Higurashi - Game Discussion (spoilers lurk here)

[TW25]

There appears to be an issue with saving in the upper left slot in Higurashi Hou. I didn't think I was experiencing the problem until I started up the game and found my save data was completely gone...

07th Expansion says they're looking into it so hopefully there should be a fix soon.

[fuff]

this isnt really related to the game but i could find out where to put it so...
anybody know what this is:
http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/det...%24pagecnt%3D1

it says 589mins which is 9hrs or so...so its not the full series? also i wonder how the cover will look...

[sona-nyl]

If each episode is 24 minutes then all 26 episodes of the first season should be 624 minutes. Maybe they're not counting the op and end?

[st_nick5]

Originally Posted by fuff

this isnt really related to the game but i could find out where to put it so...
anybody know what this is:
http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/det...%24pagecnt%3D1

it says 589mins which is 9hrs or so...so its not the full series? also i wonder how the cover will look...

http://www.oyashirosama.com/web/top/index.htm
I'd imagine it's the full series.

[TW25]

The patch for fixing the save issue is now up: http://07th-expansion.net/huguai.htm

As with most NScripter-like patches your save data will become unusable once you update to the new Version (1.1).

[chaos_alfa]

Seems MangaGamer isn't going use the sprite of naked Satoko for the Steam version of Higurashi.

Originally Posted by MangaGamer

Will Satoko still be naked in the new sprites for Steam, or will she be covered by a towel?
I think this is a question best answered visually.
That being said, there are some issues with having blatant nudity on Steam. For one thing, we've seen Steam express some harsher scrutiny on games that offer it, so we'd rather avoid needless trouble there while we're still establishing ourselves on Steam as a trusted publisher.
Furthermore, with Higurashi being able to reach a much, much wider audience through Steam, the potential issues and backlash that could arise from having a naked child displayed in-game increase 1,000 fold, so we don't feel that including that would promote our efforts to expand Visual Novels beyond the current core audience.
Those who absolutely wish to see her naked, either to enjoy the original content as created or for whatever other reason you may have, are welcome to purchase the current version with the original sprites, which will still receive the updated translation.

NSFW

Warning: Not safe to view at work or school!

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Source: http://ask.fm/MangaGamerStaff/answer/117160850674

[Levani]

It seems there is a backslash about this on tumblr. They are accusing MangaGamer for oversexualizing Satoko. And asking people to not buy the perverted Higurashi.

May I remind the fans that the original novel had a full time naked Satoko sprite?

And why is this such an issue in a story of murder, abuse, rape (Takano as child?)? It is already dealing with controversial themes. And for the love of god, who cares if there is a naked Satoko sprite or not. I definitely don't care either way. This is a fiction, meant for adults. In no way can "a naked Satoko sprite" be harmful to anyone. We are adults, reading an R rated novel, we know what we are getting into. Furthermore, it seems that they did censor it in the English version, so I don't understand the problem.

Over-sexualization of women is a Japanese thing. Anyone who follows JPN media should be aware of that. Ryukishi has given 6 year old Ange boobs and also had characters like Seven Sisters of Purgatory and the Chiesters, with their sexualized costumes.

http://puu.sh/bmpRW/628f93dc30.jpg
I'll just put this here, since this kind of stuff is not new to the Higurashi franchise.

[Captain Bluebeard]

I'm not sure I see your point here...

I mean, sure, Japanese media may sexualize women all the time, and Ryukishi did include a naked Satoko -I wont even go into the Rika butt wiping- but why does this make it okay?

Yeah, we all know Ryukishi does that a lot, but I really wish he wouldn't... Most of the time it's uncalled for and a little bit awkward, especially in Higurashi (actually I think he does kinda give the impression that he is satirizing this sort of thing in Higurashi, but then again by his general attitude he seems to be enjoying it).

Anyway, I think the issue here is not the sexualization of women in general (not that it's okay, but this isn't the problem right now), but the sexualization of minors, such as Satoko, and to be honest, their reply that 'whoever absolutely wishes to see her naked' is a little creepy. And admittedly, it's not exactly healthy to be aroused by a little girl who has been abused, for obvious reasons, and you can't say this sprite is not drawn in a certain sexualized way (Ryukishi's art is a different matter, because though it may sexualize females, well, I just can't see how anyone could be aroused by it for various reasons, tumor hands being one of them).

[Levani]

I'm not sure I see your point here...

I mean, sure, Japanese media may sexualize women all the time, and Ryukishi did include a naked Satoko -I wont even go into the Rika butt wiping- but why does this make it okay?

Who exactly said that it was okay? I just wanna say that this is part of JPN media and also there probably are cultural differences involved here. They don't look at sexual matters as seriously as the west does. And kudos to them for that.

There is a line between fiction and reality. Who cares if there is a naked Satoko sprite? She being murdered by Shion with a knife stab numerous times is way more disturbing to me than this "sexualized" sprite. It's awkward, it's weird and I would prefer it to not be there. But it is. Let's deal with that and get over it.

I think whoever is mad with Satoko's naked sprite should approach Ryukishi himself. Not MangaGamer who are trying to recreate the sprite to a normal art as much as they can while staying in touch with the source.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Levani

Who exactly said that it was okay? I just wanna say that this is part of JPN media and also there probably are cultural differences involved here. They don't look at sexual matters as seriously as the west does. And kudos to them for that.

There is a line between fiction and reality. Who cares if there is a naked Satoko sprite? She being murdered by Shion with a knife stab numerous times is way more disturbing to me than this "sexualized" sprite. It's awkward, it's weird and I would prefer it to not be there. But it is. Let's deal with that and get over it.

I think whoever is mad with Satoko's naked sprite should approach Ryukishi himself. Not MangaGamer who are trying to recreate the sprite to a normal art as much as they can while staying in touch with the source.

I don't think Satoko being naked in the original version is a big deal. In the scene the sprite is being used the intention doesn't seem to be to arouse the player, but rather to show Satoko's despair and vulnerability. I'm of the opinion that the western culture should try to learn more that nakedness doesn't always have to be seen in a sexual way and can also be used in non-harmful ways.

I'm more troubled by the more sexual art style of the new sprites for the Steam version of Higurashi. I don't feel as if it fits the tone of the story and it seems unnecessary.



For example if you compare the original sprite of Mion with the new one you can see that the new one has a much bigger focus on her beasts. To me it feels jarring because of the strange physics being used to put focus on them. For example her breasts seems to ignore gravity to be able to stand up and her shirt seems to have been put/crawled under her breasts, I didn't get the impression Mion was the type of girl who would constantly try to show off her breasts.

[Mr. Dent]

I honestly have no problems with the new sprites at all- Well, no, actually, the Satoko sprite is uncomfortable, but nothing to be angry about, considering that she was originally nude. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt until the actual game comes out, because so far we've only seen out-of-context idle sprites, and that's no way at all to judge whether or not they're suitable for the game.

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

...I didn't get the impression Mion was the type of girl who would constantly try to show off her breasts.

Well, the first thing she talks about when Keiichi meets her in Onikakushi is the size of their assets, and considering that the new art is NOWHERE near as sexualized as the anime, or even some of the manga, I don't find it as troubling as others.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dent

I

Well, the first thing she talks about when Keiichi meets her in Onikakushi is the size of their assets,

Seems I forgot that part.

]and considering that the new art is NOWHERE near as sexualized as the anime, or even some of the manga, I don't find it as troubling as others.

I don't remember the anime series being that sexualized, wasn't it only the swimming pool OVA which was?. I can't comment on the rest, because I haven't seen or read it yet.

[Levani]

Seems I forgot that part.

If I remember correctly, this happens inside the Visual Novel as well.

[Joly]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

I don't remember the anime series being that sexualized, wasn't it only the swimming pool OVA which was?.

Episodes from Kira, as well as a lot of the anime promotional art. Also, a lot of the promotional art for Alchemist's adaption was also rather sexualized.

[Mr. Dent]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

I don't remember the anime series being that sexualized, wasn't it only the swimming pool OVA which was?.

Oh, the anime was pretty bad, but mostly only in promotional art and the like. There were still iffy things in the anime, like Shion pissing herself, and Shion and Mion's outfits leaving very little to the imagination, but other than that, it was the artwork and OVAs that were shamelessly smutty. (Kira in particular was almost entirely fanservice.)

Spoiler for Many NSFW-ish Images:

While I can't find any good pictures, I seem to remember the Alchemist version having swimsuit posters or something? I dunno, I'm sure there's more sexualized merchandise, considering what they did with Umineko.

The manga's probably the most tame of all the adaptations, and, honestly, it's still got stuff like:

Spoiler for I think this counts as NSFW too:

Simply put, whether it's tasteless or not, you can't deny that Higurashi's always been sold with sex. When compared to the anime, the manga, and countless figures, the new sprites seem relatively tame. To basically put it bluntly, Higurashi's always been bundled with sex, even in the early doujin days, (I mean come on, you're going to pretend that the Punishment Games weren't meant to be provocative?) and we've only seen roughs of these new sprites so far, and out of context. I wouldn't judge them until I've actually played the game with them, who knows if they'd be that bad. And if it's just Mion, I wouldn't mind, since she's always been portrayed as "The Sexy One."

Spoiler for NSFW-ish:

And, from the single picture of the game that's actually been released, I wouldn't say the new art doesn't fit. In fact, it looks quite natural with the background.

Spoiler for Very Large, but SFW, Screencap:

[Levani]

There's a good reason Alchemist toned down the nudity for their remakes.

Incorrect. The only reason it got censored is because console games are rated. Ryukishi's PC games aren't. And Satoko's sprite isn't the only thing censored in the PS2 port. A lot of story elements were also removed. I have played the game and I've compared it to PC version and have confirmed it. Primary example of this were Watanagashi/Meakashi and Satoko's abuse in Minagoroshi. All because of the ratings for a console game. Nothing more than that.

In the end, if it bothers someone that much they can simply not play this version. I for one, am looking forward to this and couldn't care less about Satoko's naked sprite.

Are we seriously going to complain about a drawing inside a brutal VN? Sex should be the least disturbing part in Higurashi When they Cry.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

I have to disagree with you about the original version. In case you didn't notice, the towel sprite from the previous scene is already blatantly over-sexualized. It shows her merely holding the towel in front of herself even after the VN itself EXPLICITLY states that it should be wrapped around her. What could possibly be the justification for that? No offense, but it seems like most of the people who make this argument overlook that detail.

If the text stated the towel was totally warped around her, I agree that it was unnecessary for the sprite to contradict that. It would have been more accurate if Ryukishi drew the sprite more like the PS2 equivalent.

Don't get me wrong. I know that not all nudity is sexual, but this isn't a matter of simple nudity. Ryukishi himself is just as guilty of inappropriate sexualization as Mangagamer

That is true. I'm less annoyed with Ryukishi sexualization compared to MangaGamer's because the bad drawings decreases the erotic factor making the sexualization be less noticeable and in your face. With for example MangaGamer's new sprite of Mion it seems like much more focus is drawn to it.

This is my first ever post, by the way. I'm not trying to be rude, and I hope I didn't do anything wrong.

No, you weren't rude. You gave good arguments for you opinions and communcicated them in a reasonable way. Welcome to the forum

[Levani]

Also, now I'm curious. What did they cut from Satoko's abuse? Or the Mion/Shion chapters?

In Watanagashi they cut down the scene when Shion (Mion) is explaining to Rena and Keichi about her family. About cannibalism and canned human food. All of these were removed from the PS2 version.

In Minagoroshi, the scenes when the kids were talking to the child's right center were also cut down and shortened. Actual Satoko's abuse was still kept like the original. They just cut down the scenes when they talked to the people from the center.

There might have been more but nothing comes to my mind at the moment.

That's fair. I've read about the censorship of the blood. However, that doesn't change the fact that a lot of people have found the sprite controversial. There can always be more than one reason for censoring something, but I could be speculating.

The main reason was the game ratings. If there was another reason we can only speculate. But this is Japan. I doubt they would have been too strongly against it considering they always used sex for advertising both Higurashi and Umineko. That includes Satoko and Rika.

Besides, it's not just sex that bothers a lot of people, but the sexualization of a child, which is an entirely different issue. You can't really blame people for being uncomfortable with that.

Once again, cultural differences. Japan doesn't care that much. In fact, there was a charity few weeks ago. Pornstars allowed people to touch their breasts as long as they would be paying. Imagine if something like this happened in America?

We, from the west, should just close our eyes at this. It's weird, it's awkward and disturbing but we are adults and we know what we are getting into.

comments made by actual Mangagamer staff members seem to implicitly condone the sexualization of animated children, and they seem to care little about the opinions of their potential consumers.

Comments, in plural? Have they said more that I am unaware of?



And the original sprite was like this. The towel isn't wrapped around her. It's the same as MangaGamer's pose.

[Levani]

Well, if you want to complain about a drawing be my guest. I have better things to do. I'm done talking about this.

[Vokoca]

Originally Posted by FXtreme

The sprite was unusually explicit (even compared to anime normally more explicit than Higurashi) and came without warning, so it surprised a lot of people. Believe it or not, issues with nudity are sometimes concerning in Japan.

I'm sorry for jumping into this with a fresh account, but I'm really curious; do you happen to have any sources to those supposed issues with Higurashi's 'nudity', or specifically the backlash concerning the Satoko sprite? The vast majority of visual novels are eroge - to the point where those two should be more or less synonymous in Japan. VNs that don't have any sexual content in them are the exceptions here, even more so on PC, where the console game rating systems don't apply. To top that all off, 07th Expansion is just a circle - at the very least, they were back when Higurashi was being released - and considering how these work, I wouldn't be afraid to guess they released their stuff on ComiKet. Yes, the place where most of the goods offered are porn, or something very close to that. With all this in consideration, I honestly can't see how something like a mildly suggestive sprite might be a problem. Are you sure this isn't just an issue over in the west?