Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[winter45]

Originally Posted by monstert

Maybe so, but from what I've read on this forum, I don't think they're trying (at least, not so much or not anymore) to appease UC fans with a CE production.

They got novels/mangas for UC fans, and 00 for the current generation of fans. So if anything, any future CE production should try first to appeal to CE fans more than anybody else, whatever that means to them.

Yup fully aware of that.. thats y i stated at the end its not going to happen

But would be nice tho

[monster]

Originally Posted by winter45

But would be nice tho

On second thought, I disagree. Making something that's good for one set of audience is hard enough. And I'd rather they don't try to make any more unnecessary compromise.

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

dies from reading the poor guy's message, gelven... what do you think are you doing?


This is a thread that deals with speculation about the coming(is it?) incarnations of CE. And the world doesn't care if Kira and Lacus have anything to do about it. It doesn't matter if they wipe out the main cast of SEED and start out with new ones to get a breath of fresh air, face it! The SEED mains have exhausted their appeal and it's really time to get something fresh for a change.

And to get this thread rolling, I believe that IF they are to give life to CE again, they should start off with something really new...

well excuse me but i'm doing some "explaining"

& besides i'm also wanted to see another GS project either if it's 3rd season or even spinoffs

& oh yeah winter45 the main guy in stargazer name is Sven Cal Bayan besides i like you're thinking of putting the stargazer staff in a another GS project also there the staff of mini GS & astray besides they could take over the next GS project.

or maybe i'll have something for GS besides i've planned the next GS story.

[Cherudim Arche]

I think you forgot destiny astray and delta astray as well, if you are mention all the side stories then. It would also be a good time to explain more about the photonovels.

[aeriolewinters]

A good Idea would be to use the remnant of the Minerva crew + new characters. This saga needs a break from Kira, Athrun ,and especially Lacus. What this show needs is a breath of fresh air.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

A good Idea would be to use the remnant of the Minerva crew + new characters.

Well, Rey and Talia are dead, the maintenance staff is pretty nondescript, Arthur is a pointless character, Shinn may have left ZAFT, and Meyrin likely got moved to a position closer to Lacus. So you're basically proposing a show about Lunamaria and a whole host of new characters taking their orders from Lacus. I don't really see anything particularly fresh about this idea.

If they really wanted some freshness, it'd be sort of easy - simply set the show in Cosmic Era 120 or later, and most of the existing characters will no longer have an active role. It'd also be around the time when the Coordinator fertility crisis starts making PLANT very nervous, so there's plenty of potential for conflict. Alternatively, they can make a much smaller scale show that concentrated on just a small part of the world to tell a more tightly focused story rather than one based on the entire Earth Sphere. An Atlantic Federation succession war, or something like that would be fascinating.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

A good Idea would be to use the remnant of the Minerva crew + new characters. This saga needs a break from Kira, Athrun ,and especially Lacus. What this show needs is a breath of fresh air.

When I started watching Seed: Destiny, I felt that the whole Minerva crew and idea was a total rip off of the Archangel. From the very beginning of the show through to almost the very end, it felt like the Minerva was sent through scenarios that were experienced by the Archangel in Gundam Seed (early launching and unprepared action dealing with stolen suits; dealing with a pilot returning enemy personnel in an unauthorized manner; coming down to and operating on Earth despite being a space-class ship). The only difference was that the Minerva's crew was seemingly more bland and less likeable than the Archangel.

The only way that a third season could break away from Kira, Lacus, and Athrun would be to set it 100 years or so in the future. It's distant enough that the characters would either be aged into obsoletion (still providing for a kick-ass scene of old-man Kira getting into the seat for one more round of butt-stomping) or dead, but theoretically close enough that the events of Seed and Seed: Destiny wouldn't be forgotten and could be mentioned. Then again, in Seed: Destiny, the events of Seed were downplayed, in my opinion - here I thought that Kira and Athrun would be regarded as gods who stopped the war, but only a few characters seemed to even know who Athrun was. Neither Kira, Athrun, or Lacus received celebrity treatment beyond what they would have had normally.

To cut through my ramblings, since the original SEED cast made such a strong appearence in SEED: Destiny, it wouldn't be possible to replace them with a drastically new cast (or even the remaining cast of the Minerva) without setting the time frame much farther in the future. If you have a set of characters featured in two series and then just suddenly drop them from the third, it'd likely result in many confused and angry fans.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Well, Rey and Talia are dead, the maintenance staff is pretty nondescript, Arthur is a pointless character, Shinn may have left ZAFT, and Meyrin likely got moved to a position closer to Lacus. So you're basically proposing a show about Lunamaria and a whole host of new characters taking their orders from Lacus. I don't really see anything particularly fresh about this idea.

It was a shame that Arthur was a joke character. It would have been (consistent? interesting?) if Arthur had played the "tough but fair arse" that second in commands are supposed to, and it would have let him butt heads with Shinn. Which actually would have given some weight to the common description of "Shinn has problems with authority," rather than the on-screen truth being "Shinn has problems with Athrun."

If they really wanted some freshness, it'd be sort of easy - simply set the show in Cosmic Era 120 or later, and most of the existing characters will no longer have an active role. It'd also be around the time when the Coordinator fertility crisis starts making PLANT very nervous, so there's plenty of potential for conflict. Alternatively, they can make a much smaller scale show that concentrated on just a small part of the world to tell a more tightly focused story rather than one based on the entire Earth Sphere. An Atlantic Federation succession war, or something like that would be fascinating.

You have no idea how much I want to salvage the Atlantic Federation, wo went from being racist but competant (and slightly devious, with redeeming characters) in Seed to just racist and moronic of Destiny. You would think that after the first war, they would purge the Blue Cosmos that made stupid decisions that made the war worse for them, (and this would still leave them open to LOGOS). You would also think that they would have done something of note during Destiny, besides play evil buly nation against ORB.


Bah, once exams are done I can try and write down my own thoughts/sequal which has been bouncing in my head forever. (It involves, amoung other things, and FAE attack inside the PLANTS, a war against Terminal followed by political intrigue, and the deliberate sabatoge of the PLANT's work against the fertility crisis. In the first of two or three arcs. Sound good so far?)

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Then again, in Seed: Destiny, the events of Seed were downplayed, in my opinion - here I thought that Kira and Athrun would be regarded as gods who stopped the war, but only a few characters seemed to even know who Athrun was. Neither Kira, Athrun, or Lacus received celebrity treatment beyond what they would have had normally.

I sort of liked that about Destiny. It's only natural that relatively few people would know the finer details about the Cosmic Era 71 war since every party had something to hide.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

It was a shame that Arthur was a joke character. It would have been (consistent? interesting?) if Arthur had played the "tough but fair arse" that second in commands are supposed to, and it would have let him butt heads with Shinn. Which actually would have given some weight to the common description of "Shinn has problems with authority," rather than the on-screen truth being "Shinn has problems with Athrun."

I don't know if such a character would have worked very well in Destiny. From a writing point of view, Shinn's character development was supposed to be funneled through Stellar (and failing horribly at that), and your proposed character would have interfered with that. Besides, Durandal had plenty of reason to surround Shinn with pliable personalities, so he would have kept a no-nonsense officer away from him.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

You would also think that they would have done something of note during Destiny, besides play evil buly nation against ORB.

In Destiny, the EA's role was twofold: to trick the audience into thinking they were the main villains, and to fall apart in order to make way for Durandal's plans.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Bah, once exams are done I can try and write down my own thoughts/sequal which has been bouncing in my head forever. (It involves, amoung other things, and FAE attack inside the PLANTS, a war against Terminal followed by political intrigue, and the deliberate sabatoge of the PLANT's work against the fertility crisis. In the first of two or three arcs. Sound good so far?)

Hmm... If the Atlantic Federation could make attacks inside of PLANT, they'd probably have to be covert, so would it mean that enough time has passed for the two nations to have re-established relations and trade. Here's a few questions you might want to think about addressing:
- Is the EA reconstituted, or is the Atlantic Federation going it on their own?
- What motive does the Atlantic Federation have for starting another war, is it a resurgence of racism, a thirst for revenge, or is it to achieve something specific?
- Why and how would they go after Terminal? I can't recall Terminal ever acting against the EA, so would they even be aware of its existence?
- At the end of the Cosmic Era 73 war, Orb arguably would play a larger role in Earth's affairs than the Atlantic Federation does, so how do the relations of these two nations play out? After all, despite the personal relations between Cagalli and Lacus, an Orb-Atlantic Federation alignment is more natural than an Orb-PLANT one. So what role will Orb play in these affairs?

[winter45]

Question @ Dean the young

In your story will kira and lacus be omnipetant?

Will KLAC have opponant(s) that is immune to mind rapes?

and lastly will there be any KLAC one sided smackdowns?

But so far your ideas sounds interesting

[Dean_the_Young]

The story idea has tree main parts timeline: a scattered series of scenes during the First and Second Valentine Wars to not only introduce the characters, but to flesh them out a bit. However, all the scenes won't be in the prologue (some will be flashbacks), and one particularly important encounter won't be revealed until the final arc.

Now I'll answer these in order, and thanks for letting me get this down so that I won't lose it.

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Hmm... If the Atlantic Federation could make attacks inside of PLANT, they'd probably have to be covert, so would it mean that enough time has passed for the two nations to have re-established relations and trade.

First, you want spoilers? I already mentioned some important ones, but if you to hear how they go into te plot...

They have. The second arc (which will be shorter than the first) takes place about 6 or 7 years after Destiny. The general situation is that ZAFT is clearly the strongest under Chairwoman Clyne, the Earth Alliance has been neutered by Orb's massive status that not only rivals the Atlantic Federation and the (East) Eurasion Alliance (West Eurasia is a ZAFT ally), but also that Orb enjoys massive ZAFT support. All the while, Terminal/Three Ships Alliance acts as an autonomous force (in actuality under complete control of the Clyne Faction) that can intervene into military conflicts/disputes as they see fit to keep the peace. However, trade and relations have been restored, and all the nations in the world (including the AF) have agreed to work together in a joint task force (which is supported/enforced by the Three Ships Alliance) to root out the Blue Cosmos and LOGOS remnants. Another interesting tidbit is that it is a public secret that ZAFT and the Clyne-aligned factions like Terminal provide secret support for "desirable" candidates in all levels of elections. It's not too surprising for anti-coordinator firebrands to have incriminating evidence found that links them to Blue Cosmos or LOGOS, which all nations have banned from serving any elected office. The arc really gets moving as suddenly, terrorist attacks rack the PLANTS as an FAE (circulated through the colony's environmental system) and numerous "bat bombs" are released in a high-profile research colony. Not only were these centers high-profile centers for genetically modifying new coordinators, they were also engaged in top secret research for fixing the coordinator fertility crisis. Now Terminal has been let loosed to find whoever did it, and the first straws they grasp are some possible leads to remenants of Blue Cosmos, and the one nation that has been the least complying in rooting them out, leading to conflict...

(In short, a Terminal-AF War on shaky grounds, with a bit of a twist of an ending. Bad treaty results, though.)



Third Arc (with maybe a few transition scenes) takes place about 16 or 20 years later. (Need to check dates for that.) Lacus is still Chairwoman, Atha is still leader, but everywhere else there is a new leader. The Atlantic Federation's second-term (and approaching a third) president is actually a national and world hero for his role in ending the Terminal-AF War (or the Terminal Conflict), and has also been a very influential leader in the AF before assuming office. Despite this, he is no friend of ZAFT or Orb, and works to overturn the treaty that concluded the Terminal Conflict, which limited various parts of the Atlantic Federation forces and banned them from reconstructing their moon bases and so on. Relations are tense, and a visit from Orb Representative Atha go spiraling out of control as a terrorist attack launched on the President while meeting Atha is linked a coordinator terrorist group that has in the past received Terminal backing for digging up LOGOS and Blue Cosmos holdouts. The Atlantic Federation responds with an invasion of the ZAFT-aligned country that refuses the AF's demands in regards to the terrorists (not because they love or support them, but because the AF's demands for bases from which to work from would make them a battleground should war break out, as most expect it to.) Clyne sends the Three Ship Alliance, backed by a ZAFT force from Gibraltar, to stop the invasion, but the first battle is a complete upset of expectations, and as the war continues it becomes more and more clear that the Atlantic Federation has prepared for war while Clyne preached peace.


(One of the reocurring themes of this piece is "third chances." "Third time's the charm" is balanced with the looming saying "The first time Carthage was defeated..."

Here's a few questions you might want to think about addressing:
- Is the EA reconstituted, or is the Atlantic Federation going it on their own?

The EA is effectively split between Orb (pro-peace and pro-ZAFT) and the AF (anti-ZAFT), while the Eurasian Federation has been much reduced with the loss of Europe west of Poland. However, I intend to try and raise the playing power of East Asia and South America. For the most part, though, it is the AF going with whichever allies it can make. (One point I'm going to try and put across is that it's only bullying for those who disagree; otherwise it's agreement of principle.)

- What motive does the Atlantic Federation have for starting another war, is it a resurgence of racism, a thirst for revenge, or is it to achieve something specific?

This answer gets into spoiler territory, but underneath it all it's a nationalism coupled with revanchism. The Terminal Conflict has more subtle causes, but the thrid arc can best be described as "rebuilding their power peacefully if aggressively, but when attacked it's on."

I do intend to trace the AF public landscape out some, and to give some observations over the course of the time. But yes, there will be some Weimar Republic analogies in this.

- Why and how would they go after Terminal? I can't recall Terminal ever acting against the EA, so would they even be aware of its existence?

Terminal is the big intelligence network/armory for the Clyne Faction, so after Destiny it should have become a bit more obvious that someone was supplying the Clyne Faction with data and cutting-edge MS. But there's also another reason; a coordinator mole. (One thing I plan to suggest is that there were some coordinators who stayed in the AF; either because it was there home or for other reasons. They mostly kept their heads low (like German Jews) or worked as scientists for the government, especially in regards to MS.)

- At the end of the Cosmic Era 73 war, Orb arguably would play a larger role in Earth's affairs than the Atlantic Federation does, so how do the relations of these two nations play out? After all, despite the personal relations between Cagalli and Lacus, an Orb-Atlantic Federation alignment is more natural than an Orb-PLANT one. So what role will Orb play in these affairs?

Considering the bad blood between the AF and Orb (and Cagalli), while Cagelli agrees with Lacus and their mutual wishes for peace, I don't believe it unlikely for Orb to be at least distant, if not outright rivals, with the AF. In the Terminal Conflict six years after, half the reasoning (faulty/shakey as it is) is that the Atlantic Federation is undoubtably still harboring Blue Cosmos figures, and so may have well supported those that attacked ZAFT.

Then enters a 16/20 year period of AF rebuilding, reform, and purging of Blue Cosmos and LOGOS, actually led by the will-be president of the third arc. While Orb-AF relations could significantly improve during this period, once Mr. President (a hispanic, actually) sits in the Oval Office, the AF's days of accelerated rearmament and assertive foreign policy are back and once again clashing with Orb's ideals. (It doesn't help that the President is disdainful of Cagelli, having served under Neo Roanoke during the events of Destiny. That's another plot factor to: the AF charges Neo (Mwu) with crimes against humanity for his part in the extended project (which has been seized by the AF government in the first arc and decomissioned as a center for altering non-volunteers)).


Oh yes, so I don't forget to mention it, there will be some pages detailing how the AF changes from "anti-coordinator" to "anti-ZAFT," replacing the racist element with a nationalist element.

Originally Posted by winter45

Question @ Dean the young

In your story will kira and lacus be omnipetant?

Hardly. Think more in terms of already being in control of the strongest nation around (ZAFT), and their policies will have to meet with reality. Kira may be the best pilot around, but a lot changes in 20 years, as Yzak will angrily point out once ZAFT begins rearming.

Will KLAC have opponant(s) that is immune to mind rapes?

Oh yes. The Lacus-idol phenomenum is mostly linked to the PLANT, after all. Now that she's in control there, it's of less use on earth. Never had an effect on the earth powers before, really.

and lastly will there be any KLAC one sided smackdowns?

Individual MS-scale smackdown? Perhaps. Will they have victories? Definitely. But here's the hint for the final arc; while the AF began accelarated rearmament early, Lacus Clyne did not.

But so far your ideas sounds interesting

Thanks. Guess I'll just keep posting thoughts, outlines here if you don't mind spoilers.

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by winter45

Question @ Dean the young

In your story will kira and lacus be omnipetant?

Will KLAC have opponant(s) that is immune to mind rapes?

and lastly will there be any KLAC one sided smackdowns?

But so far your ideas sounds interesting

which "KLAC" you're talking about???

besides i might think you've a problem with "KLAC"?!

& look there might another GS project it might have invole "KLAC" or any other GS characters so maybe i should just say this GS is the 00s decade of gundam series.

[winter45]

KLAC as in kira, Lacus, Athrun and Cagalli characters.

Just tryin to find out if Dean_the_young is going to stay true with CE timeline in character wise.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by winter45

KLAC as in kira, Lacus, Athrun and Cagalli characters.

Just tryin to find out if Dean_the_young is going to stay true with CE timeline in character wise.

They'll have their spot, but it'll increasingly become harder and harder for them.

For example, a 12-vs-1 match in which the Strike Freedom fails to total any mobile suit for three minutes before good old buddy Athrun breaks their formation.

And Lacus's book on the events of Destiny is definitely going to be controversial.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

First, you want spoilers?

Oh, I'm not really looking for spoilers, I'm just trying to point out a few things that you should address. Good work so far.

By the way, you might want to change the name "Terminal". In Destiny, Terminal is just an information-gathering organization. As far as we know it's not armed, nor is it an alternative name for Lacus' supporters.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

But here's the hint for the final arc; while the AF began accelarated rearmament early, Lacus Clyne did not.

Heh. I'd have figured that Lacus would more likely be over-aggressive rather than fall behind in an arms race.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

And Lacus's book on the events of Destiny is definitely going to be controversial.

Given how secretive she is, I'd be rather surprised if she said anything about the events of Destiny. Keep in mind that she didn't even tell Kira about the stuff that she had done, and what she had planned until she had to.

[Zenemis]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

...(still providing for a kick-ass scene of old-man Kira getting into the seat for one more round of butt-stomping) or dead...QUOTE]

I could so see old-man-Kira taking the main character seat after such an event, again

[D-KLAC]

well GS movie will be the one that will be a part of GS's fate in the gundam world.

& if GS movie ok well there will be more GS in the future but right maybe i should start on my "project" for GS.

[dreamless]

well I'd like to see a third part of the GS series, so it can confirm my prediction that Lacus is the current head priestess of LOGOS

Near the beginning of GSD I have predicted that the whole thing will turn out to be an internal struggle of LOGOS, where Lacus and Malchio lead the fundamental arm, Dullindal leads the science arm, and Dijibril leads the business arm. Back then no one took my prediction seriously, they all said "nah Lacus can't be part of LOGOS, and Dullindal can't be part of LOGOS, hell he wants to destroy LOGOS", but in the end it turns out Dullindal is indeed a member of LOGOS, so I guess I'm the first one in the world that predicted this, maybe even before Fukuda

[Cherudim Arche]

If you do start one, at least make it purely based on the antagonist or some faction in between other than Logos and the astray side stories.

For technology make it advance, but not to the point where every weapon is a spam even for a war. There could be a spy from a unknown faction taking data from Logos and Terminal and found out centuries later to take things in their own hand.

Everything starts at ground zero for all miltiary in the beginning. That means small forces or being disbanded. Later on, technology changes the world and miltiary grap hold of for control. All enemy faction ally together to create a empire.

[carmolita]

I can't wait for the movie or series so that fukada can tie up the loose ends from destiny such as: talia son! Other than the pic of him being a little boy and flashbacks.... Not much else is known. Any speculations??