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Old 2011-04-18, 20:21   Link #241
Nemuru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
True but to me that's prob the amount spent on supper and not lunch. I was brought up differently.

You can buy a McDonald's meal (Big Mac, fries, medium soda) for $5.19 plus tax in the US. We have food options that can go cheaper.

McDonalds Japan seems to have some 200 yen items on sale for a limited time. Sukiya, a competitor is also having a sale. Even Sukiya has competitors. So it's not like a cheaper menu isn't available.
hmmm..... beside some comparison between the standard of living between the two. It doesn't really justify she's (Hanabi) is rich by any means. I'm sure most people can afford a meal such as her on a daily basis.

While I haven't gotten into this debate at the start but which side are you on? since the difference between the two isn't much but at most highlights that Kimimaro is slightly poorer and tends to save more, considering that he is living on his own which is well explain in the series as a reason for his sense of finance...

I do however think you're making a very large assumption and many of these can be trace back to her still living with her parents as another source of her income but if your reason for posting is to say her meal is a bit expensive I'm not not going to say anymore.
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Old 2011-04-18, 20:22   Link #242
Random32
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Are we forgetting that this takes place in a place whose economy is different from today's Japan?

"The Japanese government was rescued from the brink of financial collapse by the Sovereign Wealth Fund. For its citizens, however, life has not improved, and unemployment, crime, suicide, and despair are rampant"

$8 might very well be considered five star restaurant expensive food due to everyone lacking money. It could also be dirt cheap due to rampant inflation.

How much should a Tokyo dweller working two part times and saves far more than average have in their account? Scale accordingly.
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Old 2011-04-18, 20:28   Link #243
orion
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Originally Posted by Nemuru View Post
hmmm..... beside some comparison between the standard of living between the two. It doesn't really justify she's (Hanabi) is rich by any means. I'm sure most people can afford a meal such as her on a daily basis.

While I haven't gotten into this debate at the start but which side are you on? since the difference between the two isn't much but at most highlights that Kimimaro is slightly poorer and tends to save more, considering that he is living on his own which is well explain in the series as a reason for his sense of finance...

I do however think you're making a very large assumption and many of these can be trace back to her still living with her parents as another source of her income.
I'm not on any side as this is only ep. 1.

MC spent his money on that civil service exam study guide. So it's prob there but he's picking and choosing what to spend it on. Also, he's in a furnished apartment so that's not cheap either.

Hanabi has inconsistencies. Just pointing it out. Even if you live with your parents, you're still going to be packing your lunch or eating cheaply or having other ways of affording your lifestyle (work etc.). It's only ep. 1 so there's more time to see how she develops.
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Old 2011-04-18, 20:36   Link #244
Nemuru
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
I'm not on any side as this is only ep. 1.

MC spent his money on that civil service exam study guide. So it's prob there but he's picking and choosing what to spend it on. Also, he's in a furnished apartment so that's not cheap either.

Hanabi has inconsistencies. Just pointing it out. Even if you live with your parents, you're still going to be packing your lunch or eating cheaply or having other ways of affording your lifestyle (work etc.). It's only ep. 1 so there's more time to see how she develops.
episode one only shown us 1 day or maybe 2 perhaps? As most I wouldn't use it as a consistent pattern to argue a point.... although she does goes to mixer but what university student doesn't?

as for your last paragraph excluding the debate.. I'm kinda worried about her involve because her character doesn't appear much in promotions... I hope she doesn't get sideline as a plot device character...
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Old 2011-04-18, 20:43   Link #245
orion
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Originally Posted by Nemuru View Post

as for your last paragraph excluding the debate.. I'm kinda worried about her involve because her character doesn't appear much in promotions... I hope she doesn't get sideline as a plot device character...
Masakaki would prob use/destroy her ala Kyubey to drive the MC further into the Financial District. Nothing like a shot of revenge to spur someone to action.
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Old 2011-04-18, 21:46   Link #246
lordshadowisle
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The first episode was a whole lot of smoke and mirrors, and not a lot of substance, at least from my point of view. Too many questions and not enough answers makes this anime appear pretentious; if things don't get explained or fleshed out more then I can't take it as any more than a shounen fighting/fantasy draped up in some fancy financial setting.

My impression is only based on the first episode though.
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Old 2011-04-18, 21:59   Link #247
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by lordshadowisle View Post
The first episode was a whole lot of smoke and mirrors, and not a lot of substance, at least from my point of view. Too many questions and not enough answers makes this anime appear pretentious; if things don't get explained or fleshed out more then I can't take it as any more than a shounen fighting/fantasy draped up in some fancy financial setting.

My impression is only based on the first episode though.
lolwut

They only managed to set up the themes and setting of the story. You're expecting way too much from just a mere episode.
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Old 2011-04-18, 22:47   Link #248
Nemuru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordshadowisle View Post
The first episode was a whole lot of smoke and mirrors, and not a lot of substance, at least from my point of view. Too many questions and not enough answers makes this anime appear pretentious; if things don't get explained or fleshed out more then I can't take it as any more than a shounen fighting/fantasy draped up in some fancy financial setting.

My impression is only based on the first episode though.
I will have to disagree that it feels pretentious at least within the definition of pretentious, Its actually straight forward with the jester playing the devils advocate in seducing the MC with greed, wealth and desire hence therefore I feel the MC development will be more important than the battle itself. Because it's only the first episode we don't know how much focus the battle will take up but however Kenji Nakamaru is directing, my expectation is it will be more than just a shounen fantasy fight series.
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Old 2011-04-18, 22:49   Link #249
FatPianoBoy
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I'd call the way-too-long cold opening 'pretentious,' but the rest of the episode wasn't.
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Old 2011-04-19, 01:38   Link #250
Asterisk
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The show has a unique and interesting theme considering it as an anime. I would've liked the show more if it was more focused on the financial/technical side of things.
Right now it seems like it'll evolve into a more fantasy/action anime with basic economics as a backdrop.
But I guess the latter would appeal to a larger audience so I can't really say anything.
Overall I'm liking the show, seems pretty good.

On another note, how can the MC, being an economics student, not know what an entrepreneur is...
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Old 2011-04-19, 01:40   Link #251
TinyRedLeaf
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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
On another note, how can the MC, being an economics student, not know what an entrepreneur is...
My thoughts exactly.

If that's meant to be an accurate reflection of college education in Japan, it's no wonder the country is in the mess that it has been since the 1990s.

As for the accusation of pretentiousness, at this point, I would tend to agree with that view. It remains to be seen how the setting will be developed, and I do hope that the "financial district" turns out to be a plausible metaphor for things as they are in the real world. By that, I don't mean that it has to be depressingly realistic like the dystopian world of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. Even a whimsical world, like Summer War's Oz, can "work" if it hangs upon a consistent, sustainable theme (in that movie's case, that of family and human connection).

As it stands at the moment, [C]'s "financial district" seems like no more than a gimmicky device. There are plenty of things that could be explored, and which I hope the story develops further, such as the idea of what "money" is, and how mortgaging your future (one's "potential", as Masakaki puts it) is really not that different from how things actually work in modern finance.

I wish I could be more optimistic, but after the train wreck that was Fractale, I think it's probably better that I don't hope for too much in the way of thought-provoking exposition.

Besides, I'd readily concede it's more fun to imagine every entrepreneur having his own sexy satyr for a familiar, than to spend hours debating economic theory and practice.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2011-04-19 at 01:51.
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Old 2011-04-19, 03:18   Link #252
jtstellar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post

On another note, how can the MC, being an economics student, not know what an entrepreneur is...
cus it was said in english?

btw anybody know if that's an adam smith quote at the beginning? the invisible hand
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Old 2011-04-19, 07:26   Link #253
Arabesque
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Well then, now that we are now back to actually talking about the show and not whatever that was
Quote:
Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
@Arabesque: hmm. My opinion is entirely opposite. I thought they are trying hard to make sort of serious+DEEP philosophies on money with that Kyuube the human form, Ichika with no harem+ other situations. But ultimately, the way to earn money was actually 'beating up monsters' at least according to this first episode. I can't buy that.
I don't think our opinions are really that different.

I agree with you that the show is obviously trying to hammer in this idea that's its about money in a very blunt manner, and that it's throwing these rather pretentious speeches about money et al.

Where we differ, I think, is on whether or not the show is actually is deep as it says it is, and that I personally think that it's putting on a facade of being this ''Code Geass-lite'' show.

Like I pointed out in my first post, you had scenes like the suicide, where there was a cleaver way in showing how money affected humanity so much, that when someone kills themselves people would go ''well, the economy looks like its shit about now'' now this is a really subtle way of showing how money affecting the human soul. So the show isn't entirely all talk imo.

And then where we might disagree the most about, that I think the show is just putting on an act. I wont rule out the possibility that I might be wrong and this show is just as ludicrous as Code Geass, but I honestly think that those parts are there to make the show appear as something shallow when its actually quite deep. That of course depends where it's going from this point on, but I remain hopeful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
On another note, how can the MC, being an economics student, not know what an entrepreneur is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
My thoughts exactly.
If that's meant to be an accurate reflection of college education in Japan, it's no wonder the country is in the mess that it has been since the 1990s.
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Originally Posted by jtstellar View Post
cus it was said in english?
I don't know, is it really that much of a shock? I've seen Business Students struggling to even remember the proper pronunciation, let alone definition, of entrepreneur. It could just mean I've grown so numb to the concept that students lack any proper background knowledge nowadays.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
I wish I could be more optimistic, but after the train wreck that was Fractale, I think it's probably better that I don't hope for too much in the way of thought-provoking exposition.
Let's be fair here, the reason why Failctale Fractale had failed had less to do with the actual content and more to do with the internal drama within the staff. It already had all the proper components to make an interesting story all set, but when you have a director already pessimistic about his um ''career'' lol and already looking for a way out, a writer who has clear disdain for said director, going even to insult him publicly from the moment the show went on air, to the end where he more or less threw him under a space shuttle, and the constant controversy surrounding the show ...

That's not to say that [C] might turn out to be nothing but fluff, though I doubt it considering what we've seen in this episode and Kenji Nakamura being at the helm.
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Besides, I'd readily concede it's more fun to imagine every entrepreneur having his own sexy satyr for a familiar, than to spend hours debating economic theory and practice.
I tell you, I would've went down that path if it came with a free Succubus

Realistically though, I don't think I would make many great decisions, or pay attention to anything really. But I think it would've been fun.
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Old 2011-04-19, 07:52   Link #254
blewin
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don't quite get the story... so what's the point of this system/game? what is this other world?
confusing stuff but intriguing enough an opening for me to follow the story. Let's hope it won't disappoint.
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Old 2011-04-19, 09:53   Link #255
sapphire-pyro
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@ Kimimaro not knowing what an "entrepreneur" is
That made me puzzled as well at first, but later I think it might have somethign to do with education in Japan too, or could also be because not all graduates aren't really that knowledgeable of the major they took up ^^;

@ Fractale
It disappointed me as early as chapter/episode 1. The waste of potential still saddens me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordshadowisle View Post
The first episode was a whole lot of smoke and mirrors, and not a lot of substance, at least from my point of view. Too many questions and not enough answers makes this anime appear pretentious;
If I understood your point correctly, [C] has become "pretentious" just because it raised more questions than answers on its first episode?
If yes.... then what about all those mystery-centric anime? They can't be a mystery series/film if they have nothing which is mysterious (because the answers are still a mystery) in the first place o_O
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Old 2011-04-19, 10:02   Link #256
-Sho-
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Wait for more. The 1st ep was kinda wtf. Charac design is "ok" but sometimes really bad. Story looks interesting though.
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Old 2011-04-19, 10:06   Link #257
totoum
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Anyone else found the line in the ED "ED sequence for noitamina 26th episode...has no name but it called "C"". Really badass?I can't explain why but I love it.
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Old 2011-04-19, 10:40   Link #258
Wakan Tanka
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Not knowing what Entrepreneur means is like, who cares, money is all that matters in the end, IMO.

Besides, he seems pretty sluggish when it comes to studying, he's skipping classes and he forgot to take the notebook from his classmate so she had to come over where he works (he who needs the notebook forgot about it ). On the top of that, he himself said "I didn't learn a word" when he woke up..so how the heck do you expect someone as sluggish as this to know the word "Entrepreneur"?!?
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Old 2011-04-19, 11:07   Link #259
orion
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Originally Posted by Wakan Tanka View Post
Not knowing what Entrepreneur means is like, who cares, money is all that matters in the end, IMO.

Besides, he seems pretty sluggish when it comes to studying, he's skipping classes and he forgot to take the notebook from his classmate so she had to come over where he works (he who needs the notebook forgot about it ). On the top of that, he himself said "I didn't learn a word" when he woke up..so how the heck do you expect someone as sluggish as this to know the word "Entrepreneur"?!?
Like what was said above, it was spoken in English.

Besides, lots of people who are stressed when studying from an exam can wake up in his exact situation. Masakaki was a huge distraction.
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Old 2011-04-19, 11:20   Link #260
TinyRedLeaf
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Originally Posted by Wakan Tanka View Post
Not knowing what Entrepreneur means is like, who cares, money is all that matters in the end, IMO ...how the heck do you expect someone as sluggish as this to know the word "Entrepreneur"?!?
He's an economics major. If he doesn't even know one of the four factors of production, then I fear for his academic future, let alone his hopes of becoming a civil servant.

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Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
I don't know, is it really that much of a shock? I've seen Business Students struggling to even remember the proper pronunciation, let alone definition, of entrepreneur.
You echo an interesting point that SeijiSensei made to me recently, about the relative lack of entrepreneurial zeal in Japan. I'd leave it to him to present the point, if he feels like it.

I think it's only in America where business studies is regarded highly. As a business and computer-science undergraduate in Britain, some 15 years ago, my dorm-mates majoring in economics used to scoff at business studies as "economics lite".

They did have a point, I felt. Certainly, in terms of quantitative rigour, economics hits a lot harder than the fuzzy-wuzzy strategy case studies I poured over in business classes. Granted, this may be more a reflection of how business is taught outside the United States, than on the nature of business studies itself.

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I tell you, I would've went down that path if it came with a free Succubus.
Heh, thanks for reminding me that satyr are only male. Yes, I very much look forward to having my own personal sex slave succubus in the gilt settings of the financial district. And I think I'd fare above average (assuming that fighting prowess there is proportionate to one's entrepreneurial ability in real life), at least for a while, even if I doubt I'd be a top player.

Since we're venturing into more worthwhile discussion, I might as well point out that I do enjoy the many allusions to hell, from the number of the beast to Masakaki's role as the "devil" who tempts. It ties in with the popular idea that "money is the root of all evil", even while we can't seem to live without it.

(Which reminds me, I got to get around to reading The Ascent of Money by Niall Ferguson. It's been sitting on my shelf for too long.)

Even more interesting is the use of "hell notes" in the district. I'm referring to the paper currency that Q eats, for example. Seems to me that the device is inspired by the Chinese tradition of burning such currency as offerings to dead ancestors, in the superstitious belief that they need money to spend in hell.

Which always lead me to wonder about the rate of inflation down below, given that people usually burn notes in denominations of thousands, if not tens of thousands.
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