The statues of the Valley of the End

[Medalist]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

You would hope so. He doesnt. Even by your own theory, there was about 2 ~ 3 Manga arcs between Madara and VoTE. Way out of your range.

And Kish is known to modify the story due to fan response. Give some more chars screentime, cut others out. Sasuke being the #1 Fangirl wetdream is a key reason to why we keep seeing the shameless boy topless in nearly every other chapter.

Spoiler for manga:

Gaara didnt die due to fan response iirc. Not sure where I saw that though, so I wont use it as concrete evidence. Just something to keep in mind.

Either way, storylines change due to fan response in MASS VOLUMES. If Kish is bout to kill Deidara and he get 200K+ fan letters expressing their displeasure, be rest assured he will pull a wtf-no-jutsu and save Deidara till later on in the manga.
Whatever planning and story he had for "10+ ~ 15 chapters" is out the window. Its that simple.[/spoiler]

Haha...he'd still kill Deidara anyway. The fans rarely alter Kishi's decisions. Sasuke is just known to be loved by the fan girls. Thus Kishi puts him like that to fit his personality to "others"

I bet you never realized that the fans don't get paid to come up with a multi-million dollar making series?

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu

Kishi Knew about Madara and his (for the most part design) before Naruto and Sasuke fight in the Valley of the End. Otherwise he would've winged it for the setting. But other than that, anything prior to Itachi and Kisame(technically) fighting Gai and Kakashi...was most likely already thought up

Who is to say he didn't wing it for the setting? Its clowns that keep assuming the statue in VoTE play some UBER BIG ROLE near the end of the manga or something.

Theres the Statues of the 4 Hokages overlooking Konoha. One was alive at the beginning, and 2 were revived so we got to see them alive. We can easily bullshit and say because of that, we know the 4th is either alive or will return to life later on. Doesn't make it true, but its even more plausible than this Madara nonsense that keeps floating around.

VoTE to me is the last place the founders of Konoha had their last major battle, pushing out opponents to create the very end / border of Konoha. The two original guardians constantly standing over the edge of Konoha, still on guard. It makes more sense than Madara, but obviously it has nothing to do with Uchiha, sex with demons or sharingan so everyone will overlook it and say is still Madara. -_-

PS.
You all forget a few fatal flaws in your bullshit theory.
1.) Madara had a sharingan. (keep this one in mind ok?)
2.) Sharingan spawned from Byakugan.
3.) Byakugan was from a KONOHA CLAN.
4.) The clan won't have existed before Konoha. They got there AFTER KONOHA WAS CREATED.
5.) Shanrigan spawning from Byakugan means Madara came AFTER the creation of Konoha. Not before. Thats not Madara at VoTE. Else the entire manga timeline is off-whack. Its just that simple.

Either Kish lied about the SHaringan basis, the Byakugan user clan history and the origin of Konoha (which is the only way Kish could make it possible for that statue to be Madara) or its not Madara and you guys are clinging to thin air as always.

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu

Haha...he'd still kill Deidara anyway. The fans rarely alter Kishi's decisions. Sasuke is just known to be loved by the fan girls. Thus Kishi puts him like that to fit his personality to "others"

I bet you never realized that the fans don't get paid to come up with a multi-million dollar making series?

Where is the multi-million dollars coming from? If he makes the mistake of killing Sasuke early, his fanbase dissolves. He isn't stupid enough to kill a very popular character. Even if he had planned to originally. He needs to come up with a BS trick to save em.

[Medalist]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

Where is the multi-million dollars coming from? If he makes the mistake of killing Sasuke early, his fanbase dissolves. He isn't stupid enough to kill a very popular character. Even if he had planned to originally. He needs to come up with a BS trick to save em.

Why would he kill Sasuke anytime soon? He's tied into the plot deeply. Atleast up until the deed is done with Itachi.

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu

Why would he kill Sasuke anytime soon? He's tied into the plot deeply. Atleast up until the deed is done with Itachi.

Spoiler for Deidara:

Im just saying. Deidara's usefulness was over since the Gaara-Naruto business. Yet hes still here ... and its just coincidence noone on top 5 by fans ever die?

[Medalist]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

Spoiler for Deidara:

Im just saying. Deidara's usefulness was over since the Gaara-Naruto business. Yet hes still here ... and its just coincidence noone on top 5 by fans ever die?

And you wonder why they are main characters, or ones tied to the plot.

Spoiler for new character:

Like say Sai.

[MobiuS]

Spoiler for new character:

Im sure Sai is so critical to the plot its not even funny.
-_-

He was a replacement Sasuke for Team 7 with an even wierder personlity quirk. He had absolutely no usefulness beyond delivering the note to Orochimaru. He wound up not dying unlike the other "arc character fillers" like Chiyo-ba, Sound 5 and so on.

[Medalist]

How about we kill Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, Kakashi, AL, Mysteriuos member....and call it a day, while Madara and Shodai are still the statues of the Valley of the End.

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by Uchikatsu

How about we kill Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, Kakashi, AL, Mysteriuos member....and call it a day, while Madara and Shodai are still the statues of the Valley of the End.

Im glad you've decided to stop trying to make sense and just let everything that passes through your mind out on the forum. However the post makes no sense and has no relevance to the topic so ... try next time not to spam and have a point with the post.

Spoiler for new character:

Tobi does nothing. No point in him existing. Its not too late for him to die in an explosion of c4.

Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura and Kakashi are origianl Team 7. They aren't dying before most other ninjas.

Mysterious member and AL havent been fully revealed. How are they going to die unrevealed?

What exactly is your point on the last part? Are you admitting to believing Kish screwed up the entire beginning timeline / facts he gave us so you can conveniently put Madara at VoTE so it can match your theory with no proof, or that Madara isnt the one at VoTE?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

You would hope so. He doesnt. Even by your own theory, there was about 2 ~ 3 Manga arcs between Madara and VoTE. Way out of your range.

I don't see how a coherent story could be written by planning from scratch 3 to 5 weeks in advance. Changes and additions can be made during the course of an arc, but the major plot points are laid out well before the material is published.

And Kish is known to modify the story due to fan response. Give some more chars screentime, cut others out. Sasuke being the #1 Fangirl wetdream is a key reason to why we keep seeing the shameless boy topless in nearly every other chapter.

Spoiler for manga:

Gaara didnt die due to fan response iirc. Not sure where I saw that though, so I wont use it as concrete evidence. Just something to keep in mind.

Either way, storylines change due to fan response in MASS VOLUMES. If Kish is bout to kill Deidara and he get 200K+ fan letters expressing their displeasure, be rest assured he will pull a wtf-no-jutsu and save Deidara till later on in the manga.
Whatever planning and story he had for "10+ ~ 15 chapters" is out the window. Its that simple.

Spoiler for future events:

I think it's just as likely that he never intended for Gaara or Deidara to die in the first place. Not many people were happy about Oro's death. Does Kishi plan to bring him back? Who knows? But for now he's dead and it appears it will be that way for a while. I doubt Kishi's immediately going revoke his decision because of some upset fans. Oro's defeat was necessary for the plot, and that takes precedence over the immediate wishes of fans. As for giving more screentime to characters due to popularity, I don't think it holds as much influence as you think it does, or else we wouldn't be seeing so many posts about how Neji, Hinata, Rock Lee and Shino are being neglected.

But that's all beside the point anyway. You're saying speculation that Madara is one of the statues can't be valid because Kishi hadn't come up with the character before the battle at VoTE (even though you don't know that's the case). Since you've already stated that story is subject to change how do you know Kishi won't eventually end up making the other statue Madara?

Example: As early as the first couple of chapters, there was cover-art depicting Naruto, Sasuke and Sakura being associated with toads, snakes and slugs respectively. Was this because Kishi had already planned for Jiraiya, Oro and Tsunade to become their sensei that early in the story? Or did he come up with the concept of the Sannin based on those early depictions? Either way, it eventually became a canon part of the story.

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I don't see how a coherent story could be written by planning from scratch 3 to 5 weeks in advance. Changes and additions can be made during the course of an arc, but the major plot points are laid out well before the material is published.

Im sure Naruto right now is REALLY coherent.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

4.) The clan won't have existed before Konoha. They got there AFTER KONOHA WAS CREATED.
5.) Shanrigan spawning from Byakugan means Madara came AFTER the creation of Konoha. Not before. Thats not Madara at VoTE. Else the entire manga timeline is off-whack. Its just that simple.

Konoha has around 100 Years of existence, those clans, Uchiha and Hyuga existed before Konoha, they just joined the new village bandwagon…think about it, if Sharigan would had come from Byakugan certainly, Kakashi would had not been saying that the origin of the Sharigan is the Byakugan as an speculation, given the small time frame 100 Years constitute for History.

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

But that's all beside the point anyway. You're saying speculation that Madara is one of the statues can't be valid because Kishi hadn't come up with the character before the battle at VoTE (even though you don't know that's the case). Since you've already stated that story is subject to change how do you know Kishi won't eventually end up making the other statue Madara?

Perhaps you should read a little bit more. I gave timeline proof why it isn't Madara.

Do YOU think its Madara or not?

Originally Posted by Rurik

Konoha has around 100 Years of existence, those clans, Uchiha and Hyuga existed before Konoha, they just joined the new village bandwagon…think about it, if Sharigan would had come from Byakugan certainly, Kakashi would had not been saying that the origin of the Sharigan come from the Byakugan as an speculation, given the small time frame 100 Years constitute for History.

The clans did not exist BEFORE Konoha. There wasn't a mass clan migration to Konoha. Some people settled there and started having teh sex and made babies and eventually clans. Konoha is over 100 years you know.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

The clans did not exist BEFORE Konoha. There wasn't a mass clan migration to Konoha. Some people settled there and started having teh sex and made babies and eventually clans. Konoha is over 100 years you know.

Wao, take it easy cowboy!

Konoha is not more than 100 Years old, Tsuande is the Grand daughter of the person that created Konoha she is 50 Year olds, lets say that Shodaime was 70 Years old when Tsuande was Born, that means that 120 Years has passed since Shodaime was born, if you think that Shodaime created Konoha at 10 Years old, then be my guess.

If those clan have less than 100 Years, why they speak about their history in form of speculation? 100 Years is not a long time to do that, maybe those clans were small by that time, but certainly Kishi hint us that those Bloodline existed before Konoha, reason why Kakashi spoke about the origin of the Sharigan as an speculation, if Sharigan would had appeared after Konoha Creation (and also Byakugan) then there would had been documented information about it.

What I do agree that is possible that the person the statue represent is not Madara, heck Sasuke seemed to know about the History of those statue yet he seemed not to know about Madara.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

The clans did not exist BEFORE Konoha. There wasn't a mass clan migration to Konoha. Some people settled there and started having teh sex and made babies and eventually clans. Konoha is over 100 years you know.

C'mon think about it. An entire clan of people cannot develop in 100 years much less several clans of people or an entirely new clan branch off from an existing clan. That's a little more than the lifespan of a human being. Clans are built on several generations of family history.

[MobiuS]

Erm. The first birth wasn't on the first day of Konoha's creation. People moved there, and started having kids. Konoha isnt as populated as you think anyways. Some clans are under 10 people. Im yet to see a clan with over 35 members.

Do the math.

[EvolutionXI]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

The clans did not exist BEFORE Konoha. There wasn't a mass clan migration to Konoha. Some people settled there and started having teh sex and made babies and eventually clans. Konoha is over 100 years you know.

With Shodai being Tsunade's grandfather, Konoha must be within 150 years old. BLs like the Byakugan must have existed prior to Konoha's formation, otherwise Shodai's generation (or maybe one higher if anything) will have been the first to have it...and even then it would still be a somewhat rare mutation. That'd make the generation of Neiji's granddad to be the generation of the "Byakugan Boom", which definitely wouldn't make sense with all the talk of history (and it would also mean the Sharingan mutation occurred very quickly after the Byakugan one), since that would only make 2 generations prior to the current Naruto, Sasuke, Neiji, etc.

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by Rurik

If those clan have less than 100 Years, why they speak about their history in form of speculation? 100 Years is not a long time to do that, maybe those clans were small by that time, but certainly Kishi hint us that those Bloodline existed before Konoha, reason why Kakashi spoke about the origin of the Sharigan as an speculation, if Sharigan would had appeared after Konoha Creation (and also Byakugan) then there would had been documented information about it.

Documents like the secret clan scrolls buried under the statue? Hmmm ...

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

Erm. The first birth wasn't on the first day of Konoha's creation. People moved there, and started having kids. Konoha isnt as populated as you think anyways. Some clans are under 10 people. Im yet to see a clan with over 35 members.


Do the math.

And Based on what are you saying this? Ohh yeah, because you have not been shown more people, only the important Characters, give me a break, is like saying that the Village of Rain has like 10 Shinobies because that’s the amount Kishimoto has shown us.

Originally Posted by MobiuS

Documents like the secret clan scrolls buried under the statue? Hmmm ...

Are you even thinking what you are posting???? So basically 2 Bloodlines were born in Konoha and Konoha did not even know about it? yeah, 2 clans formed themselves wile Konoha existed and Konoha cant say how did that Happen? Of course, is like Saying that ANBU was formed, and Konoha had no Idea how that happened.

Those document represent secrets of the clans that existed way before they integrated themselves with Konoha, reason why they have it in secret place so outsiders don’t have access to them, you still are not grasping the concept of History here.

BTW, lets see what Databook has to say:

Prosperity
They took charge of the public order of the village as Konoha's guardian deity---

From the dawning of Konoha they took charge of the village's public order, always protecting their proud clan. That was the 'Uchiha Clan'. This section of 'The five great shinobi countries' was born, the Fire Country. Owing to it's role as a military power, it possesses many elite shinobi corps as the strongest hidden village - the hidden village of Konoha. Furthermore, their ability which possessed the foremost power in Konoha, saying that they brought present Konoha's prosperity would not be an overstatement.

IF you know how to read, you know it implies they existed before Konoha.

[MobiuS]

Originally Posted by Rurik

And Based on what are you saying this? Ohh yeah, because you have not been shown more people, only the important Characters, give me a break, is like saying that the Village of Rain has like 10 Shinobies because that’s the amount Kishimoto has shown us.

Uchiha slaughter. Largest clan in Konoha. Total body count: less than 35.

Originally Posted by Rurik

Are you even thinking what you are posting???? So basically 2 Bloodlines were born in Konoha and Konoha did not even know about it? yeah, 2 clans formed themselves wile Konoha existed and Konoha cant say how did that Happen? Of course, is like Saying that ANBU was formed, and Konoha had no Idea how that happened.

You do realize that clans keep their stuff secret not only to protect themselves but to protect the village? Haku's mom had a bloodline and married his dad and the dad had no idea. Thats about as close as it gets. You're talking neighbours, and Im talking couples. And btw clans dont interact as much. They live in their own little neighbourhoods ... like little China Towns and little Italy and stuff. You know that.

Its like saying "how can there be a secret list of jutsus?" Everyone should know everything about everyone else right? So why dont they know about these jutsus?

Neji developed techniques and his CLAN HEAD had no idea. Itachi got MS and noone in the Uchiha clan realized it. And these are people he eats and sleeps with.

Originally Posted by Rurik

Those document represent secrets of the clans that existed way before they integrated themselves with Konoha, reason why they have it in secret place so outsiders don’t have access to them, you still are not grasping the concept of History here.

BTW, lets see what Databook has to say:



IF you know how to read, you know it implies they existed before Konoha.

IF you know how to read, you know it STATES that they were the guards of the official village which obviously did not happen overnight. Fastforward 100+ years to the CHunnin Exam. Everyone was helping rebuild Konoha and it still was taking ages even with logically more people. You want me to believe the Uchihas started guarding before a village was constructed? What were they guarding? Trees? o_o

Get real. DOnt use what you assume it means as proof. It gives you hard fact that they were the village guards. They had nothing to guard right at the creation nor had everyone determined they were best suited for guarding. It makes no sense that 3 minutes after Konoha was created, 2 huge clans moved in and decided to guard the place. No construction, no trees, nothing.