2008-08-07, 17:41 | Link #1301 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Well... the US *tries* to throw away such things.. .but it is an ongoing process and there are more than a few citizens who'd *like* to have a theocracy of sorts here.
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2008-08-07, 23:05 | Link #1304 | |
Mr. Awesome
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Underpants Gnome Factory
Age: 36
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The Iraq war was all about oil, most of the crap about it being the "right thing to do" was just bullshit to feed to international press. Now that american oil companys have taken over Iraq oil, Bush is happy. Last edited by Zoned87; 2008-08-07 at 23:36. |
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2008-08-08, 01:37 | Link #1305 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 28° 37', North ; 77° 13', East
Age: 33
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And thats just the point isnt it? When religion is 'mixed' with politics, its only because often mixing religion with politics works. You get support for it. While it may seem like the party is religiously motivated, thats hardly ever the case. While were on the topic, tactics like those are hardly restricted to religion. gathering support based on racial superiority, has been prevalent for a long time, and is still used, if you look into things enough.. Also, i hardly think the US is where it is because it didnt mix religion and politics. It probably has very little to do with why the US is a superpower now. If complete detachment of religion and politics is the key to success, tell me, why arnt the old communist countries the most powerful in the world? While i certainly dont condone the mixing of religion with any sort of government activity, there have been enough instances of parties with 'religious' campaigns, which have helped nations a great deal. Those 'inferior third world nations' which you mentioned, arnt third world nations because they mixed religion with politics. I suggest you look into why the majority of the world is in the state its in before throwing around statements like that |
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2008-08-08, 02:06 | Link #1306 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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The United States is the most successful country in the world because of our diversity in population. There is no other country with so many different types of immigrant waves throughout the last centuries. Also, Europe happened to destroy themselves in their world wars. Capitalism feeds off the poor countries, we built a fortune on the destruction of all these countries in Europe. Now we're a technological nation so we don't got to dump all our goods on someone like we did while we were an industrial or agricultural nation.
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2008-08-08, 02:18 | Link #1307 | |
Mr. Awesome
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Underpants Gnome Factory
Age: 36
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For instance IF a religious text said the world was flat, people in that country who said or tried to discover otherwise would be shunned or possibly imprisoned. Or perhaps in a muslim country suppose there was a woman who could have cured cancer, had she been allowed to attend school. But it never happened because the government mixed religion and politics. This is why countrys who do so will never become successful, all they can do is poorly attempt to copy what others have accomplished. Last edited by Zoned87; 2008-08-08 at 02:29. |
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2008-08-08, 03:51 | Link #1308 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 28° 37', North ; 77° 13', East
Age: 33
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I'm sorry.. what? what on earth do you mean? Last edited by oompa loompa; 2008-08-08 at 04:04. |
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2008-08-08, 04:32 | Link #1310 | ||
Banned
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For example, there is a long history in Pakistan of tribal councils (jirgas) deciding law in many villages., despite being almost completely unqaulified, uneducated in Islam, and more governed by tribal superstition than actual religious tenets. One example I can remember is when a dispute between two families (over a murder) was resolved by handing a teenage girl in marriage to a member of the victim family. Not only is this trading of women, and forced teen marriage offensive, I shudder to think how the girl would have been treated by her new in-laws, given the family feud. Another example of a shocking case: Quote:
My point is that when a large portion of the populace does have faith in religious law, the state is perhaps better served to regulate it so as to forestall other bodies/ people taking it into their own hands. I'm not entirely comfortable with that, but ground realities are ground realities. P.S: To be entirely fair to Pakistan, the judiciary did eventually take notice of both the above cases, and come to the aid of the victims. And I should emphasize, in both cases, the jirga acted completely contrary to any reasoned or scholarly view of Islam. |
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2008-08-08, 04:46 | Link #1312 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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And, realistically, mimicking the success of Western countries is not bad. In fact, most foreign aid sent to "underdeveloped" countries, seeks to instruct those various countries on how to advance their country's basic foundations in similar fashions to how Western countries have advanced themselves. China's drastic economic shift in the 1990s (under the leadership of the great if somewhat villainous Xiaoping Deng) was based partially on a combination of Eastern and Western economic reform... ...And this is getting really off topic. Nothing concerning law can ever be truly "fair" either. Both are man-made (or at least lead by man), so both are subject to subjectivity and change over time. |
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2008-08-08, 04:50 | Link #1314 | ||||
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But a state is shaped by it's people. If the people , or a large segment of society credit religious law, the state can't impose a different belief system from above. All it can do is make sure that the rights of minorities are protected, that personal vendettas are left out, and that any influence from religion is taken as fairly as possible. Sure , it can never be done perfectly, but as seen with crazies like Al-Qaeda or some of the examples I gave...........things could be much worse. Quote:
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Last edited by Amirali; 2008-08-08 at 06:55. |
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2008-08-08, 04:57 | Link #1315 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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----------------------- Separately -- Amirali1985 is contrasting theocracy to rule by unpleasant village elders with social customs from hell Under those conditions, certain types of religious rule might be a step up ... but often people have trouble distinguishing between what was sourced in religious principles and what is simply social taboo codified into the religion. I find it impossible to "respect" any social norms that justify "honor" killings or mistreatment of women, outsiders, etc.
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2008-08-08, 09:17 | Link #1317 | ||
Gregory House
IT Support
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2008-08-08, 12:20 | Link #1318 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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2008-08-08, 12:53 | Link #1319 | |
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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Wandering Knight:
Spoiler for because it's all off-topic:
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Spoiler for same reason:
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2008-08-08, 13:04 | Link #1320 | |
耳をすませば
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Age: 34
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not a debate, philosophy, religion |
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