Timing Guide

[Ramza]

Hi guys, i've got a strange problem. I subbed FMA ep.44 , saved the ssa file, opened vdub, raw file and added the subs using filter. And when i checked compressed file it was totally crapped. Quality went way down, the whole movie was playing as in slow-mo and everything just sucked. I tried divx and xvid compression and nothing. Could you help me in any way?

[zalas]

Originally Posted by Ramza

Hi guys, i've got a strange problem. I subbed FMA ep.44 , saved the ssa file, opened vdub, raw file and added the subs using filter. And when i checked compressed file it was totally crapped. Quality went way down, the whole movie was playing as in slow-mo and everything just sucked. I tried divx and xvid compression and nothing. Could you help me in any way?

Looks like you might have left compression settings to some default, which included a low bitrate. I would recommend checking that by going to the select compression dialog box and configuring your encoder. For more information, visiting www.doom9.org is a good first step. Check out their guides on encoding.

[Kawaii_tsunami]

I have another question....when i play the file i just timed it turns kinda black and the sound kinda stops and starts and stops and starts..etc..
does anyone know y it happens?? or how to fix it??

[zalas]

Originally Posted by Kawaii_tsunami

I have another question....when i play the file i just timed it turns kinda black and the sound kinda stops and starts and stops and starts..etc..
does anyone know y it happens?? or how to fix it??

I don't know if you're playing this thing in a media player with directvobsub, or in Virtualdub using filters or playing the rendered output. If you're in Virtualdub, you might have problems playing things that are encoded in VBR MP3 audio. You might also have problems if your computer simply can't render the video fast enough.

[Sylf]

You must be using the playback feature of Sub Station Alpha. And if that's true, then that's not a bug, but it's a feature. The audio is audible only while there are subtitles showing. Use VirtualDub(mod) and TextSub filter, so you can actually see the sub in the picture.

[Kawaii_tsunami]

ok im going to try it.thank u

[Kawaii_tsunami]

I have another question...
when i finish timing with vdub, and saving it, it goes at 10 fps
is that good or bad??
is that y my video is sometimes scratchy?

and is 10 fps suitable for a timer??
and the bitrate of the video is somewhere near 840.
is 840 too slow?
thank u!!

[Ryo-oh-ki]

I just thought I'd throw another perspective on this subject.

I also time show on-the-fly and have done so for a number of years. (a few hundred eps)

I personally use a minimum time of 0.70 seconds for each subtitle (except for some strange circumstances) and try to add another 0.20 or 0.30 to the end of normal subtitle lines. I also try to not leave less than a 0.50 sec gap between subtitles. I've gone back and forth on whether or not to cut lines before a scene change. Nowadays I think it's more effort than it's worth, but it does indeed look nicer when it's done.

One thing I've noticed is that the smallest difference that can actually be noticed in timing is about 2 frames worth, unless you're talking about captions. 2 frames is about 0.06666 seconds or 6 2/3 hundredths of a second. And even then, most "normal" (not fansubbers) people can't tell if a subtitle is wrong unless it's almost 0.20 seconds off.

And since I work doing subtitles with a friend of mine, I've also noticed one other thing that is somewhat obvious if you think about it. The beginning and ending times of spoken dialogue in a show is judgemental. We sometimes have disagreements about when a line should begin or end. Sometimes it comes down to what someone can hear versus what someone else can hear. Other times it comes down to preference as to if you want it to begin with a breath-like sound or with a harder sound or whatnot. And finally, different audio systems may make lines sound early or late depending on how it was timed.

Anyway, I've found that for me, the thing that takes the most amount of time is fixing the script to sound nice compared to what was said in japanese. I spend more time doing that than the timing effort I think.

For a normal TV series episode that's about 25 mins, I typically:

1) Edit the script ahead of time to fix any glaring mistakes, break up lines (guessing), make changes to the script to conform to my own style.

2) Time the episode "on-the-fly" 3 times, saving the last time. The first and second times through, I'll pause my source video and write down any lines which I want to change before doing the last timing and fix it in the script. There's not typically that many, but bad scripts can generate a lot of changes.

3) I run off the timed script with my subbing program and have it display a clock on the screen to work from when editing.

4) I sit down with a friend and watch the show, pausing, rewinding, and fixing any problems we encounter. I call this the "edit." Again, we typically end up spending more time fixing the script words than the script times.

5) Repeat step 3.

6) Repeat step 4. I call it the "proof."

7) I add in any credits or anything else that is necessary.


I think the method I use to time is just as accurate as someone who times with wave timing. I had arguements about this when .wav timing was first time, and I'm still sticking to my guns. Someone can time very poorly using .wav timing, just as with on-the-fly timing, and someone can time well with both methods. It just depends on what suits you more. In both cases, to get accurate times, you have to go and edit/proof the timings. I just can't imagine looking at some .wav file for as long as some people do. It suits me more to just watch and enjoy the show a few times in a row.


Incidentally (sp?), the fastest I've timed something on-the-fly was just timing every episode once. I did this for an LD box set I own for my own viewing purposes, and it worked out well enough to watch. It had 70-some episodes in it and I occassionally screwed up big time, but in those cases, I just fixed the time the next time I watched it. I still think I did a better time than some of the old Arctic subs But you can't beat that for quickness in timing, if you just want a rough set of times.

Kyle

[FATa|]

Originally Posted by Ramza

Hi guys, i've got a strange problem. I subbed FMA ep.44 , saved the ssa file, opened vdub, raw file and added the subs using filter. And when i checked compressed file it was totally crapped. Quality went way down, the whole movie was playing as in slow-mo and everything just sucked. I tried divx and xvid compression and nothing. Could you help me in any way?

The most major reason for this happening (it happens to me and makes sorting out scene bleeds a bitch) is because of your computer specs. Its probably tooo slow, or too overloaded with other programs. I checked this theory by running a subtitling filter on vdub on my computer with regular programs running. then I went on my mums new computer and di the same thing with same files and it was very much faster (like i said new comp, better specs) then i went back to my comp and got rid of everything i didnt need off the system control manager; sysreset.exe, msnmsgr.exe, xxxtools.exe (lol - damn bug) and everything else, you could probably even get rid of explorer if you needed to. this helps speed htings up. then you need to optimize the settings in vdub. Here is the process i go through for optimum performance:

1) minimize input video to 25%

2) video has to stay on full proccessing mode but audio can be set to direct stream copy

3) stop input video from playing (f9 or options.display input video)

4) Instead of using source audio, use a .wav file (taken earlier for use i SSA i presume) that is of extremely low quality (mono, 8bit)

5) options> sync to audio this is default. make sure you dont select t odro frames when behind as this will make it impossible to scene bleed check. better to see it all slowly than not at all.

That should help considerably in minimising CPU usage.
I personally use SSA and vdub. I time off the wav in SSA (takes a couple hours; i've never done it without distractions, i think i would explode, and i always play each line twice over before i select the times so as to check for errors) then once I've done that I watch it in Vdub and right down (by hand yes) all the times that need changing due to scenen bleeds or errors. watch the areas which i knew were off and then send .ssa file off for qc. I usually try and rely on the editor to do his job properly. If, when I mature and my brain leanrs to concentrate more, perhaps i could time an average episode in.... 40 minutes being careless (thats probably testement to my perfectionist mentality)

[Kanji13]

Thanks Sasaki for:
"The Art of putting subtitles
On a video and audio stream"

I already using SSA to do the timing, it's a very useful tool, but don't you think although it is the best but it lack somthing, cause .wav alone not enough to complete the translation, you need raw to time other words like episode,letters, signs.
did you hear of a program called Sabbu? it's still beta, but i think it will be better than SSA, you can choose from timing using audio or video.
SSA contains KARAOKE thingy... i don't make karaoke with it to be honest, cause Arabic language read words from right to left, i usually karoke manually and it's a tough job i assure you that . so how about Karaoke with SSA, does it looks OK?
i'll show you one sentence using Arabic language to make the KARAOKE:
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:01:28.46,0:01:30.45,Style1,Comment,0400 ,0000,0000,,{\alpha&HC0&\t(0,300,1,\alpha&H00&)}{\ c&H0044ff}فِـيـل
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:01:28.46,0:01:30.45,Style1,Comment,0225 ,0000,0000,,{\alpha&HC0&\t(300,350,1,\alpha&H00&)} {\c&H0044ff}نـو
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:01:28.46,0:01:30.45,Style1,Comment,0000 ,0000,0000,,{\alpha&HC0&\t(350,650,1,\alpha&H00&)} {\c&H0044ff}شَيــم
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:01:28.46,0:01:30.45,Style1,Comment,0000 ,0240,0000,,{\alpha&HC0&\t(650,750,1,\alpha&H00&)} {\c&H0044ff}أبَاوتْ
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:01:28.46,0:01:30.45,Style1,Comment,0000 ,0410,0000,,{\alpha&HC0&\t(750,1000,1,\alpha&H00&) }{\c&H0044ff}شَيبْ
All the above just to make one sentence !! tough isn't it?
Thanks

[ultrataro]

I used to use SSA & wave. I've switched to SW and take script into SSA for final positioning & style editing. I find having the video in addition to wav audio to be better. I find the most of the time shifting features of SW hard to use though, but don't usually use it. I use just the grab start time & end time buttons & set the step interval to match as closely as the frame rate as can. Need a reasonably fast machine Note that I'm pretty much a one man operation, I do the translation & initial timing as one step. Go back to do signs & written text. At this point already, good enough that I generate a rough video that I hand off to friend for proofing & editing. While he's doing that I'll fine tune some timing, but usually not a whole lot is needed.
I try to avoid subtitles that bleed over scene changes. I find when I'm watching & bleed happens, there's a tendancy to think a new title has started & the eye automatically starts to read the title again. But no rule is concrete with me. I try to avoid longer than two line subs, but sometimes it's hard to avoid. Super short titles I do really try to avoid. .5 seconds is pretty close to too short. I'll start a event early or let it bleed if it'll otherwise get shorter. Too short get's distracting, when it pops up, your eye automatically goes to read it, but by that time it's gone. & a lot of times the event is pretty close to not needing translation anyway, so I'd almost rather leave it out. These kind of events it doesn't make sense to make the viewer have to go back & pause. If on the other hand it's just plain manic I'll do it, as even if you know the language you'd probably have to go back & rewatch it to catch everything anyway.
Anyway, that's how I like to do things, but the stuff i do is pretty much just for myself & friends.

[Sergejack]

Originally Posted by Kanji13

Thanks Sasaki for:
"The Art of putting subtitles
On a video and audio stream"

I already using SSA to do the timing, it's a very useful tool, but don't you think although it is the best but it lack somthing, cause .wav alone not enough to complete the translation, you need raw to time other words like episode,letters, signs.
did you hear of a program called Sabbu? it's still beta, but i think it will be better than SSA, you can choose from timing using audio or video.
SSA contains KARAOKE thingy... i don't make karaoke with it to be honest, cause Arabic language read words from right to left, i usually karoke manually and it's a tough job i assure you that . so how about Karaoke with SSA, does it looks OK?
i'll show you one sentence using Arabic language to make the KARAOKE:
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:01:28.46,0:01:30.45,Style1,Comment,0400 ,0000,0000,,{\alpha&HC0&\t(0,300,1,\alpha&H00&)}{\ c&H0044ff}فِـيـل
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:01:28.46,0:01:30.45,Style1,Comment,0225 ,0000,0000,,{\alpha&HC0&\t(300,350,1,\alpha&H00&)} {\c&H0044ff}نـو
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:01:28.46,0:01:30.45,Style1,Comment,0000 ,0000,0000,,{\alpha&HC0&\t(350,650,1,\alpha&H00&)} {\c&H0044ff}شَيــم
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:01:28.46,0:01:30.45,Style1,Comment,0000 ,0240,0000,,{\alpha&HC0&\t(650,750,1,\alpha&H00&)} {\c&H0044ff}أبَاوتْ
Dialogue: Marked=0,0:01:28.46,0:01:30.45,Style1,Comment,0000 ,0410,0000,,{\alpha&HC0&\t(750,1000,1,\alpha&H00&) }{\c&H0044ff}شَيبْ
All the above just to make one sentence !! tough isn't it?
Thanks

Ask some programmer to write you some lines of code.

[Kanji13]

Originally Posted by Sergejack

Ask some programmer to write you some lines of code.

Yes you are right, since the Filter can't read "RTL". I think if i do some changes inside the filter source code it may works.
So.. can you give me the source code for textsub.vdf .

[vivideyecrystal]

Just playing around on some old music videos because I've got nothing better to do and have run into some trouble.

"
Start VDub
Go to "Video" ---> Filters.
Click the Add button.
Select TextSub
Click the Open button and select SSA file you saved.
Exit the filtering area and make sure the TextSub filter is loaded. "

I've followed the instructions up to here: I can't load TextSub in VDub, it's nowhere to be seen. It's not even an option. How do I do this?

I know this thread is old, but if someone could help a newbie that'd be great.

[martino]

Download the latest VSFilter from HERE. Extract the VSFilter.dll from the package, rename the extension to "vdf" and copy/move it into the VDub plugins directory and now it should work.

[edogawaconan]

no. for now, get Aegisub. It makes your life much easier

[GokuSoul]

Okay help me here i converted the AC3 audio from my dvd to wav pcm mono so i can open it in Aegisub. Then I timed it now when I attach the AC3 audio to the video everything is like 1 second too early now but when I put it to my wav its good. Problem is I want to use AC3 audio so how can i convert the wav pcm to AC3 so it can work?

[the.Merines]

Originally Posted by GokuSoul

Okay help me here i converted the AC3 audio from my dvd to wav pcm mono so i can open it in Aegisub. Then I timed it now when I attach the AC3 audio to the video everything is like 1 second too early now but when I put it to my wav its good. Problem is I want to use AC3 audio so how can i convert the wav pcm to AC3 so it can work?

So your WAV->AC3 converter somehow added a second of nothing before the audio? That's weird. In any case, try this page.

http://www.videohelp.com/guides.php?guideid=180#180

Hopefully that will help. I'm barely a noob at this stuff so it might not be what you're looking for.

[Neobody]

Originally Posted by vivideyecrystal

Just playing around on some old music videos because I've got nothing better to do and have run into some trouble.

"
Start VDub
Go to "Video" ---> Filters.
Click the Add button.
Select TextSub
Click the Open button and select SSA file you saved.
Exit the filtering area and make sure the TextSub filter is loaded. "

I've followed the instructions up to here: I can't load TextSub in VDub, it's nowhere to be seen. It's not even an option. How do I do this?

I know this thread is old, but if someone could help a newbie that'd be great.

lol! I am a Noob too... You need to install VobSub... when you are installing, maybe the second page, they ask you what do you want to install.
Go click more Option "+" for Plugins... and remember to check Plugins for VitualDub. Then u are done. Just complete the installation and you will find your plugins on VitualDub ^_^.

Hope this helps

[TheFluff]

DO NOT USE VOBSUB
NO REALLY I MEAN IT, DO NOT INSTALL IT FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE

What is known as "VobSub" is in fact an ancient and extremely buggy version of VSFilter. It does NOT have proper unicode support and you should NOT be using it under ANY circumstances.

Instead, do what martino said a few posts back. That will do you a lot more good.