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View Poll Results: Toradora! - Episode 24 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 93 | 42.86% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 50 | 23.04% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 22 | 10.14% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 17 | 7.83% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 7 | 3.23% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 2 | 0.92% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 5 | 2.30% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 5 | 2.30% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 4 | 1.84% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 12 | 5.53% | |
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll |
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2009-03-18, 22:10 | Link #121 |
Pedestrian
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sweden
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On the issue of marriage
A lot of people seem to be raging about Ryuuji proposing to Taiga, when they're so young and still in school and it's so early in their relationship and so on.
I think there's a reasonable explanation for this. (Note that I don't know about Japanese laws, and this is just a personal impression.) In the novels, there's a very palpable sense of urgency: Taiga's mother is actively chasing after Ryuuji/Taiga to grab her daughter and move far, far away. She drives her Porsche after them on the streets, and they run away, making sure to use narrow alleys where cars can't drive while keeping a lookout for black vehicles, and later they also hop on different trains to shake off pursuers (excessively, perhaps). Taiga's mother also visits Kitamura and asks him where she can find them. Now, Ryuuji is a young man, a few days away from turning 18, and over the course of a year he's grown incredibly attached and fallen in love with Taiga. She's still a minor, and now her mother appears out of nowhere and wants to break them apart, ripping his loved one right out of his life. Inner monologues and various scenes with crying/screaming make it abundantly clear that Ryuuji is very upset about this. His solution is simple: Run away for a few days until he turns 18, then marry Taiga and move in with her. "WHAT?!" go most people watching. Why get married so soon? I believe it's because at age 17, Taiga is still a minor, and under the custody of her mother, who can move her wherever she wants. However, if Ryuuji marries her (I think girls have to be 16 in Japan), he most likely becomes her "guardian" and thus gains the right to live with her, in practice freeing her from the evil mother's grasp. This allows him and Taiga to stay together, and gives Taiga the opportunity to live a life in contact with her very precious friends. Of course it's insane, and rash, and surprising. Ami even comments on this in the book, calling it a childish plan. But remember that Ryuuji grew up with a single mother who did exactly that: she ran away from home and gave birth to her son and lived in exile from her parental home. To him it's not a crazy, impossible occurrence - instead it's exactly what he's living proof of. Taiga, on the other hand, hates her parents and has always felt utterly betrayed by them, so to her it's the only way to be close to the people she really cares about, her friends and Ryuuji. Right, well, I guess this is where someone knowledgeable comes in and tells me I'm wrong about how marriage and custodian laws work in Japan, and then you can declare me mentally unstable. A non-regular human, actually. I meant the usage of capital letters and punctuation, which is pretty rare in instant messaging.
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2009-03-18, 22:26 | Link #123 |
Dangoism
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The problem is that this isn't the book, it's the anime. This sense of urgency is not there in the anime, with the threat of Taiga's mom being downplayed and thus it appears rash for the sake of being rash.
Now, I don't have that much of an issue with the plot taking this turn to be honest, it's more that they jammed in in with so much else. But, that said, "it was better in the original work" doesn't fly here any more than it flies with Clannad or Index or what have you. My opinion is that there's ultimately too much to digest (even if the episode is still really good despite this). Evidently, what they cut out here (the kiss, this stuff with Taiga's mom) really hurts the episode more than it helps it, because it could have helped solve some of my issues with the episode but didn't for whatever reason. |
2009-03-18, 22:34 | Link #124 | |
進む道は武士道のみ
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 36
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You're right about being able to marry at 16, but if you're a minor you need permission from the parent/guardian. On to this episode, hmm...there are times during this series where it's good enough that I forget JC Staff is making it. Then there are times during Toradora! where it feels really average and/or really reminds me that JC Staff is the one making it. The episode was interesting, but it had its problems. There were some parts in this episode that I thought were pretty good though. This is actually true and I've seen the company building. |
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2009-03-18, 22:40 | Link #125 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I can verify it is easily possible to kiss someone without extra help even if one party is 4'10" and the other is 6'0" --- not an issue (especially if you just pick them up).
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2009-03-18, 23:12 | Link #127 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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It's like people like to have like the one face they can blame if they don't like something. With the Haruhi 2 stuff, at first it was Kyoto Animation and everyone was "grrrr Kyoto Animation", and then finally someone convinced them that it wasn't Kyoto Animation, it's Kadokawa, and so then everyone was "grrrr Kadokawa". Business politics aren't so clean-cut. There's not one single bad guy or one single person to whom all decisions must flow, really (even if there is on paper, it doesn't work that way in real life). It's a mess of contracts, and committees, and boardroom meetings, and stupid requirements imposed by people who don't know anything but somehow got into positions of power due to be related to the boss's cousin's friend. I suppose, at the end of the day, if you have to have a single person to blame, you could point to the director, but even then who knows what circumstances there were surrounding the production that were beyond his or her control. Life just isn't so simple. And in other news... Awwww.... |
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2009-03-18, 23:15 | Link #128 | |
Pedestrian
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sweden
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I wonder if this means the author was unaware of the law, or if we're to interpret it as Ryuuji being unaware. Or me being an idiot.
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2009-03-18, 23:16 | Link #129 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Singapore
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Anyway does anyone have a good explanation as to where Yasuko went? She seems to have just disappeared into thin air. It's pretty sweet she trusts Ryuji with the house like that, but that 's not the point. |
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2009-03-18, 23:18 | Link #130 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Best guess is Ryuuji isn't clear on the legal details ... we'll hope grandparents have mellowed and rethought what is more important to them.
Odd how they're adapting/handling Taiga's mom so far....
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2009-03-18, 23:50 | Link #131 | |
進む道は武士道のみ
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 36
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They are the production studio, they are responsible for who works on what, and are thus responsible for the quality of the product. And just like a certain level of quality can be expected from Kyoto Animation, there is a certain level of disaster that can be expected from JC Staff. They've built up their own reputation like KyoAni has. I usually don’t get too concerned over animation. It would be the writers and directors that I have problems with. For the case you mentioned where directors and writers are put in charge from the people above (funders), and it ends up turning out bad. Well, that would just kind of suck. But if it’s not specified in the credits that that’s the case, and only names are there, then I’ll assume they work for JC Staff, or were hired for this job by them. If this were to happen on a consistent basis, then maybe they should make better decisions with who they deal with for an animation production. I realize how crazy the industry can get at times, but that’s not a real excuse when quality anime is being produced elsewhere within the same industry. This isn’t to say that JC Staff doesn’t produce any quality anime; I’m just saying they produce a lot of bad. And then what really angers people, is their trouble with sequels. So since it’s easier this way, I’ll just blame JC Staff and their reputation, instead of looking up each director and writer for each episode that I thought the quality dipped. Edit: Onto Toradora! - My guess would be that Ryuji and Taiga aren't thinking about it or are just unaware of the law. There's the law that minors can't have sex but they do it anyway. Maybe a bad example, but the law doesn't always factor into one's thought process. What I find a little odd is the focus on Ryuji turning 18. Unlike the States where you become an adult at 18 except for a few things, as far as I know turning 18 means nothing in Japan. Turning 20 is when you become an adult. I could understand the 18 bit as it correlates with him graduating High School, but that's not really factoring into his plan at all. This seems really odd to me. Maybe the author's had too much contact with the States, or maybe the rules got changed since I've been away. Last edited by Ryuou; 2009-03-19 at 00:01. |
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2009-03-19, 00:00 | Link #132 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Anyway... it's not that I'm really trying to single you out in particular, it's just that this argument comes up all the time, and it never really makes much sense when you dig deeper into the facts, that's all. Call it a pet peeve, I guess. |
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2009-03-19, 00:15 | Link #133 | ||
進む道は武士道のみ
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 36
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2009-03-19, 00:30 | Link #134 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
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They invest little of their own money in a show, reap little of the profit (quite possibly none in the case of GENCO-produced shows like Toradora!, Zero no Tsukaima, and Nodame Cantabile), and are strongly bound to the whims of the contractors/financiers. That's a sharp contrast from more creation/studio-oriented productions like those of BONES, Gainax, Gonzo, etc. Quote:
Now this isn't a good excuse, but the hit-or-miss track record (which characterizes the vast majority of these animation studios) shouldn't be unexpected. |
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2009-03-19, 00:35 | Link #135 |
緩和
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Just because their engaged though doesn't necessarily mean they will immediately get married. If there really ARE laws in Japan stating anyone under 20 can't marry without parent permission, maybe their actual marriage plans were meant to happen later than sooner.
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2009-03-19, 00:35 | Link #136 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Well, regarding the production topic, we could go on and on about it, and actually I should probably create a separate thread in General if I could just come up with the right way of phrasing it -- I'll think about it. In any event, apologies for the slight tangent (though not totally unrelated to the show), and back to the main topic at hand (though I expect the main topic will remain somewhat quiet until the subs are released).
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2009-03-19, 01:03 | Link #137 |
like to talk to fish?
Join Date: Feb 2009
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I was watching the bridge scene in HD on youtube and the snow effect is really cool. i think its the best animated snow I have seen. I also never realized just how compressed youtube audio was until I switched in the middle of the theme song over to HD.
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2009-03-19, 01:13 | Link #138 |
Your wife is hot...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: At your house fixing A/C
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considering that ruuji's mom is 33, and ruuji is 17, this put his mom being a minor when she is having ruuji. About being underage parents in anime/manga, there are actually a few example, solid example like Cardcaptor, sakura's mother, i think in maria holic, kanako mention that her mom was underaged too when she is married.
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2009-03-19, 01:22 | Link #139 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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The director/series comp for Zero no Tsukaima, Shana, ToraDora are all different, yeah ZnT 2 and 3 were bad, but that doesn't mean you can lump everything onto JC Staff.
The director for ToraDora! doesn't even work for JC Staff, he's a freelancer and the last thing he did w/ them was Honey and Clover 2 Series comp was done by the same lady that did Kodomo no Jikan/Vampire Knight (both shows are pretty well adapted from their source). Light novels are not always easy to adapt and especially ones that rely on inner monologue as much as Toradora does - but I think they did a pretty good job with Toradora and Toaru Majutsu no Index this season, much better adaptions than ZnT and Shana atleast, but that falls squarely on the director and series composition not on JC Staff. |
2009-03-19, 01:26 | Link #140 | |||
進む道は武士道のみ
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago)
Age: 36
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Edit: One last thing. Quote:
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For back on topic, what do you guys think about the issue of the age 18 that I brought up? |
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