Pokemon Black and White

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

still useless

In Standard, sure. In UU, Feraligatr is always fun to use. Sword Dance is always fun.

Also, Empoleon is probably close to equal to Swampert in terms of use. If you count Dream World, Blaziken will likely outmatch Infernape soon.

[Sety]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

1. the smug looking grass lizard is basically a faster chikorita = USELESS
2. Bacon - Fire/Fighting, i rank it the least of the 5 fire starters. it is basically a slower ver of Magamator with Fighting. Completely outclass by the previous 4 gen of Fire Starters.
3. The sea otter thingy tried for a balance Phy and Spe Attack but is too slow. I rank it with Totodaile, Useless.

Dream World sort of changes some things about though.

1. He has one good trick in the Dream World ability Contrarian which reverses stat downs. In short he can spam Leaf Storm and get +2 s.atk instead of -2.

2. Emboar is all kinds of fail though, hes the strongest of all the fire starters with Flare Blitz and Head Smash but will probably kill itself with recoil and those defenses. However Blaziken is now an epic BP'er and overall faster and stronger sweeper than Infernape thanks to Speed Boost.

3. I think you're horribly underestimating the Samurai Sea Otter, Megahorn, Aqua Jet, Revenge and Swords Dance make for some very good tools on that bulk.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Sety

Dream World sort of changes some things about though.

1. He has one good trick in the Dream World ability Contrarian which reverses stat downs. In short he can spam Leaf Storm and get +2 s.atk instead of -2.

Are you sure it works on self-inflicted stat ebbs? That seems ridiculous, if so.

2. Emboar is all kinds of fail though, hes the strongest of all the fire starters with Flare Blitz and Head Smash but will probably kill itself with recoil and those defenses. However Blaziken is now an epic BP'er and overall faster and stronger sweeper than Infernape thanks to Speed Boost.

Indeed. The monkey is dead, long live the rooster! The dragon (Charizard) also got a nice little niche boost, as did the mouse (Typhlosion).

[Xellos-_^]

i am not up to speed with the dream world stuff.

is that where all future p2p battles are fought in?

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i am not up to speed with the dream world stuff.

is that where all future p2p battles are fought in?

No, it's where you can get Pokemon with new abilities. Example: Ninetails and Politoed get Groudon and Kyogre's abilities, respectively. Other than that, it's kind of like the Secret Bases in Gen III.

[Sety]

Originally Posted by GDB

Are you sure it works on self-inflicted stat ebbs? That seems ridiculous, if so.

Yep its confirmed.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Sety

Dream World sort of changes some things about though.

1. He has one good trick in the Dream World ability Contrarian which reverses stat downs. In short he can spam Leaf Storm and get +2 s.atk instead of -2.

isn't that also going to make him slow?

Venusaur with its good spd is going to turn smugleaf into spinach with its poison attack.

Originally Posted by GDB

No, it's where you can get Pokemon with new abilities. Example: Ninetails and Politoed get Groudon and Kyogre's abilities, respectively. Other than that, it's kind of like the Secret Bases in Gen III.

oh ok.

form now on instead of hearing complaints of how overpower the monkey is we will now hear complaints of how over power the chicken is

QQ: does the Dream World Abilities get pass down by breeding?

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Sety

2. Emboar is all kinds of fail though, hes the strongest of all the fire starters with Flare Blitz and Head Smash but will probably kill itself with recoil and those defenses. However Blaziken is now an epic BP'er and overall faster and stronger sweeper than Infernape thanks to Speed Boost.

He fails by the fact he's the third fire/fighting starter in a row. COME ON, why the hell make the same type combination in a row for the fire starter...

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

form now on instead of hearing complaints of how overpower the monkey is we will now hear complaints of how over power the chicken is

QQ: does the Dream World Abilities get pass down by breeding?

Except you can't forget that you can't control the IVs and nature of the pokemon you get in the Dream World, so it is like, a sacrifice in stats for a new ability.
Of course, assuming it is possible, there will be maniacs spending their days playing mini-games and fighting connection errors to get high IV, perfect nature dream Pokemon. Poor people...

No. And because of that, you can't get egg moves on dream pokemon, so this is another way to balance out stuff, I guess.



Well... There is one thing that needs to happen first.
Damn it, Nintendo, fix the server already... Wait, nevermind. Take your time. I'm not ready for that stuff yet, so stall all of the others until I catch-up, bwahaha!

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Sety

3. I think you're horribly underestimating the Samurai Sea Otter, Megahorn, Aqua Jet, Revenge and Swords Dance make for some very good tools on that bulk.

if you need a defensive wall, the turtle still the best and it comes with spinning.

offensively with a speed of 70, i still don't see any reason use the otter over swampert. Megahorn is nice but Swampert still got a stab earthquake and it is still immune to electricity.

and the penguin with the steel sub-class got all sort of resistance. It is special attack is higher then the otter. Again I don't see much of reason to use the Otter over the penguin.

The only water starter it rank higher is the feralligator.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

No. And because of that, you can't get egg moves on dream pokemon, so this is another way to balance out stuff, I guess.

just read on smogon that the female can pass on abilities.

oh joy the hours people will spend looking for female chicken with speed boost. then countless more hours breeding for IV

[Qikz]

My copy of err white I think. Finally dispatched today. Hopefully I can play it soon. :P

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

just read on smogon that the female can pass on abilities.

Really?! (;O_O)
That's... Geh...
*starts praying PGL never comes back on*

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Again I don't see much of reason to use the Otter over the penguin.

LOVE! It's love!
Why would you use a physical Alakazam over any other fighting Pokemon? Love! (And to take out your opponent's dragons in a single hit)
Why would you use a special Rhyperior? Romance! (And to enjoy the moment your opponent's physical wall gets instantly killed when it comes out)
Metronome Dusknoir? Romance! (and metronoming is just so fun)
A full team of female Gardevoirs?! Because you are a creepy Otaku! (<--haven't done this yet, so don't look at me)
Assist Skill Swap Delcatty!
Torment Encore Infernape! (So doesn't work)
Sword Dance Qwilfish!
Roar-Whirlwind Aerodactyl!
Scarf Mimic Explosion Spinda!
*list goes on*

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Really?! (;O_O)
That's... Geh...
*starts praying PGL never comes back on*



LOVE! It's love!
Why would you use a physical Alakazam over any other fighting Pokemon? Love! (And to take out your opponent's dragons in a single hit)
Why would you use a special Rhyperior? Romance! (And to enjoy the moment your opponent's physical wall gets instantly killed when it comes out)
Metronome Dusknoir? Romance! (and metronoming is just so fun)
A full team of female Gardevoirs?! Because you are a creepy Otaku! (<--haven't done this yet, so don't look at me)
Assist Skill Swap Delcatty!
Torment Encore Infernape! (So doesn't work)
Sword Dance Qwilfish!
Roar-Whirlwind Aerodactyl!
Scarf Mimic Explosion Spinda!
*list goes on*

shouldn't that be a team of Male Gardevoirs

[ChainLegacy]

Jeez, all this strategy talk makes me happy I never got into competitive Pokemon. Sounds like it just ruins the fun of it (no offense to you guys that like it). I guess in my mind Pokemon has always been a kids game, but in truth it is like any other RPG (customization is impossible if you play competitively).

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Jeez, all this strategy talk makes me happy I never got into competitive Pokemon. Sounds like it just ruins the fun of it (no offense to you guys that like it). I guess in my mind Pokemon has always been a kids game, but in truth it is like any other RPG (customization is impossible if you play competitively).

i am not much of a competitive battler either (suck at it) but i am a min-maxer

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

shouldn't that be a team of Male Gardevoirs

Mmm~, nah. You know otaku and the perverted thoughts of men, to bring out an team of female pokemon and go "my waifu!".
Though as a joke, a team of Male Gardevoir or female Machamps does do the job.

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Jeez, all this strategy talk makes me happy I never got into competitive Pokemon. Sounds like it just ruins the fun of it (no offense to you guys that like it).

I guess in my mind Pokemon has always been a kids game, but in truth it is like any other RPG (customization is impossible if you play competitively).

I guess that is one of the good things about Pokemon.
You can enjoy it casually, and if you want, you can enjoy it in a more complicated way.
Kind of like how Super Smash Bros' commands are so simple, yet pretty deep?


No! Not really. If you play competitively, customization is still plenty possible. I play competitively, but I never decide "Okay, let's go to Smorgon or whatever and copy down some template boring movesets". One fun part of competitive Pokemon is the fact you can make all kinds of movesets and see how well they do against the opponent's Pokemon.
One reason I dislike stuff like Smorgon or UU or OU or whatever those stupid delusional categorizations are.

Of course, the weirder the movesets, the harder it is to win (Haha, defense curl --> Rollout still hasn't succeeded), but it is more enjoyable than say... using a Pokemon that was thought up by someone else and just destroying your opponent with Outrage or whatever.
Oh the dullness seeing Salamence use Draco Meteor right away for the nth time.
Oh the fun taking my opponent by surprise.

Then again, there are the people that would rather hack and cheat up a Pokemon instead of breeding one themselves, but there's nothing I can do about them... They'd only act defiant should I say anything.

And in a even higher level, we can look at the recent Pokemon world championship.
A person using a sunny day GRASS pokemon team won up to the semi-finals, amidst all of the people using templates and legendaries like Kyogre and Palkia.
Now that shows how you don't have to do what others are doing to win.

[Sety]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

I guess in my mind Pokemon has always been a kids game, but in truth it is like any other RPG (customization is impossible if you play competitively).

It wouldn't be popular competitively if it wasn't customizable. But its varied, engaging and constantly changing enough to keep most coming back for more.

[Who]

*Raises hand*
Guilty of looking at smogon and other places. Although I hate using pseudo-legendaries (i.e: Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite) and will never, ever touch ubers. Most of my faves are UU and BL, although I have been accused of cheesing multiple times by using a Spikes/Stealth Rock stall team.

In terms of starters, Mijumaru has really grown on me. Saw the first two episodes of BW to see how much it changed (it didn't) and Mijumaru is my fave now.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Sety

It wouldn't be popular competitively if it wasn't customizable. But its varied, engaging and constantly changing enough to keep most coming back for more.

Well, that's not true. Look at WoW, probably the least customizable RPG you could get but its massively popular. But I'll take your word for it that it is better than the average RPG in terms of personalization. But I'm guessing my lineups wouldn't work in competitive play, thus my comment.

[FlareKnight]

Have a friend that's getting into the competitive scene and it's just way too much for me personally. I'd just like to pick the pokemon I like and play. Not worry about IV/EV, synergy, etc. I can understand how some would really get into it, but that's just not my thing.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

He fails by the fact he's the third fire/fighting starter in a row. COME ON, why the hell make the same type combination in a row for the fire starter...

Kind of share the frustration there. Does someone in the development team dream of making a team of different fire starters that are all fire/fighting? If that's true we've still got 3 more of these guys before this person gets their full team . Seriously come up with a different combination already.

[Sety]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

But I'm guessing my lineups wouldn't work in competitive play, thus my comment.

Depends, plenty of people make novelty teams, its upto whether you actually understand what you're doing is whether they can survive competitively.

You just have to understand what your favourites are best at and what distinguishes them and work around that, of course if your favourite is Farfetch'd or Luvdisc than not even god can help you. ~_~

*Raises hand*
Guilty of looking at smogon and other places. Although I hate using pseudo-legendaries (i.e: Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite) and will never, ever touch ubers. Most of my faves are UU and BL, although I have been accused of cheesing multiple times by using a Spikes/Stealth Rock stall team.

Nothing wrong with looking at Smogon the advice they give is just that. Advice. Its obvious if you enjoy a game you'd want to learn abit more about it and try pushing the boundries.

Now accusing people of being cheesy for using spikes/SR is just silly, I've been able to break through them tons of times with non-standard teams and I'm sure lots of other people have.

Kind of share the frustration there. Does someone in the development team dream of making a team of different fire starters that are all fire/fighting? If that's true we've still got 3 more of these guys before this person gets their full team . Seriously come up with a different combination already.

Coming from someone who has picked the fire type 4 generations in a row...they're making it quite easy for me to change my decision for the first time ever. :/