Utawarerumono: Itsuwari no Kamen - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Utawarerumono: Itsuwari no Kamen, Episode 25.

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[Wade Wilson]

What a huge dissapointment, the director just fucked up the adaptation on too many places, not even the last scene in the VN was animated.

At least we know the third part of the game is coming but as we already know, there is no annoucement for s3.

The adaptation was something like this: 20 episodes of baths and 5 episodes with the real plot. Anything else was more or less pointless since they cut out lots of details. The designs and animation were good enough to keep the same style of the VN and I'm grateful for that.

As a final veredict this adaptation just deserves a 5/10, and if there is a future season 3 after the last game please get another director.

[foxbox360]

The first half of the series were all fillers and Haku was annoying as fuck Which killed the show for me.

[Stark700]

Oh now I get why the series branded as "false mask". Clever...

[ValvraveTruth]

I believe the fans are too hype and loyal to the visual novel, always complain the anime this and that. VN may comes first but they didn't say anything about the anime comes from the VN itself, both VN and anime comes from the one who wrote it. There is no such thing as total adaption to every anime/light novel/VN.

For me who watched many different types of anime even include precure/aikatsu/pretty rhythm anything most people might not watch, Utawarerumono anime series are very good, even if maybe half of the anime no plot and only onsen scene.

We don't really get to watch this type/kind of anime often in years - large scale and lengthy, the beautiful arts, old time/era, the plots AND those NEKOMIMI =)

7/10 should be alright, if you think it is below 6/10 then i really can't imagine those op animes that goes through your radar. Every fans has their own preference of course.

Itsuwari no kamen 偽りの仮面~

[FlareKnight]

Yeah, this show is about a couple episodes of good stuff at the start and some good stuff at the end. The 20 episodes in-between? What a waste.

Still, I feel like from an anime-only point of view that this episode was pretty good. I did wonder how the heck Haku died while Oshutoru was alive when he looked to be about to die at the start. The truth? He really did die . Well that takes care of that. In the end Oshutoru burned his life away in that battle and he paid the ultimate price. What a brutal hurt for Nekone and Haku who is taking on his identity. Although in reality telling his allies and Kuon probably is what he should have done. I get keeping the circle small but....it doesn't have to be that small.

Oh well, good acting at the early going though. Haku playing the part well. Though not sure how long he can really pull it off, he doesn't have nearly the combat mastery that Oshutoru had.

Also had this weird feeling when watching it. That this show took 25 episodes what it took the original show like 2 or 3 to do. Set up this big rise and the war ahead. Basically Haku has to rise up against Yamato and take over. The plan being to put the Princess on the throne, but whatever.

I don't know. The episode was pretty good. The emotional farewell for Oshutoru was pretty good. 8 or 9 out of 10 episode.....5 or 6 out of 10 series though. I have no idea how the game played out honestly. But the majority of this show was boring and uninteresting.

[Azurial]

I don't care on what any one said that this is poor anime adaptation that deserve a 3/10 or 4/10. Im just happy with the way it is. we can't always expect everything to be the way we wanted to be ,when it comes to adaptation of VN, adaptating a VN is mostly summary of the whole story to make it shorter and put some fan service in it. so i give this about 8/10 i like pretty much everything cause is Utawarerumono even tho first season i last watch was 9 yrs ago back then i didn't really care much about the story i only watch it because the fight was EPIC and this 2nd one it got me into this whole Utawarerumono story. Also i didn't give it 10/10 because.......... they didn't show what happen after the credits in the game......... im sad :P but everything met all the thing i expected to be animated. except the the last scene in the game. Good Job Aquaplus i hope you surprise me well with the 3rd and final game

[Tong]

Originally Posted by ValvraveTruth

I believe the fans are too hype and loyal to the visual novel, always complain the anime this and that. VN may comes first but they didn't say anything about the anime comes from the VN itself, both VN and anime comes from the one who wrote it.

You do realize that in any serious discussion about anything related to the series, the source material/Visual Novel has much more weight than the animation right?

Yes there's no perfect adaptation, but the issue with Itsuwari no Kamen is that the core elements related to the characters and story (VERY important) were basically cut off to favor the fanservice. And with this, we have an adaptation that leaves much to be desired and that gives a completely different impression of the series to the viewer, that has never played the game.

This is why good and proper anime adaptations are important. Utawarerumono 1 was a good adaptation, for example. Itsuwari no Kamen is not.

[Azurial]

Originally Posted by Tong

You do realize that in any serious discussion about anything related to the series, the source material/Visual Novel has much more weight than the animation right?

Yes there's no perfect adaptation, but the issue with Itsuwari no Kamen is that the core elements related to the characters and story (VERY important) were basically cut off to favor the fanservice. And with this, we have an adaptation that leaves much to be desired and that gives a completely impression of the series to the viewer, that has never played the game.

This is why good and proper anime adaptations are important. Utawarerumono 1 was a good adaptation, for example. Itsuwari no Kamen is not.

That what all most anime adaptation are fan services = money XD mostly in Japan the viewer likes fan services more that what i think i could be wrong :P

[Wade Wilson]

Originally Posted by Tong

You do realize that in any serious discussion about anything related to the series, the source material/Visual Novel has much more weight than the animation right?

Yes there's no perfect adaptation, but the issue with Itsuwari no Kamen is that the core elements related to the characters and story (VERY important) were basically cut off to favor the fanservice. And with this, we have an adaptation that leaves much to be desired and that gives a completely impression of the series to the viewer, that has never played the game.

This is why good and proper anime adaptations are important. Utawarerumono 1 was a good adaptation, for example. Itsuwari no Kamen is not.

THIS

Finally someone smart enough to understand the real problem with Itsuwari no Kamen. This wasn't a good adaptation leaving aside the VA and animation, there are important elements of the game being deleted here and there, and those elements are very important for the character development department and obviously in the story.

[Shadow5YA]

Were the twins supposed to disguise Haku's voice as well as his appearance? Because it should be pretty obvious that Haku's voice is different from Oshutoru's. Why didn't Kuon or any of the others catch that?

[AkitoW013]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Were the twins supposed to disguise Haku's voice as well as his appearance? Because it should be pretty obvious that Haku's voice is different from Oshutoru's. Why didn't Kuon or any of the others catch that?

Because he's truly good at it, he even fooled Nekone in the game, if he can fool her, he can fool everyone else.

[Tong]

Originally Posted by AkitoW013

Because he's truly good at it, he even fooled Nekone in the game, if he can fool her, he can fool everyone else.

Then, again, the anime didnt portray the "fakeness" accurately.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Were the twins supposed to disguise Haku's voice as well as his appearance? Because it should be pretty obvious that Haku's voice is different from Oshutoru's. Why didn't Kuon or any of the others catch that?

They did a pretty good job of it at the start of the episode. But....I guess the anime got lazy by the end? They wanted the main character's last words and speech of the show to sound like him? I don't know.

I'll presume he was supposed to sound like Oshutoru at the end, but for reasons the anime just didn't have him do it.

[ValvraveTruth]

Originally Posted by Tong

You do realize that in any serious discussion about anything related to the series, the source material/Visual Novel has much more weight than the animation right?

Yes there's no perfect adaptation, but the issue with Itsuwari no Kamen is that the core elements related to the characters and story (VERY important) were basically cut off to favor the fanservice. And with this, we have an adaptation that leaves much to be desired and that gives a completely different impression of the series to the viewer, that has never played the game.

This is why good and proper anime adaptations are important. Utawarerumono 1 was a good adaptation, for example. Itsuwari no Kamen is not.

What you said is not wrong.

I put it with there is 2 factions, one that follows the VN and one that only watched anime. I said "VN may comes first but they didn't say anything about the anime comes from the VN itself, both VN and anime comes from the one who wrote it."

You think Visual Novel=source material, but wrong and most people get it wrong which is common. VN is actually from source material or story script, not "equal", fit to the format of large information and gaming interaction. The same goes to anime pick from the story script itself which then change by the director and writer to fit what the watcher want. So no one ever said the anime story is from the VN or adaption. Because VN so well pack info with good stuff like character development to be able to warp the thinking of hardcore VN fans, which lead to "why this and why cut there". **light novel also has other saying, but leave it.

Applied to all animes, some i read light novel or VN way before the anime. I know what you mean when the anime is indeed silly compare to VN, but that just how it is. Can we really say it is not a good adaption when no one ever said the story will be the same as VN or comes from VN? Imagine the VN does not exist at all, without the heavy knowledge from VN, can the anime be a stand alone enough that the plot with no extra info for us to be able to understand the plot or what is going on?

How good an anime can be is not from how much it fully adapt, its about other stuff. Not me but Well i believe only those who doesn't know the actual info from VN can appreaciate how good the anime it is in some cases. Thats why i tried to rate anime based on just a simple watcher with no heavy info.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by AkitoW013

Because he's truly good at it, he even fooled Nekone in the game, if he can fool her, he can fool everyone else.

And the seiyuu are the same as the game? Because it was pretty obvious to me that wasn't Oshutoru's voice.

[AkitoW013]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

And the seiyuu are the same as the game? Because it was pretty obvious to me that wasn't Oshutoru's voice.

And yet, it works, don't thinks too much about it.

[Shadow5YA]

My complaint is that it clearly doesn't. If Haku's seiyuu couldn't imitate Oshutoru's voice properly, they could have gotten Oshutoru's seiyuu directly to voice Haku during the impersonation. It wouldn't even be difficult to explain it by stating that the twins' magic masked Haku's voice as well as his appearance.

[Klashikari]

This episode just couldn't save the series. Happened too late in the game and just showed just too little to boot.
The whole first half was painfully slow, while Oshutoru farewell was barely decent. It is just annoying to have a finale spent on just 2-3 shallow scenes while having absolutely 0 followup for the rest of the plot.
Also, yeah, it just doesn't make sense for Haku to be able to fool everyone if he kept his voice like that. The very moment "Oshutoru" talked, it was painfully obvious it was Haku speaking. As Shadow5YA said, if the twins could change Haku's appearance, why the hell did Haku keep the same voice?


Anyway, as someone who didn't play the game, I found quite obvious there was a lot of cut content considering the pacing was absolutely horrible. More than half of the series was plain filler, and the very few episodes dedicated to plots are simply not enough for what the series has implied. My main gripes with Itsuwari no Kamen:

-I honestly failed to see what people found interesting in Haku. Even though he isn't the same lazy bun as he was early, there wasn't any evident "talent" whatsoever with him, and this point is even worse if we compare that with Hakuorou

-The whole sibling subplot between the Emperor and Haku was just delivered as fast as it could be, with very little details or actual character introspection. In fact, the Emperor barely has any characterization besides his past, and just removing him from the plot this way didn't help. The series didn't bother explaining how he could survive this long, so it is difficult to understand why he died suddenly without any foreshadowing point whatsoever.

-Tuskuru side was pretty much glossed over.

-The conflict barely started and we got denied the rest of it.

This is that kind of adaptation that really shows how much a sloppy adaptation can hurt a series. No matter how a show must be appreciated for its own merits and demerits, the execution of such adaptation was nothing but sloppy in my books. It is exactly because it glossed over so many details that I just couldn't find that series interesting in comparison to the first Utawarerumono. Moreover, it is absolutely frustrating because its own merits are basically inexistent aside of the above average animation and seiyuu performances.

I guess it has to be expected from someone who is in charge of the direction yet didn't play the damn game.

Huge letdown, borderline a waste of time to me.

[Hiro Hayase]

Pretty much a disappointment, they cut out the best scene that probably transitions into the plot of the next game's installment. The scene with Kuon before she meets Oboro is not there. That scene was probably my strongest motivation for watching the anime and buying the next game.

Truthfully speaking, the first game also had a lackadaisical anime ending as they cut a key scene. I really dislike directors when they do that, even if they don't know if there will be sequels or not to their source materials, they should have kept some of those scenes as it really adds depth. Well half the anime was filler... should have cut back on that and saved those for ovas or special episodes.

At this point is it alright to share some of the spoilers or clips from the game? To give a good comparison of how lacking the ending was.