[MANGA] what went wrong in bleach?

[sennbonzakura]

i dont recall anything wrong in the manga or anime... except... i think if i had to choose, Orihime is what went wrong. xD

[Lord of Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Yeah, mostly speculation.



I think Aizen's situation is a little different...he's never thought himself completely invincible. He's acknowledged Yamamoto as being more than a match for him powerwise and he also believed that Gin was capable of killing him. It's just that he was prepared for all that and planned for it. Ichigo's power-up being this much greater than his own evolution is something he never prepared for or even thought possible.

But yeah, at this point Aizen not (at least for the moment) being crazy prepared is a welcome sight.

I kind of disagree with you here. Aizen did think that he was invincible and that is why he unraveled when he found out he wasn't. As for Yamamoto, and I know this is speculation but based on what I know of Aizen, he was just dicking around when he said Yama was the strongest. The reason I say this is...Aizen suffered from grandiose behavior. A simple win, wasn't good enough for him. He likes to break his enemies down both mentally and physically. Aizen likes to make his enemies think that they can actually win, then say "PSYCH!!!" Then crush them totally. WW was tailored made, to Yama's fighting style. Every move Yama made, he had counter. That means Aizen peeped his whole card, a long time ago. If he knew how he fights, he knew how to beat him. Aizen also wanted to prove a point. No matter how strong you think you are, you can't win. If a person hasn't fought with everything, then they will always think that they have a chance to win. If you let a person go all out, and then crush them. You will break them mentally. Physical wounds, heal easily. When you break a person's mind, they never recover and they will lose all hopes of every winning because they tried their best and it wasn't good enough.

Everyone that Aizen fucked up, he let them think they had him, when he had them. He did this to Shinji who thought he was ahead of Aizen and had no idea, he was already Aizen's bitch. He did this to Hitsu more than once....with Yama it was no different. He said I know I can't beat you, and then he beat Yama. Sure he didn't do it personally but it still counted as Aizen's win. He wanted them to see him take Yama out, so the others would witness how bad ass he was.. Sure I believe he could have just owned Yama, but that's too easy and not Aizen's style at all

As for the Espada and the rest of the Arrancar there were some that followed him by choice, and those who didn't want to. Had no choice but to follow him, because Aizen put the muscle on them. Simple as that. Nel like Starrk had the loneliness theme.. That is why Noi said "Not everyone follows Aizen"...because Nel did so out of loneliness and Noi was obviously made to do so, because he didn't care for Aizen either.

What I could never understand is, why fans were so surprised that Aizen didn't care about them. Isshin and Urahara, said that he was "testing" them in the chapter that Isshin defeated the GF. Aizen hadn't seen them fight and needed to see if they were strong enough to help him when he got to the Spirit King's realm. He also needed them to fight Ichigo so he could level up and provide a distraction. Also he stated that "divide and conquer" was his strategy and that SS heavily relied on the Gotei 13...Which means he needed to take out a few captains, especially Yamaji... So he tried to kill two birds with one stone. Have his Arrancar fight the Captains in HM and FKT. If they win, it's to his benefit, and if they lose, he will know that they're worthless. "Betrayal" implies that they were nakama, comrades, friends...whatever. They were "tools" to be used. When he has no more use for his tools. He discards them, in the same manner he got rid of Hinamori. Although in her case, he was being kind, in his mind. She can't live without him so he'd be nice and kill her. That dude is twisted and I love him. I used to hate Aizen's guts and I thought he was all hype and trickery but like Aizen said..."I shall slowly teach you who the God is that you will put your faith in. Believing in me comes after that"

He makes believers...and I must say that I am NOW a devout follower and member in the "Church of Aizen"....because he's one bad mofo. One of the greatest manga villains ever.

[~Yami~]

one thing that wrong for me is the newest arc!
they should finish the manga with Aizen as the worst and final villain....

no fullbring arc anymore!!
and also, Orihime's role is too small in Karakura's battle

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

What I could never understand is, why fans were so surprised that Aizen didn't care about them. Isshin and Urahara, said that he was "testing" them in the chapter that Isshin defeated the GF. Aizen hadn't seen them fight and needed to see if they were strong enough to help him when he got to the Spirit King's realm. He also needed them to fight Ichigo so he could level up and provide a distraction. Also he stated that "divide and conquer" was his strategy and that SS heavily relied on the Gotei 13...Which means he needed to take out a few captains, especially Yamaji... So he tried to kill two birds with one stone. Have his Arrancar fight the Captains in HM and FKT. If they win, it's to his benefit, and if they lose, he will know that they're worthless. "Betrayal" implies that they were nakama, comrades, friends...whatever. They were "tools" to be used. When he has no more use for his tools. He discards them, in the same manner he got rid of Hinamori. Although in her case, he was being kind, in his mind. She can't live without him so he'd be nice and kill her. That dude is twisted and I love him. I used to hate Aizen's guts and I thought he was all hype and trickery but like Aizen said..."I shall slowly teach you who the God is that you will put your faith in. Believing in me comes after that"

If you actually want to know, it's because considering how much they were hyped up, we were hoping they would actually make more difference to the overall plot.

[Lord of Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by Haak

If you actually want to know, it's because considering how much they were hyped up, we were hoping they would actually make more difference to the overall plot.

Fans hyped them up, not Kubo...

Kubo made it clear that Aizen was just testing them. Kubo made it clear that Aizen was the real threat, but Arrancar fanboys and girls kept insisting that he wasn't and they were. They weren't hyped up by Kubo. If you are referring to Hitsu's speech. It had already been established, that SS really didn't know that much about Hollows and characters can be mistaken. You can't take everything they say at face value, because they're not always right when it comes to their suppositions. Fanboys and girls glorified the Arrancar, not Kubo. They did make a difference, it just wasn't the way you would have liked. They were used to develop, Aizen, his plan, Hollows, Hybrids, the Shinigami, and Ichigo because he was a hybrid Shinigami, and it's his world. They had a purpose and they served it well. They just didn't do what the fans wanted them to do because they were fodder. That was clear from the begining, well at least it was to me

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

one thing that wrong for me is the newest arc!
they should finish the manga with Aizen as the worst and final villain....

no fullbring arc anymore!!
and also, Orihime's role is too small in Karakura's battle

Why does everyone hate the fullbring arc? It's a great arc. Also, Aizen isn't dead, and is immortal. More than likely he will be back. Just because he's out of the picture, doesn't mean he can't come back. Otherwise, he would be dead right now, he isn't dead and has immortality. He's gone but he isn't forgotten. He just needed to be away so Kubo could develop his fullbringers.

Orihime's role has been huge!!! . Although her primary role is "healer" she has to be present so she can heal Ichigo and.. ... Tsukisihima . She has had a lot of panel time, and she's not really a fighter anyway so aside from healing and being under Tsukishima's mind control, there isn't really much she can do. Except to be saved by Ichigo, which is role that a lot of characters can fill. Um...exactly what do you want her to do?

I think Rukia needs a bigger role, but as of right now, ...I am actually glad she's not here. (I am an IchiRuki shipper) this way, only Orihime and Sir Useless One are under Deabo's mind control...I also think that Tsukishima is related to Aizen. He looks to similar to Aizen, and his abilities are similar. New Characters with similar appearances and abilities are usually connected to pre-existing characters with similar appearances and abilitie. Some would say that it's a case of only six faces or say it's a "lack of creativity" or "recycled abilities" but most of the time, you find out that's it's for a reason and there is actually a method to Kubo's madness.

As for the reason this thread was created. I don't see where Bleach went wrong, I think it's good as it is now, but for some reason it's not appreciated

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

I think Rukia needs a bigger role, but as of right now, ...I am actually glad she's not here. (I am an IchiRuki shipper)

Well you never know how this type of situation could turn out. It could bring certain characters closer than they were before the conflict. Conflict tends to do that

I'm not predicting anything, because as far as I can tell KT is going in pretty random directions, leaving many possibilities open. I tend to like it when not every single chapter ends with "OMFG WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT?!" Bleach needs some chillax chapters more often, imo.

[~Yami~]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

Fans hyped them up, not Kubo...

Why does everyone hate the fullbring arc? It's a great arc. Also, Aizen isn't dead, and is immortal. More than likely he will be back. Just because he's out of the picture, doesn't mean he can't come back. Otherwise, he would be dead right now, he isn't dead and has immortality. He's gone but he isn't forgotten. He just needed to be away so Kubo could develop his fullbringers.

Orihime's role has been huge!!! . Although her primary role is "healer" she has to be present so she can heal Ichigo and.. ... Tsukisihima . She has had a lot of panel time, and she's not really a fighter anyway so aside from healing and being under Tsukishima's mind control, there isn't really much she can do. Except to be saved by Ichigo, which is role that a lot of characters can fill. Um...exactly what do you want her to do?

I think Rukia needs a bigger role, but as of right now, ...I am actually glad she's not here. (I am an IchiRuki shipper) this way, only Orihime and Sir Useless One are under Deabo's mind control...I also think that Tsukishima is related to Aizen. He looks to similar to Aizen, and his abilities are similar. New Characters with similar appearances and abilities are usually connected to pre-existing characters with similar appearances and abilitie. Some would say that it's a case of only six faces or say it's a "lack of creativity" or "recycled abilities" but most of the time, you find out that's it's for a reason and there is actually a method to Kubo's madness.

As for the reason this thread was created. I don't see where Bleach went wrong, I think it's good as it is now, but for some reason it's not appreciated

hohoho... then... I'm IchiXOrihime supporter

yep! I hate that arc... it's going too slowly and don't excite me at all.... I honestly thought that Aizen is the final villain
yes! Aizen isn't dead yet... but you don't need to give some new power to Ichigo again... Final Getsuga is enough... now fullbring?? He got too many powers up (I know this is shounen.. but it's still too much)

Orihime got smaller part in previous arc... I actually really have high hope when Orihime is kidnapped but the fact that Aizen abandoned her made her's role become more smaller
Rukia is also abandoned a lot.... xD

the only thing I like in fullbring arc, I don't see shinigami.... I honestly prefer Karakura town to Shinigami's world

well, only my opinion.... don't mind it too much (but Kubo~sensei really need to make something big to raise the popularity again)

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

Fans hyped them up, not Kubo...

Kubo made it clear that Aizen was just testing them. Kubo made it clear that Aizen was the real threat, but Arrancar fanboys and girls kept insisting that he wasn't and they were. They weren't hyped up by Kubo. If you are referring to Hitsu's speech. It had already been established, that SS really didn't know that much about Hollows and characters can be mistaken. You can't take everything they say at face value, because they're not always right when it comes to their suppositions. Fanboys and girls glorified the Arrancar, not Kubo. They did make a difference, it just wasn't the way you would have liked. They were used to develop, Aizen, his plan, Hollows, Hybrids, the Shinigami, and Ichigo because he was a hybrid Shinigami, and it's his world. They had a purpose and they served it well. They just didn't do what the fans wanted them to do because they were fodder. That was clear from the begining, well at least it was to me.

Originally Posted by Haak

Generally when a character gives an explanation of something, we can take it as exposition unless it's made abolsutely clear that they're merely guessing and when they're wrong, the characters actually acknowledge the difference so there's no ambiguity for the reader. Kubo has done nothing like that, so either he's really just making it up or he's lacking in basic writing skills.

I'm sorry but there was never any exposition given to suggest Hitsu's intel could be that wrong, before or after. The arrancers were hyped up constantly throughout the entire arc, first when Hitsu gave the low down (I want you to read Chapter 197 again, and then tell me what you think), then when Ulquiorra first came, and then again when Grimmjow first came. Kubo was constantly making them out to be a real threat (Chapter 213 Page 19, Chapter 214 Page 16, Chapter 316 Page 16). He hyped it up even more through the ambiguity of who the Vasto Lordes were and their rankings. If the arrancars were never made out to be a threat then why was Ulquiorra revealing his 4th ranking a shocking plot twist? Why is the fact that there were three Espadas stronger than him such a big deal?

In any case part of the reason we also thought they would more affect on the plot is that Kubo had already given hundreds of chapters to them and their battles. If those batles were never going to affect the plot in any significant way, why make them?

But feel free to contradict me. How about giving me some evidence when it was made clear that the arrancars might not actually be a threat? Or some evidence that Aizen was just testing them and wasn't confident that they could beat Soul Society?

[secretzfan]

DBZ + YYH= Bleach it is all the same shit just with different stories so what went wrong uhhh...plotholes

[Aqua Knight]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

hohoho... then... I'm IchiXOrihime supporter



Orihime got smaller part in previous arc... I actually really have high hope when Orihime is kidnapped but the fact that Aizen abandoned her made her's role become more smaller
Rukia is also abandoned a lot.... xD

Without reading into everything else you wrote and omitting the word "part", I thought you were referring to her breast size

[toriko]

Originally Posted by secretzfan

DBZ + YYH= Bleach it is all the same shit just with different stories so what went wrong uhhh...plotholes

Lol togashi and toriyama are great mangakas of this generation.they both shit on tite kubo and kubo should take it as a honour when they shit on him..people still remembering yu yu hakusho and dragon ball even after a decade they have ended proves they were great manga while nobody will remember when bleach ends...

Anyway what went wrong with bleach was ignoring the main characters(chad,uryu and orihime) and focussing more on shitty bishounen captain characters..

[Guernsey]

What went wrong in Bleach is that it had too many characters, the Arrancar arc dragged on too long and Aizen.

[toriko]

1 way too many characters
2 lame and repetative action(everybody gets cut only on shoulder)
3 boring and repetative daialouge i.e-omg what huge reiatsu,
4 all thing being ichigocentric,idiotic powerups
5 ichigo's stupid growth(seriously,how can a shitty teen defeat people who have been training for centuries)
6 the manga has no plot
7 forgetting the core cast chad,uryu and orihime
8 having a bad storyteller like tite kubo
9 ripping off yu yu hakusho

shit there thousand reasons,but who cares, nobody gives a damn about this senseless manga now.its already fallen in sales and rankings.it is popular only in u s now,everywhre else the pirates rules

[toriko]

in first 6 months of 2011 one piece sold 23.3 million manga copies,while bleach sold a mere 1 million managa copies.. one piece is miles ahead of bleach its main characters are the force that drive the plot,they have a reson to be in the plot,they have goals and ambtion they wanna fullfill,oda doesnt change the plot according to popularity of characters,hitsugay anyone..now the same things cant be said about bleach,ichigo ha no reason to be in the plot forget about chad uryu and hime,ichigo has no goal,captains are the one who deafeat powerful opponents while chad,uryu and hime pick up the trash after them..soul society arc was best coz it focussed on goups attempt to infiltrate the ss and all the focus was on the core group,after ss arc enter shitty hitsugay and other shitty captains,popularity polls,kubo lost mind started drawing string of meaningless fights..kubo wasted a really good oppurtunity,bleach could have been on par with one piece..its like the guy is stupid..

[rei_ayanami17]

^ ee?!?

you seem a big fan of One piece, I'm also a big fan of One piece but sadly I can't manage to keep up with Sir Oda's wide imagination..........darn it! i tend to forget some characters that is very important to the past of the main cast like Brook with Laboon because of its wide universe........"i was like who the hell is that Laboon at first?".......... I think that is the ONLY thing I can complain about One piece especially that they now in New world saga......more characters will pop up.

but in bleach, because of its limited universe, readers tend to see EACH AND EVERY imperfection. How shame.

[Om Nerabdator]

Easy he centred the whole story with that stupid aizen as the bad guy now that his gone everything is falling apart...well thats kinda wrong aizen should of been defeated a while ago but the fella made aizen too damn strong, hell he couldnt even kill him they had to seal him

[rei_ayanami17]

^ nah, they can't and didn't seal Aizen, they just imprison him for this particular years (....i can't remember the exact years)......... Aizen-sama will surely come back!

[kitten320]

A lot of things went wrong and sales ratings are major proof to that. Bleach slowly but surely is falling down.

What went wrong? Almost everything starting with the fact that Ichigo became the centre of the Universe. I understand that he is the main character but it doesn't mean that he has to be always the hero and everyone else must suck.

Kubo should advice with filler scrip writers because current filler is 10 times better than manga and a lot of people agree with that. Before you would always see "Fuck fillers, go manga!" and now I usually stumble on "I kind of like this filler more than manga...".

Filler creators do everything that Kubo doesn't, they give each character their screen time and action time. Even Unohana is finally doing something while Kubo constantly forgets that she even exists.

[rei_ayanami17]

^ i also see that kind of style to Kashimoto's work. Naruto tends to beat by some characters in terms of popularity poll and got the joke that its because he's not the really main shonen hero of his own series. Aren't that bad that the main characters is beaten up by supporting cast because the manga-ka is working more to those character who is so popular? That seems a work of someone who wants money.....fanservice. And fillers are meant as fanservice.

[Cub-Sama]

What went wrong in Bleach, some retard is still letting Kubo write it just give him the pencil to draw and let someone else write everything, at this point I'm pretty sure LittleKuriboh could do better at writing a story than Kubo.