait they allready did that ). Now we (as Yuri fans) all would like to know are they going to kiss in the end. You know the bridge scene and all(most probably it will happen there). I think the chance is high for this. Even considering there a populair yuri vid on nico(no not youtube). And considering they upped the Yuri scenes with every season.
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Old 2008-07-29, 15:49   Link #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yurichan View Post
How I see it.
Let me first say. That a movie like this, is nothing new. It has been done tons of times before. With good and bad results.

I think this is just a way of giving the fans more to look forward to. While in the meantime being busy with rethinking and making a 4th season. And I agree with the filling a gap part. It is definately too fil in a gap. Or at least show more hidden/possibile scenes that occured during that time. Even though they use the words of "not a true universe". Though there are other possibilities but these two are the most likely.

However since it's only around 2hours they have to pack it fast.

First of all. It's going to be based around the relationship of Nanoha and Fate. This will not be about fighting, alicia, suzuka, ferretboy, whatever. No it will be Nanoha and Fate centered. That's for sure. No they are not going to give Yuuno anymore change.

http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/ima...uncment_01.jpg
Why for the simple reason that Nanoha and Fate are a couple. They are pictured together from season 1 and even in the SS there is clear signs of this. Yes it's true(for all you Yuuno fans). 7 Arcs has made the seasons in such a way to grow closer to Nanoha and Fate and match them together. The didn't do this by mistake or anything. In fact no the realised that Nanoha and Fate where populair, selling good and are just a great couple. With Fate-Mama in StrikerS they absolutely triggered the lez-flag. And I am happy they aren't affraid to show/hint on lesbian relationship in an anime. I won't go into detail with the seiyuu but like Preston said both Seiyuus have now in one way or another confirmed NxF are a couple. And I agreed with alot of posts from Keroko as well.

So without any doubt the movie is an (alternate universe) of season 1. So it doesn't belong to the time lime. That's a little bit what is saddening me. I would have loved it to be genuine in a way. But it seems the wanted to upgrade the battle effects and devices as well, while they where going to show hidden scenes anyway.

Anyway this movie is going to be more Nanoha and Fate fluff. And I think in the end there may be a major climax in it. They might end in holding hands walking away(oh wait they allready did that ). Now we (as Yuri fans) all would like to know are they going to kiss in the end. You know the bridge scene and all(most probably it will happen there). I think the chance is high for this. Even considering there a populair yuri vid on nico(no not youtube). And considering they upped the Yuri scenes with every season.
As much as it pains me to say this: I hope not, and I'm as pro-yuri as you can get and a Nanofate fan. I'm not alone in this, but I got sucked into Nanoha by a fast-paced story and the Pink Doom Beams of Befriending. The Yuri subtext was a bonus. Big one, yes, yet still a bonus. I would be very disappointed if the movie was a relationship movie in the same way I would be disappointed if the TTGL movie focused on Nina and Simon.
MGLN is an action show first and delicious subtext second. In the words of my Nanoha pusher, the show is "Sailor Moon done right."
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Old 2008-07-29, 16:19   Link #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yurichan View Post
How I see it.
Let me first say. That a movie like this, is nothing new. It has been done tons of times before. With good and bad results.

I think this is just a way of giving the fans more to look forward to. While in the meantime being busy with rethinking and making a 4th season. And I agree with the filling a gap part. It is definately too fil in a gap. Or at least show more hidden/possibile scenes that occured during that time. Even though they use the words of "not a true universe". Though there are other possibilities but these two are the most likely.

However since it's only around 2hours they have to pack it fast.

First of all. It's going to be based around the relationship of Nanoha and Fate. This will not be about fighting, alicia, suzuka, ferretboy, whatever. No it will be Nanoha and Fate centered. That's for sure. No they are not going to give Yuuno anymore change.

http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/ima...uncment_01.jpg
Why for the simple reason that Nanoha and Fate are a couple. They are pictured together from season 1 and even in the SS there is clear signs of this. Yes it's true(for all you Yuuno fans). 7 Arcs has made the seasons in such a way to grow closer to Nanoha and Fate and match them together. The didn't do this by mistake or anything. In fact no the realised that Nanoha and Fate where populair, selling good and are just a great couple. With Fate-Mama in StrikerS they absolutely triggered the lez-flag. And I am happy they aren't affraid to show/hint on lesbian relationship in an anime. I won't go into detail with the seiyuu but like Preston said both Seiyuus have now in one way or another confirmed NxF are a couple. And I agreed with alot of posts from Keroko as well.

So without any doubt the movie is an (alternate universe) of season 1. So it doesn't belong to the time lime. That's a little bit what is saddening me. I would have loved it to be genuine in a way. But it seems the wanted to upgrade the battle effects and devices as well, while they where going to show hidden scenes anyway.

Anyway this movie is going to be more Nanoha and Fate fluff. And I think in the end there may be a major climax in it. They might end in holding hands walking away(oh wait they allready did that ). Now we (as Yuri fans) all would like to know are they going to kiss in the end. You know the bridge scene and all(most probably it will happen there). I think the chance is high for this. Even considering there a populair yuri vid on nico(no not youtube). And considering they upped the Yuri scenes with every season.
You know, there's some clear contradiction in saying that the movie will be Nanoha and Fate centric and not about fighting . Their relationship during the majority of the first season is purely fighting. Unless they completely rewrite the story it's basically impossible to avoid having the two blow the crap out of each other.
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